Spurs v Newcastle (h) 19-20 Ratings and ramblings

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MOTM


  • Total voters
    53
You're Just a Shit Villa Re -run, shit Villa Re Run

As the title suggests, the similarities with our opening game against Villa were stark. A couple of curious selections - or lack thereof, an obdurate, organised deep block bus-park, a goal down against the run of play to some fucking sloppy defending, with two of the Villa culprits involved again, lots of possession and control and huffing and puffing, only this time there was no happy ending.

I know this is a familiar trope now, but as long as it's there every week, I can't ignore it any week. What Pochettino is seeing in Sissoko to think he should be playing in a midfield at this level is really hard to reconcile. Not someone who looks to get on the ball, actively avoids it under pressure, not someone with a 360 game head, not someone who is ever going to play a zippy, incisive pass and defensively he ambles around - as witnessed against Villa when they scored and again today where he just casually jogs over to Atsu and allows him time and space - and then swerves out the way of the ball - to pick the killer pass. Just grow some fucking bollocks Poch and play Skipp, the boys not scared of the fucking ball, can see a pass and presses much better than Sissoko.

I saw Winks getting the usual grief in the match thread, and I know he's not Pirlo or Modric, but he is compared to Sissoko. I've got no problem with the way Winks played today in terms of his remit, he got through an absolute shitload of ball - 134 passes 94% - and made 74 forward and only 21 back. 53 in the attacking third. Compare that with Sissoko who made 34 passes forward and 36 backwards. Yes, Winks isn't ever going to be Modric, but he is by a fucki g country mile not the biggest problem of the two players.

The main glaring omission was Eriksen. As someone pointed out in the match thread, it kind of defeats your attempt to finish with him before he finishes with you, if you have to keep begging him to go back out with you.

Either don't put him in the squad, or play him, because the team is more important than your pride, and this team will always be better with Eriksen than without him. And for those that said he deserved to be dropped after his non performance against ManC, well you could apply that to most of the team, particularly the likes of Kane and Sissoko. We all know that wasn't the reason Eriksen was on the bench.

The sloppiness that lead to their winner has become endemic, or even an epidemic under Pochettino, who once upon a time stood for much higher standards of diligence when it came to pressing, intensity and collective work ethic. This wasn't some fleet breakaway goal, like Villa, Newcastle were allowed to plop the ball around, as we lethargically jogged about, eventually it finds it's way to Atsu, Sissoko ambles nonchalantly toward him, no fucking hurry and stands about 3 yards off him making no attempt to press him or force him into doing something he doesn't want to do, meanwhile most of the defence has shuffled right, toward play, except Rose, who once again, a bit like against Villa, is doing his own thang, wandering lonely like a cloud. He hasn't read where the danger is and moved along with the rest of the defence, and has created a gaping gash of a chasm for their big fella to penetrate (ooohh matron see what I did there).

We weren't terrible, we had shitloads of the ball, lots of really inept huffing, puffing and bumbling in forward areas, plenty of head down scurrying, but without the likes of Eriksen, Ndombele, Lo Celso there was no one capable of getting their heads out of their arses long enough to make it count. As a result we created very few quality chances. A nice floated pass from KWP to Son was the sum total of chances actually created in the first half. Lo Celso's clever little through ball to Kane (that he made a bit of a mess of, but could well have had a penalty - I still can't decide) was probably the most incisive pass all day, followed by Eriksen's wonderful pass to Sissoko, which Sissoko defended really well for Newcastle.

But two shots on target against Newcastle at home, even a stubborn, obdurate Newcastle is pretty fucking poor.

The sooner Poch can figure out how to maximise the players he has at his disposal the better, because it feels like really a long time since that has happened.

It's a shame KWP got injured, he's needs a decent run of games, but if there's any silver lining it might be that this is the only way Poch is going to actually move Sissoko out of harms way - to fill in at RB - and to be fair going forward against a bus parker, that might just be the only place he actually could be of some use, the latter part of this game he ran at their LB and got crosses in. You'd still worry about his ability to defend as a Rb though, and the clown boots he wears will cause havoc in our box inevitably.

Individual

Lloris - Not much to do really.

KWP - Was doing OK, created our only real chance until Eriksen and Lo Celso came on.

Alderweireld - OK

Sanchez - OK

Rose - Pretty poor defensively for the goal, and offered virtually nothing offensively.

Winks - He's not Modric or Pirlo, but he's not the biggest problem we have by a long way.

Sissoko - Brings nothing as a CM, and was piss fucking poor for their goal. Was actually half-decent the last 15 minutes as a right winger, and put in a couple of decent crosses.

Moura - Bumbled. Cruyff turn, crowd cheers, he then proceeds to run the ball straight into Newcastle legs. Him in a nutshell. Did play a nice ball to put Sissoko in behind his full back, but that's scant return creatively for 95 minutes work, and he also wasted two great chances.

Son - Bumbled.

Lamela - Bumbled. he works hard, offers himself up to receive, but has the composure of a gazelle on a PCP enema. Can do good things but does a lot of careless shit too.

Kane - Meh. Not always easy when the game is compressed like this for the CF to influence things, but the two great chances he had he made a bit of a mess of. I know you could argue for a pen, and it would have been a fair call, but likewise, you could see him diving into it, when IMO, he should have looked to stay on his feet and get a shot off. Apart from that he didn't really influence much and didn't really lead the press from the front brilliantly either.

Lo Celso/Eriksen - we definitely looked more purposeful and composed when these two came on, and both nearly unlocked the defence with the type of passes we hadn't seen previously.
 
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There was no motm in that game. Couldnt give anyone higher than a 4, except maybe Lloris who had jackshit to do so him by default. Fair assessments but have to disagree with the "we weren't terrible bit". I thought we were abysmal, I really did. So depressing.
 
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Yes, Sissoko should have closed down the player for the goal and it's also true that Danny should of been alive to the danger but Sanchez was awful for the goal.

He sees the forward, points at him, then gets drawn towards the ball where there is absolutely no danger whatsoever, and then allows the attacker to drift off him.
The ONLY danger in that situation is the attacker who scored, to allow him to drift off you is criminal.

Our front 4 were abysmal (the worst I've ever seen Kane play) and even when Lo Celso and Eriksen were introduced they didn't affect the game in any way.

it has to be said our best chances came from crosses/pull backs from the right hand side after Sissoko was moved to RB.
 
If Nobody had been an option i would have voted for that.

I voted for Lamela though, not because he was good, he was bloody awful. But you can't accuse him of not running his guts out. Unlike most of them who barely broke out of a jog yesterday.
 
I said in the match thread after team announced that it was the wrong team and we would not score in first hour. Gives me no pleasure to be right. The players just kept passing sideways to keep possession and not take responsibility. Sissoko not suited to these matches as has no skills. Ok when needed to fight in midfield. Was better when RB. Vertonghen, Davies, Dier and Eriksen should have played. Would have got them match fit and Vertonghen and Davies better positioning would have saved goal. After the high of watching the cricket, this was a damp squid and needs to be quickly forgotten.
 
You're Just a Shit Villa Re -run, shit Villa Re Run

As the title suggests, the similarities with our opening game against Villa were stark. A couple of curious selections - or lack thereof, an obdurate, organised deep block bus-park, a goal down against the run of play to some fucking sloppy defending, with two of the Villa culprits involved again, lots of possession and control and huffing and puffing, only this time there was no happy ending.

I know this is a familiar trope now, but as long as it's there every week, I can't ignore it any week. What Pochettino is seeing in Sissoko to think he should be playing in a midfield at this level is really hard to reconcile. Not someone who looks to get on the ball, actively avoids it under pressure, not someone with a 360 game head, not someone who is ever going to play a zippy, incisive pass and defensively he ambles around - as witnessed against Villa when they scored and again today where he just casually jogs over to Atsu and allows him time and space - and then swerves out the way of the ball - to pick the killer pass. Just grow some fucking bollocks Poch and play Skipp, the boys not scared of the fucking ball, can see a pass and presses much better than Sissoko.

I saw Winks getting the usual grief in the match thread, and I know he's not Pirlo or Modric, but he is compared to Sissoko. I've got no problem with the way Winks played today in terms of his remit, he got through an absolute shitload of ball - 134 passes 94% - and made 74 forward and only 21 back. 53 in the attacking third. Compare that with Sissoko who made 34 passes forward and 36 backwards. Yes, Winks isn't ever going to be Modric, but he is by a fucki g country mile not the biggest problem of the two players.

The main glaring omission was Eriksen. As someone pointed out in the match thread, it kind of defeats your attempt to finish with him before he finishes with you, if you have to keep begging him to go back out with you.

Either don't put him in the squad, or play him, because the team is more important than your pride, and this team will always be better with Eriksen than without him. And for those that said he deserved to be dropped after his non performance against ManC, well you could apply that to most of the team, particularly the likes of Kane and Sissoko. We all know that wasn't the reason Eriksen was on the bench.

The sloppiness that lead to their winner has become endemic, or even an epidemic under Pochettino, who once upon a time stood for much higher standards of diligence when it came to pressing, intensity and collective work ethic. This wasn't some fleet breakaway goal, like Villa, Newcastle were allowed to plop the ball around, as we lethargically jogged about, eventually it finds it's way to Atsu, Sissoko ambles nonchalantly toward him, no fucking hurry and stands about 3 yards off him making no attempt to press him or force him into doing something he doesn't want to do, meanwhile most of the defence has shuffled right, toward play, except Rose, who once again, a bit like against Villa, is doing his own thang, wandering lonely like a cloud. He hasn't read where the danger is and moved along with the rest of the defence, and has created a gaping gash of a chasm for their big fella to penetrate (ooohh matron see what I did there).

We weren't terrible, we had shitloads of the ball, lots of really inept huffing, puffing and bumbling in forward areas, plenty of head down scurrying, but without the likes of Eriksen, Ndombele, Lo Celso there was no one capable of getting their heads out of their arses long enough to make it count. As a result we created very few quality chances. A nice floated pass from KWP to Son was the sum total of chances actually created in the first half. Lo Celso's clever little through ball to Kane (that he made a bit of a mess of, but could well have had a penalty - I still can't decide) was probably the most incisive pass all day, followed by Eriksen's wonderful pass to Sissoko, which Sissoko defended really well for Newcastle.

But two shots on target against Newcastle at home, even a stubborn, obdurate Newcastle is pretty fucking poor.

The sooner Poch can figure out how to maximise the players he has at his disposal the better, because it feels like really a long time since that has happened.

It's a shame KWP got injured, he's needs a decent run of games, but if there's any silver lining it might be that this is the only way Poch is going to actually move Sissoko out of harms way - to fill in at RB - and to be fair going forward against a bus parker, that might just be the only place he actually could be of some use, the latter part of this game he ran at their LB and got crosses in. You'd still worry about his ability to defend as a Rb though, and the clown boots he wears will cause havoc in our box inevitably.

Individual

Lloris - Not much to do really.

KWP - Was doing OK, created our only real chance until Eriksen and Lo Celso came on.

Alderweireld - OK

Sanchez - OK

Rose - Pretty poor defensively for the goal, and offered virtually nothing offensively.

Winks - He's not Modric or Pirlo, but he's not the biggest problem we have by a long way.

Sissoko - Brings nothing as a CM, and was piss fucking poor for their goal. Was actually half-decent the last 15 minutes as a right winger, and put in a couple of decent crosses.

Moura - Bumbled. Cruyff turn, crowd cheers, he then proceeds to run the ball straight into Newcastle legs. Him in a nutshell. Did play a nice ball to put Sissoko in behind his full back, but that's scant return creatively for 95 minutes work, and he also wasted two great chances.

Son - Bumbled.

Lamela - Bumbled. he works hard, offers himself up to receive, but has the composure of a gazelle on a PCP enema. Can do good things but does a lot of careless shit too.

Kane - Meh. Not always easy when the game is compressed like this for the CF to influence things, but the two great chances he had he made a bit of a mess of. I know you could argue for a pen, and it would have been a fair call, but likewise, you could see him diving into it, when IMO, he should have looked to stay on his feet and get a shot off. Apart from that he didn't really influence much and didn't really lead the press from the front brilliantly either.

Lo Celso/Eriksen - we definitely looked more purposeful and composed when these two came on, and both nearly unlocked the defence with the type of passes we hadn't seen previously.

Very good summary . However, I don’t agree that Alderweireld and Sanchez were ok. I think they are a very suspect combination . It’s all very well to blame Sissoko and Rose for the goal , but just like against Villa our central defenders were nowhere to be seen. It’s good to see them coming forward but they really don’t offer anything in that regard, just ambling around with no urgency or desire to get back when necessary. just like most of the rest. It’s a total mystery why Vertonghen is not playing . He is our best defender and is also left sided which the other 2 are not. We made the mistake of playing them together at Woolwich last year and conceded 4 . I hope Poch doesn’t make the same mistake again.
 
Very good summary . However, I don’t agree that Alderweireld and Sanchez were ok. I think they are a very suspect combination . It’s all very well to blame Sissoko and Rose for the goal , but just like against Villa our central defenders were nowhere to be seen. It’s good to see them coming forward but they really don’t offer anything in that regard, just ambling around with no urgency or desire to get back when necessary. just like most of the rest. It’s a total mystery why Vertonghen is not playing . He is our best defender and is also left sided which the other 2 are not. We made the mistake of playing them together at Woolwich last year and conceded 4 . I hope Poch doesn’t make the same mistake again.

We played Foyth/Vert in that game.

If Toby as our senior CB can't martial the backline, I think Dav deserves a break tbf.... He's treated like a 2nd-stringer who get's dropped at a whim so it's not fair to expect him to have the nous of a first teamer IMO.

The Vert mystery:

 
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We played Foyth/Vert in that game.

If Toby as our senior CB can't martial the backline, I think Dav deserve a break tbf.... He's treated like a 2nd-stringer who get's dropped at a whim so it's not fair to expect him to have the nous of a first teamer IMO.

The Vert mystery:


The story I heard/read (can’t remember where now) was that it wasn’t just about Vertonghen not being in peak fitness, it was that when Poch confronted Vertonghen about it, Vertonghen reacted badly to being told and they had a bit of set to.
 
The story I heard/read (can’t remember where now) was that it wasn’t just about Vertonghen not being in peak fitness, it was that when Poch confronted Vertonghen about it, Vertonghen reacted badly to being told and they had a bit of set to.

There's probably a few wilder theories floating about(*)... As always, curiously few of them make it outside of the twitter realm (Bit like all these additional comments Eriksen & his family are alleged to have made that the national press haven't seen fit to quote.)

(*Taking that story on face value tho; Vert needs to wind his neck in, apologise and work himself back into the first team reckoning.....)

Got some guy here currently telling us that a "credible SC ITK" has declared Poch has lost the dressing room, yet you'd assume the national shit-rags would be all over that like a rash.



Good news is that the assembled TalkSport throng... Danny Kelly, Durham, Simon Jordan and a couple of their mainstream media 'experts' all think our other rivals for top 4 are just as shit as us for one reason or another; the projection being we're in for another season like last season.

 
Sissoko was hideous, but Kane was the worst player on the entire pitch, I don’t know what’s happening with him at the moment but our tactics (or lack there of) aren’t helping
 
Sissoko was hideous, but Kane was the worst player on the entire pitch, I don’t know what’s happening with him at the moment but our tactics (or lack there of) aren’t helping

Has he actually had a top performance in a 2xST system?
 
Everton away last season came to mind instantly.

Few and far between though as we don't tend to play 2xST system and if we do, not with two actual strikers.

Diamond; 2 up top.... Be that Lucas or Son & Kane; I assumed it was obvious what I meant....
 
Diamond; 2 up top.... Be that Lucas or Son & Kane; I assumed it was obvious what I meant....

It was obvious what you meant - but I don't consider Lucas or Son as strikers. So it's hard to judge Kane's performances in a 2xST system when he's not actually being played with two strikers, instead two wingers who can score goals. Wouldn't be against pushing Dele up though if we play a formation like that and keep him close to Kane

Kane has been partnered with Adebayor, Soldado, Janssen and Llorente in terms of actual strikers since he broke through under Pochettino.

Here are the stats when he's partnered all:

With Adebayor, they started 2 games together and between them scored 3 goals. All coming in one game from Kane in the Europa League, where he also famously went in goal.

With Soldado, they started 8 games together and between them scored 7 goals - not actually a bad record, I think the issue was Kane tended to play #10 when they were partnered and I think Poch wanted to build his own younger team with Kane leading the line.

With Janssen, they started 2 games together and between them scored 2 goals. I do seem to remember quite a few games when Janssen was brought on in games to partner Kane though and Kane would drop a bit deeper to accommodate Janssen leading the line.

With Llorente, they started 3 games together and scored 3 goals between them. But there were PLENTY of times when Llorente came on to partner Kane in games, most notably where he set up Kane to net an important goal against PSV on route to our CL final last season.


Just going off pure stats, you could say 15 goals in 15 starts between Kane and his striker partner is a pretty good return - but in all honesty I cannot remember 3/4s of those games in which he was partnered and in the majority of those games, HE was the one scoring the goals and I wouldn't be able to tell you if he played well in those games with his partner or if it was those Kane performances where he doesn't do much but then scores.
 
It was obvious what you meant - but I don't consider Lucas or Son as strikers. So it's hard to judge Kane's performances in a 2xST system when he's not actually being played with two strikers, instead two wingers who can score goals. Wouldn't be against pushing Dele up though if we play a formation like that and keep him close to Kane

Kane has been partnered with Adebayor, Soldado, Janssen and Llorente in terms of actual strikers since he broke through under Pochettino.

Here are the stats when he's partnered all:

With Adebayor, they started 2 games together and between them scored 3 goals. All coming in one game from Kane in the Europa League, where he also famously went in goal.

With Soldado, they started 8 games together and between them scored 7 goals - not actually a bad record, I think the issue was Kane tended to play #10 when they were partnered and I think Poch wanted to build his own younger team with Kane leading the line.

With Janssen, they started 2 games together and between them scored 2 goals. I do seem to remember quite a few games when Janssen was brought on in games to partner Kane though and Kane would drop a bit deeper to accommodate Janssen leading the line.

With Llorente, they started 3 games together and scored 3 goals between them. But there were PLENTY of times when Llorente came on to partner Kane in games, most notably where he set up Kane to net an important goal against PSV on route to our CL final last season.


Just going off pure stats, you could say 15 goals in 15 starts between Kane and his striker partner is a pretty good return - but in all honesty I cannot remember 3/4s of those games in which he was partnered and in the majority of those games, HE was the one scoring the goals and I wouldn't be able to tell you if he played well in those games with his partner or if it was those Kane performances where he doesn't do much but then scores.

The data is interesting, but gain, I thought/hoped it was obvious where I was coming from.... If not my bad...

It's generally accepted that since the start of last season Poch has been trying to play with a second goalscorer through the center alongside Kane (442, 41212)... A period which roughly coincides with what many now perceive to be a 'new' Kane where (related or otherwise) he's been accused of being a less dynamic/influential presence.

By playing well, I meant in terms of game-play over the 90m as opposed to vindicating his selection with a finish (or 2).

I'm not for a second, taking his goal-scoring output for granted, but it just feels a while (for me) since we've seen one of those "complete forward" performances that got the fanbase cooing about him being the best ST in the world.

Of course, I'm more than open to the factor of his injuries too, but just curious how long others felt he's been less than that beast of a player.
 
Everyone was awful yesterday.

Kane 3 (No show)
Son 5 (Tested the keeper a couple of times)
Lamela 3 (Was a headless chicken)
Moura 4 (Missed 2 chances for goal)
Eriksen 6 (Eriksen > Lamela)
KWP 6 (Played well while he was on)
Rose 3 (Looked lost)
lloris 5
Lo Celso 5
Sanchez 5
Toby 6
Winks 4

Frustrating game.......
 
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