Spurs vs Fulham (a) 04.12.13

[Lister]

I am not anti AVB and agree ( when he gate it right ) he seems the real deal. Read my threads and I have whole hearterly supported him. But! ...As a manager who has never played top flight football, this has to effect players in accepting him in the dressing room when he's motivating them?

Honestly I think not. How many players knew what a good (or not?) player their manager was back in the day?

Very few Id Imagine.

Do you think Januzai is sitting in training at Utd looking at Moyes thinking "I remember you, what a player! Im going to try extra hard today!". Has it held Mourinho back? Converseley, did it help the likes of Hoddle (often accused of terrible man management for showing off as the best player there...)?

I think players respect someone who clearly knows what they are doing and gets them engaged in the job. Makes training fun, supports them... and most importantly makes a winning team (a bit chicken and egg I realise).

Do that and your history wont matter at all. AVB has spent years working within the game, Mourinho had him on his staff - Im sure no mugs make it that far - and has now spent a few years learning to manage. From recent history he is also a winner, of a treble, which while "it was only Porto" the players WILL know of and recognise.

He obviously has much to learn still, but Id say he is where he is on merit and the players have no issue with his background.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

Just glad we won, especially after going one down - that's my critique in a nutshell!

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Honestly I think not. How many players knew what a good (or not?) player their manager was back in the day?

Very few Id Imagine.

.

Its not about how good or bad the player were in their day, although it helps. It's about the feeling for the game; the passion, the drive, the motivating of players, understanding the ebbs and flows of a game, how it feels to be dropped, the understanding of a season long campaign, turning professional, training hard...etc... In essence how a player ticks, how a team thinks, how a club works.
All this needs to be experienced as an individual professional player in the mists of battle, not from a text manual for football managers. Players must question his passage to management (when he is motivating them) which, he has never played within that system?
(hands up who would have Klinsmann at Spurs right now replacing AVB)

For the record, I am not wanting him to leave but am at a point with him, I am questioning his ability. I hope he proves me wrong. because all I want is for Spurs is to be successful.

I learn football, I learned it from a book!

 

[Lister]

In any business management is a skill. My last manager had not a clue how I did what I did and he had my absolute respect because he was excellent at his job. He didnt need to have done do what I do in order to manage me and get the best from me.

AVB has worked in football for 15 years. He has actively trained, coached and managed players. He has been in and around clubs the whole time. He did not pick up a book, get an online diploma and then a job managing Spurs.

Even without being a player Im quite sure he understands football and footballers a hell of a lot better than we do.

I think this concern about his lack of playing is a red herring, to be honest. I think its a problem you have in your mind, not one he has to actually deal with.

 

[jimmyriggle]

Its not about how good or bad the player were in their day, although it helps. It's about the feeling for the game; the passion, the drive, the motivating of players, understanding the ebbs and flows of a game, how it feels to be dropped, the understanding of a season long campaign, turning professional, training hard...etc... In essence how a player ticks, how a team thinks, how a club works.
All this needs to be experienced as an individual professional player in the mists of battle, not from a text manual for football managers. Players must question his passage to management (when he is motivating them) which, he has never played within that system?
(hands up who would have Klinsmann at Spurs right now replacing AVB)

For the record, I am not wanting him to leave but am at a point with him, I am questioning his ability. I hope he proves me wrong. because all I want is for Spurs is to be successful.

I learn football, I learned it from a book!

Isn't that where here Freud comes in though? Plus he's actually won international and European honours AND played for Spurs.

 

[Dan D]

watch again Vlad goals for Steaua last season from long distance (except the goal from 1:14 of the video, "bycicle kick" at 2:17 goal vs Ajax ,with right foot (25 meters),also the goal from 3:25 (right foot) (25-27 meters) ,the goal (left foot) vs Fulham was amazing too...

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Honestly I think not. How many players knew what a good (or not?) player their manager was back in the day?

Very few Id Imagine.

Do you think Januzai is sitting in training at Utd looking at Moyes thinking "I remember you, what a player! Im going to try extra hard today!". Has it held Mourinho back? Converseley, did it help the likes of Hoddle (often accused of terrible man management for showing off as the best player there...)?

I think players respect someone who clearly knows what they are doing and gets them engaged in the job. Makes training fun, supports them... and most importantly makes a winning team (a bit chicken and egg I realise).

Do that and your history wont matter at all. AVB has spent years working within the game, Mourinho had him on his staff - Im sure no mugs make it that far - and has now spent a few years learning to manage. From recent history he is also a winner, of a treble, which while "it was only Porto" the players WILL know of and recognise.

He obviously has much to learn still, but Id say he is where he is on merit and the players have no issue with his background.

Another point I want to add was AVB inherited a good side at Porto that was already winning La Liga. Its like Strachen, O'Neil, etc... at Celtic.

 

[Lister]

Another point I want to add was AVB inherited a good side at Porto that was already winning La Liga. Its like Strachen, O'Neil, etc... at Celtic.

Which is fair to a degree. As i recall they had won 3 or 4 out of 5 championships when he took over.
If you look into it though, he set records, and won a treble there. Which is some way beyond what is to be expected.

A whole season unbeaten, bags of goals, the europa league...

 

[Mr S Pippo]

I do accept the boy done well at Porto and he can use that experience in his career . There is room for talented individuals without footballing background to manage teams sucessfully. Just hope AVB is a leader in this area.
Sometimes a managers job is to reel players in that are bigger than their over coloured boots. Again I'm not sure if he has that skill, to be ruthless (Chelshite). Saying that, all players at spurs at the moment all seem nice guys, which should suit him.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Isn't that where here Freud comes in though? Plus he's actually won international and European honours AND played for Spurs.

As long as the players/staff believe in AVBs philosophy of football and this transpires into winning performances, Im (all) will be happy. I'm just not sure if the players are performing at their best? If not, why?

 

[Gb160]

Another point I want to add was AVB inherited a good side at Porto that was already winning La Liga. Its like Strachen, O'Neil, etc... at Celtic.

Porto finished third in the league the season before AVB took over, and thats with Hulk and Falcao in the side.
Porto fans always have very high expectations, but what he achieved in that season even blew them away.
Its fucking lazy to dismiss what he achieved.

 

[Mad Yid]

Porto finished third in the league the season before AVB took over, and thats with Hulk and Falcao in the side.
Porto fans always have very high expectations, but what he achieved in that season even blew them away.
Its fucking lazy to dismiss what he achieved there.

the Portuguese league is far more competitive than the Scottish league too

 

[Lister]

I do accept the boy done well at Porto and he can use that experience in his career . There is room for talented individuals without footballing background to manage teams sucessfully. Just hope AVB is a leader in this area.
Sometimes a managers job is to reel players in that are bigger than their over coloured boots. Again I'm not sure if he has that skill, to be ruthless (Chelshite). Saying that, all players at spurs at the moment all seem nice guys, which should suit him.

I dont think he is perfect, and any valid critisism is welcome as far as Im concerned.

I do think it is clear he has plenty to learn.

However, there is little to support the idea his lack of playing career is hampering his relationship with the players. Or indeed the failure at Chelsea.

It always seems to me he has the players well onside with him, which is a huge plus point. The feeling in the group os good, and he has much to do with that.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

Wenger didn't play much football AFAIK, nor did Mourinho.
Woolwich's greatest ever manager was arguably Herbert Chapman, he didn't play much football, Bertie Mee who took Woolwich to their first double played even less.

 

[ArtyB]

Wenger didn't play much football AFAIK, nor did Mourinho.
Woolwich's greatest ever manager was arguably Herbert Chapman, he didn't play much football, Bertie Mee who took Woolwich to their first double played even less.

Chapman played for Spurs for a couple of seasons.

 

[Mensa]

For the billionth time, whether they once played or not, whether a club has a strategy of sticking with a manager or changing every 6 months, whether foreign or english there is no formula - its about whether AVB is right for Tottenham right now

I think he does have the players, people are missing the point, their frustration is clearly that they are underperforming and know they can do better, thats why it looks a little gloomy, just because a team not winning every week does not mean they hate the manager

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

Chapman played for Spurs for a couple of seasons.

Didn't know that. I guess we were in the second division then. But anyway, scrub Chapman from that comment. But the Wenger Mourinho and Mee points still stand, AFAIK.

Of course it's great if a manager has played football at a high level for a substantial amount of time, but the above three managers, AFAIK, didn't do so and were/are massively successful.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I dont think he is perfect, and any valid critisism is welcome as far as Im concerned.

I do think it is clear he has plenty to learn.

However, there is little to support the idea his lack of playing career is hampering his relationship with the players. Or indeed the failure at Chelsea.

It always seems to me he has the players well onside with him, which is a huge plus point. The feeling in the group os good, and he has much to do with that.

In fact the only evidence available suggests that he has always had the players support since his arrival. A number of players have actually made direct refference to AVB as adding to their game and many have subtlety talked about his training methods as better than Redknaps for example. There has not been a single comment from a player to suggest otherwise, this includes players that have left. Huddlestone made a few rumbles, but put out a tweet to clarify he was misquoted, he didn't need to do that.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Wenger didn't play much football AFAIK, nor did Mourinho.
Woolwich's greatest ever manager was arguably Herbert Chapman, he didn't play much football, Bertie Mee who took Woolwich to their first double played even less.

But they played. They lived and breathed football at the grass roots.

Porto finished third in the league the season before AVB took over, and thats with Hulk and Falcao in the side.
Porto fans always have very high expectations, but what he achieved in that season even blew them away.
Its fucking lazy to dismiss what he achieved.

Who is being lazy and dismissing it? They won their domestic trophy, as usual. They were achieving the double fairly regular and have won the league after he has left. He went one step further by winning a cup in EL, all in one season -well done/credit where credit is due. Why are we being told to give him time when he has achieved all this? is he able to build a team. Porto was well established as a side?

 

[pleb]

He will get us there, fully believe that.