Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
We've had young players leave for less.
Have any of them come through and gone on to anything of note? And would you prefer players without the character to be up for the fight to hang around? Leaving displays a lack of fight and/or recognition they aren't good enough.

Plus on this very page - we've got clips of Lamptey, who LEFT Chelsea to get games.
...because he could not oust James from the position. I could be mistaken but this is exactly how it is supposed to go, survival of the fittest. They earn their right to play and not just hang around like a bad stench waiting to be handed games like it's a charity. Do I have that wrong?
 
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Totti

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Have any of them come through and gone on to anything of note? And would you prefer players without the character to be up for the fight to hang around? Leaving displays a lack of fight and/or recognition they aren't good enough.
Veljkovic has gone on to make 100 Bundesliga appearance and play at a World Cup
Madueke has gone on to make Eredivisie appearances for PSV at 17 years of age.
Edwards is rumoured to be on his way back here.

Then there's also Bennett and Binks who both left, presumably because they didn't see a route into the starting eleven or even the squad no matter how hard they probably worked.

Surely the point is to limit the amount of potentially good youngsters from slipping through because we're not providing them with a platform to succeed here?

And succeed doesn't necessarily mean starting eleven, go on to be a club legend and become an England regular - success from academy is to provide depth for your first team, come in to do a job when needed, save us milions and potentially earn us millions.

We lost Madueke, Edwards, Veljkovic, Bennetts, Onomah for peanuts when with game time, loans at key development stages, could have seen us either see players fill out our squad and save millions on shit like Nkoudou, Stambouli etc. and earn a lot more if we eventually went on to sell.

Bentaleb and Mason are huge adverts for that. £16,000,000 and £13,000,000 we got for then didn't we?

...because he could not oust James from the position. I could be mistaken but this is exactly how it is supposed to go, survival of the fittest. They earn their right to play and not just hang around like a bad stench waiting to be handed games like it's a charity. Do I have that wrong?
But James was IN that position. Neither Cirkin or this young Palace guy would be.

I just don't necessarily see the point in seeing a talented HG youth left back fight it out with a newly signed young left back to sit on the bench behind Davies (or a new left back) - when it should be our talented young HG youth left back fighting Davies or our new left back for a starting place.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
Veljkovic has gone on to make 100 Bundesliga appearance and play at a World Cup
Madueke has gone on to make Eredivisie appearances for PSV at 17 years of age.
Edwards is rumoured to be on his way back here.

Then there's also Bennett and Binks who both left, presumably because they didn't see a route into the starting eleven or even the squad no matter how hard they probably worked.

Surely the point is to limit the amount of potentially good youngsters from slipping through because we're not providing them with a platform to succeed here?

And succeed doesn't necessarily mean starting eleven, go on to be a club legend and become an England regular - success from academy is to provide depth for your first team, come in to do a job when needed, save us milions and potentially earn us millions.

We lost Madueke, Edwards, Veljkovic, Bennetts, Onomah for peanuts when with game time, loans at key development stages, could have seen us either see players fill out our squad and save millions on shit like Nkoudou, Stambouli etc. and earn a lot more if we eventually went on to sell.

Bentaleb and Mason are huge adverts for that. £16,000,000 and £13,000,000 we got for then didn't we?
None of these players are on to anything 'of note'. I've seen Veljkovic play. In fact, he will be turning out for Bremen today in the relegation playoff. He is not good enough and neither were or probably are any of these others and that is why they are gone. Bennetts is at OL right? Did not get a lookin in a shitty OL team after they lost Depay.

These are not players to be concerned about losing when an apparently better player is available. This is meritocracy. If you are better then you play. Why is this so hard to understand for Academy watchers?

But James was IN that position. Neither Cirkin or this young Palace guy would be.
No, James was at Wigan and only got the position this season. All the while Lamptey had a free run to place himself in the minds of the Chelsea hierarchy with his performances for the u23 and then in direct competition this season. He didn't and went out to BHA in Jan 2020 when the realization hit.

I just don't necessarily see the point in seeing a talented HG youth left back fight it out with a newly signed young left back to sit on the bench behind Davies (or a new left back) - when it should be our talented young HG youth left back fighting Davies or our new left back for a starting place.
That's because it would be hard to see the point when you frame it like this. It should be talented player fights it out with another 2 talented players and the best player will get the start - meritocracy. Talent and performance wins and not emotional appeal to 'one of our own'. If one of our own wants to play then they should be the best for the job. that's how we get better. I bet chelsea has no problem with how Lamptey is playing. More money they'll get for xfer. Now, if only KWP who folks wanted to give minutes could perform similarly then we'd make more money. Exactly how the academy is supposed to work. And if he kills it then perhaps he gets a lookin.
 
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Totti

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None of these players are on to anything 'of note'. I've seen Veljkovic play. In fact, he will be turning out for Bremen today in the relegation playoff. He is not good enough and neither were or probably are any of these others and that is why they are gone. Bennetts is at OL right? Did not get a lookin in a shitty OL team after they lost Depay.

These are not players to be concerned about losing when an apparently better player is available. This is meritocracy. If you are better then you play. Why is this so hard to understand for Academy watchers?


No, James was at Wigan and only got the position this season. All the while Lamptey had a free run to place himself in the minds of the Chelsea hierarchy with his performances for the u23 and then in direct competition this season. He didn't and went out to BHA in Jan 2020 when the realization hit.


That's because it would be hard to see the point when you frame it like this. It should be talented player fights it out with another 2 talented players and the best player will get the start - meritocracy. Talent and performance wins and not emotional appeal to 'one of our own'. If one of our own wants to play then they should be the best for the job. that's how we get better. I bet chelsea has no problem with how Lamptey is playing. More money they'll get for xfer. Now, if only KWP who folks wanted to give minutes could perform similarly then we'd make more money. Exactly how the academy is supposed to work. And if he kills it then perhaps he gets a lookin.
No of course not - but all could either have been useful for our team instead of millions we wasted of we could have fetched more for them by developing them correctly.

Bennett is at Gladbach and recently made his Bundesliga debut after a horrible time with injuries.

We'll have to agree to disagree. You think signing a younger at left back, to compete with our youngster who gets no game time as it is, is good business. I personally think it isn't and we should be looking to sign a replacement for Davies instead.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
No of course not - but all could either have been useful for our team instead of millions we wasted of we could have fetched more for them by developing them correctly.
Like I've pointed out in a previous post these are two independent decision and should not be linked. The identification of an academy player not being good enough should not be used to evaluate the decision to sign an outside player that isn't good enough. The first decision has always been good in the examples you've chosen but the breakdown is on the other side. Says we have to fix the outside scouting not the inside talent evaluation.

Bennett is at Gladbach and recently made his Bundesliga debut after a horrible time with injuries.
My bad. Kenan? Whose the guy at OL that went last summer?

You think signing a younger at left back, to compete with our youngster who gets no game time as it is, is good business.
Nope, I think the potential signing of a better LB than our youngster is good business. And if they are doing it then this seems the calculus.

I personally think it isn't and we should be looking to sign a replacement for Davies instead.
Maybe he is that replacement. Would that change your mind?
 
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None of these players are on to anything 'of note'. I've seen Veljkovic play. In fact, he will be turning out for Bremen today in the relegation playoff. He is not good enough and neither were or probably are any of these others and that is why they are gone. Bennetts is at OL right? Did not get a lookin in a shitty OL team after they lost Depay.

These are not players to be concerned about losing when an apparently better player is available. This is meritocracy. If you are better then you play. Why is this so hard to understand for Academy watchers?


No, James was at Wigan and only got the position this season. All the while Lamptey had a free run to place himself in the minds of the Chelsea hierarchy with his performances for the u23 and then in direct competition this season. He didn't and went out to BHA in Jan 2020 when the realization hit.


That's because it would be hard to see the point when you frame it like this. It should be talented player fights it out with another 2 talented players and the best player will get the start - meritocracy. Talent and performance wins and not emotional appeal to 'one of our own'. If one of our own wants to play then they should be the best for the job. that's how we get better. I bet chelsea has no problem with how Lamptey is playing. More money they'll get for xfer. Now, if only KWP who folks wanted to give minutes could perform similarly then we'd make more money. Exactly how the academy is supposed to work. And if he kills it then perhaps he gets a lookin.

As you well know, meritocracy can be heavily biased when money becomes involved - once teams start purchasing players, they tend to not want to see that money go to waste, much easier to not take a risk on on academy player who has cost nothing in fee and peanuts in wages, than not take the risk on the investment and see it's value decrease exponentially.

Plenty of the players you have recommended have taken more than a season of experience to start showing viability as well. How does an academy get that opportunity if clubs pay money for players in their position.

Kyle Naughton and Adam Smith would be a great example. Was Naughton better than Smith (a player you chose in your DOF I think?) but the club and it's managers were more willing to risk the signing so Smith left before getting a chance.
 
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Angel Gomes an interesting one seeing a season he apparently made his debut under Mourinho at Man U. Wonder if we are sniffing about


Gomes is the headline act in terms of the players set to bid farewell to United. There will be many at the club who are saddened by the 19-year-old's imminent departure, given his obvious ability, having been tipped for a big Old Trafford future. But he wants more assurances over playing time and will seek a new club.

Having made his debut in May 2017 under Jose Mourinho, Gomes hasn't risen as quickly as some imagined into the United first team. He's only made six first team appearances under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer this season.

Left-back pair Borthwick-Jackson and Mitchell both depart too, having appeared close to the United first team at one stage.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question


Gomes is the headline act in terms of the players set to bid farewell to United. There will be many at the club who are saddened by the 19-year-old's imminent departure, given his obvious ability, having been tipped for a big Old Trafford future. But he wants more assurances over playing time and will seek a new club.

Having made his debut in May 2017 under Jose Mourinho, Gomes hasn't risen as quickly as some imagined into the United first team. He's only made six first team appearances under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer this season.

Left-back pair Borthwick-Jackson and Mitchell both depart too, having appeared close to the United first team at one stage.
I just read he's going to Chelsea. I wonder if their supporters are concerned about the youngster they already have in that position. I bet not but then again perhaps that mindset is why their back to kicking our asses again.
 
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I just read he's going to Chelsea. I wonder if their supporters are concerned about the youngster they already have in that position. I bet not but then again perhaps that mindset is why their back to kicking our asses again.
I've read he's not going to Chelsea.



"I can elaborate to the point that it's never been mentioned on my end. That's it," said Lampard.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
As you well know, meritocracy can be heavily biased when money becomes involved - once teams start purchasing players, they tend to not want to see that money go to waste, much easier to not take a risk on on academy player who has cost nothing in fee and peanuts in wages, than not take the risk on the investment and see it's value decrease exponentially.

Plenty of the players you have recommended have taken more than a season of experience to start showing viability as well. How does an academy get that opportunity if clubs pay money for players in their position.

Kyle Naughton and Adam Smith would be a great example. Was Naughton better than Smith (a player you chose in your DOF I think?) but the club and it's managers were more willing to risk the signing so Smith left before getting a chance.
The caped academy crusader makes his appearance. Welcome BC. Let me take your arguments as bulletpoints:

  1. They wouldn't buy if they thought they had what they needed in-house so the money issue is moot
  2. Plenty? There is a time limit on everything and academy players age out. No one's got time to wait forever for these things BC. We've gone over this before, again and again and again.
  3. And neither were better than Walker so they were vying for backup. And Naughton had perceived value because of his 'ability' to play on the left I presume. But we don't know what the evaluations said of those two players back then do we? So also moot.
I also made some pretty ironclad points up there BC. You saw no merit there?
 
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