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Transfers Summer 2021 - Transfer Thread

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Igula said:
I was saying the the RW would be cheap(ish) to get not the CB or CM.

Bergwijn may be good enough but whether it is him or the role Jose forces him to play he has not been close to good enough so far. Moura, Lamela, Dele are definitely not good enough, even as back-ups they are poor options.

I would rather go with Doherty at RB than Bergwijn/Moura at RW.

I said that CB and CM were equally as important, for me at a minimum we should get a new CB, CM, RW and really also a RB, AM and back-up striker. There may be some overlap here though as if you get someone who can play RW but also fill in at striker maybe you cover two bases or get a guy who can be an AM and RW then you could "cheap" out that way to fill needs.
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Problem is RW will likely not be cheapish unless you are gambling on an unproven talent and if it is an unproven talent, we might as well gamble on an academy product like Clarke (and he cost us about £10m).

Even Bergwijn cost us almost £27m from the Dutch league. Anyone better and we could be looking at £40m+ (and if he is PL proven, there will be an additional premium). Jota £41m, Havertz £71m, Werner £48m, and Ziyech £40m - none of these guys came cheap.

The entire team is burdened defensively by the shortcomings of our defence and midfield. When those areas improve, players like Bergwijn can be judged fairly and we can better assess what needs to be upgraded upfront.

We need a potent goal scorer to backup for Son and Kane at LWF/CF and not necessarily a creative player. We also already have GLC and Ndombele who can play the advanced CM/AM role.

Unless we can really clear out our dead weights, (and we have a lot of that at RW), we wont be able to upgrade on Bergwijn anytime soon
 
El Magnifico said:
Problem is RW will likely not be cheapish unless you are gambling on an unproven talent and if it is an unproven talent, we might as well gamble on an academy product like Clarke (and he cost us about £10m).

Even Bergwijn cost us almost £27m from the Dutch league. Anyone better and we could be looking at £40m+ (and if he is PL proven, there will be an additional premium). Jota £41m, Havertz £71m, Werner £48m, and Ziyech £40m - none of these guys came cheap.

The entire team is burdened defensively by the shortcomings of our defence and midfield. When those areas improve, players like Bergwijn can be judged fairly and we can better assess what needs to be upgraded upfront.

We need a potent goal scorer to backup for Son and Kane at LWF/CF and not necessarily a creative player. We also already have GLC and Ndombele who can play the advanced CM/AM role.

Unless we can really clear out our dead weights, (and we have a lot of that at RW), we wont be able to upgrade on Bergwijn anytime soon
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For me what I would look at RW is moving out Moura and Lamela and bringing in guys like Olise, Matheus Periera. I would be fine if it were those two guys but if not similar guys to them. I don't think that will cost too much, both guys can play on the right or in the middle as attacking midfielders so they can help in both areas of need.

Keep Bergwijn who has shown he is a adequate winger in case the two new guys need time or don't work out. You then added, youth, attacking and creativity in the line-up but still have someone reliable like Bergwijn.

You could then go with:

Son-Kane-Periera
MF 3
Back 4

And have Bergwijn to fill in behind Son or Periera, Sessegnon and Olise as options as well and use Olise off the bench when needed as an attacker, shift Periera to AM if you want a more attacking formation. It gives us a lot more options that what we have with Lamela and Moura who can shift around but only because we don't have anyone else there not because they actually provide any quality.

I am not arguing that we don't have needs in other areas but if we go into next season with a front 3 of Kane-Son and some combination of Bergwijn/Moura/Lamela we are going to have a lot of the same issues we have now of relying on those two to create on their own and being static and negative when one of them are out.
 
Stopspot said:
Quite a few of them the wrong side of 30 as well.

The one I would go for on that picture is Depay, who would fill the creative 10 shaped hole in our squad.

The right side of 30 and with a salary that we can easily handle.
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Depay would be someone I'm looking at but 2 things :

a) Didn't he and Jose fall out previously (maybe we have a new manager by summer anyway)
b) Already tried the EPL and other better clubs than us will probably want him eg. Barcelona.
 
MouraThat said:
Depay would be someone I'm looking at but 2 things :

a) Didn't he and Jose fall out previously (maybe we have a new manager by summer anyway)
b) Already tried the EPL and other better clubs than us will probably want him eg. Barcelona.
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They did have a bit of a falling out but also seem to have settled things according to interviews. Maybe they will work better now that Depay is a few years older. Or as you said we may have a new coach next season.

Barca's interest seems to have cooled since they barely seem able to pay their existing players as it is. Not even Koeman is talking about it and he was quite openly talking about it in September.
 
MouraThat said:
Depay would be someone I'm looking at but 2 things :

a) Didn't he and Jose fall out previously (maybe we have a new manager by summer anyway)
b) Already tried the EPL and other better clubs than us will probably want him eg. Barcelona.
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Thought he said in an interview that he hoped to play for Jose again in the future? Can't remember where I saw it.
 
Igula said:
For me what I would look at RW is moving out Moura and Lamela and bringing in guys like Olise, Matheus Periera. I would be fine if it were those two guys but if not similar guys to them. I don't think that will cost too much, both guys can play on the right or in the middle as attacking midfielders so they can help in both areas of need.

Keep Bergwijn who has shown he is a adequate winger in case the two new guys need time or don't work out. You then added, youth, attacking and creativity in the line-up but still have someone reliable like Bergwijn.

You could then go with:

Son-Kane-Periera
MF 3
Back 4

And have Bergwijn to fill in behind Son or Periera, Sessegnon and Olise as options as well and use Olise off the bench when needed as an attacker, shift Periera to AM if you want a more attacking formation. It gives us a lot more options that what we have with Lamela and Moura who can shift around but only because we don't have anyone else there not because they actually provide any quality.

I am not arguing that we don't have needs in other areas but if we go into next season with a front 3 of Kane-Son and some combination of Bergwijn/Moura/Lamela we are going to have a lot of the same issues we have now of relying on those two to create on their own and being static and negative when one of them are out.
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Those players are not upgrades imo

- Bergwijn is over a year younger, more proven, more experienced and overall better than Pereira.

- Olise is an unproven teenager and will not be much different from gambling on Clarke.

If we want an upgrade on Bergwijn it will cost us quitea bit or some realincredible scouting. But attacking players rarely fly under the radar as their contributions are easier to see than defenders. In fact, the risk is to sign a flash in the plan
 
El Magnifico said:
Those players are not upgrades imo

- Bergwijn is over a year younger, more proven, more experienced and overall better than Pereira.

- Olise is an unproven teenager and will not be much different from gambling on Clarke.

If we want an upgrade on Bergwijn it will cost us quitea bit or some realincredible scouting. But attacking players rarely fly under the radar as their contributions are easier to see than defenders. In fact, the risk is to sign a flash in the plan
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Are we talking about the Bergwijn pre-Spurs or at Spurs? Because since coming here I think Periera is a clear upgrade and Olise has the potential to be much. Both players have shown a lot more creativity than Bergwijn and that is something that we are missing in our.

Plus, as I said we would keep Bergwijn. So the upgrade comes with them being clearly better than Moura and Lamela, with a lot more potential. Them adding the creativity/attacking aspect to the team that we are missing as well. Another benefit both guys have is they prefer to play on the right so Son can play on the left.

Olise has shown a lot more than Clarke, they are not even comparable.

A group of Bergwijn, Olise, Periera (again doesn't have to be those two exact players) is a big upgrade both currently and going forward than the current group we have.
 
Igula said:
Are we talking about the Bergwijn pre-Spurs or at Spurs? Because since coming here I think Periera is a clear upgrade and Olise has the potential to be much. Both players have shown a lot more creativity than Bergwijn and that is something that we are missing in our.

Plus, as I said we would keep Bergwijn. So the upgrade comes with them being clearly better than Moura and Lamela, with a lot more potential. Them adding the creativity/attacking aspect to the team that we are missing as well. Another benefit both guys have is they prefer to play on the right so Son can play on the left.

Olise has shown a lot more than Clarke, they are not even comparable.

A group of Bergwijn, Olise, Periera (again doesn't have to be those two exact players) is a big upgrade both currently and going forward than the current group we have.
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Bergwijn is Bergwijn, pre-spurs or at Spurs. Player may dip in form but they dont decline in class at that age. Bergwijn (and any player) in Eredivisie will likely look better than in the PL, for the simple fact the eredivisie is a lesser league, with lower quality defenders and teams. As our teams rounds out with better players around him (relieving him of most of his defensive burdens) and he fully settles into the PL, when can better judge what he has to offer.

My issue with your proposal is that those players are not clear upgrades on what we have. If you say Bergwijn is not good enough to be our starter, then we should be looking at young starter quality players and not gambling on unproven players. It is buying players that are not clear upgrades that have left us with a bunch of players like Lamela and Moura, with none being clearly better than the rest.

For positions, where we have a starter quality players (CF, LWF, DM, CM, LB), yes we can look to get unproven players with enough potential to surpass the current starter, but for positions whee we dont have a satisfactory starter, we should be looking to bring in starter quality players to bring the the squad quality to the level required to consistently challenge for titles
 
El Magnifico said:
Bergwijn is Bergwijn, pre-spurs or at Spurs. Player may dip in form but they dont decline in class at that age. Bergwijn (and any player) in Eredivisie will likely look better than in the PL, for the simple fact the eredivisie is a lesser league, with lower quality defenders and teams. As our teams rounds out with better players around him (relieving him of most of his defensive burdens) and he fully settles into the PL, when can better judge what he has to offer.

My issue with your proposal is that those players are not clear upgrades on what we have. If you say Bergwijn is not good enough to be our starter, then we should be looking at young starter quality players and not gambling on unproven players. It is buying players that are not clear upgrades that have left us with a bunch of players like Lamela and Moura, with none being clearly better than the rest.

For positions, where we have a starter quality players (CF, LWF, DM, CM, LB), yes we can look to get unproven players with enough potential to surpass the current starter, but for positions whee we dont have a satisfactory starter, we should be looking to bring in starter quality players to bring the the squad quality to the level required to consistently challenge for titles
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Sure add nailed on starters ahead of those guys but we don't have the money to do that and they are clear upgrades on what we have. Olise and Periera, for example, are both better players right now than Lamela and Moura, they also offer much better futures and skills that the team are lacking. Olise and Periera are both young starter quality that you say you want.

Your original argument was we couldn't afford to buy players at RW and now it is changed to we have to buy only elite level guys?

The problem we have isn't buying Lamela and Moura it was not moving on from them when it was clear they are not good enough. Teams that are doing better this year are brining in young, dynamic talents to upgrade their teams, not holding on to dregs like Moura and Lamela.
 
Igula said:
Sure add nailed on starters ahead of those guys but we don't have the money to do that and they are clear upgrades on what we have. Olise and Periera, for example, are both better players right now than Lamela and Moura, they also offer much better futures and skills that the team are lacking. Olise and Periera are both young starter quality that you say you want.

Your original argument was we couldn't afford to buy players at RW and now it is changed to we have to buy only elite level guys?

The problem we have isn't buying Lamela and Moura it was not moving on from them when it was clear they are not good enough. Teams that are doing better this year are brining in young, dynamic talents to upgrade their teams, not holding on to dregs like Moura and Lamela.
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My point is that we cannot afford to spend the needed money to buy a quality RW when there are more dire needs in the squad. The worst starters should be upgraded first imo

Gambling on the likes of Olise and Pereira is not moving us forward and no they are not quality starters for a PL challenger (Olise might develop to be one in a few years, but Pereira is already 24 and is not)
 
El Magnifico said:
My point is that we cannot afford to spend the needed money to buy a quality RW when there are more dire needs in the squad. The worst starters should be upgraded first imo

Gambling on the likes of Olise and Pereira is not moving us forward and no they are not quality starters for a PL challenger (Olise might develop to be one in a few years, but Pereira is already 24 and is not)
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Except it isn't much of a gamble with the talent they have and when they are better than what we have.

Periera has already shown he is a quality PL starter this year, clearly better than Moura and Lamela. Olise is 19 and the top player in the Championship this year.

There is no reason to keep worse players like Moura and Lamela when we can get better players, for relatively cheap the improve the team and add aspects to the team that we desperately need- creativity, passing, attacking.
 
Igula said:
Except it isn't much of a gamble with the talent they have and when they are better than what we have.

Periera has already shown he is a quality PL starter this year, clearly better than Moura and Lamela. Olise is 19 and the top player in the Championship this year.

There is no reason to keep worse players like Moura and Lamela when we can get better players, for relatively cheap the improve the team and add aspects to the team that we desperately need- creativity, passing, attacking.
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Maybe you are looking at a different player but Pereira is not the level of player that should be starting for us. Olise has shown talent, but that is it. Being a star in the championship doesnt equate to being a quality starter for a PL contender.

You say Lamela and Moura are worse when there is no evidence that Olise or Pereira can deliver at the highest level. Pereira is not even worth the discussion.
 
El Magnifico said:
Maybe you are looking at a different player but Pereira is not the level of player that should be starting for us. Olise has shown talent, but that is it. Being a star in the championship doesnt equate to being a quality starter for a PL contender.

You say Lamela and Moura are worse when there is no evidence that Olise or Pereira can deliver at the highest level. Pereira is not even worth the discussion.
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Periera is not ideal to start for us but neither many of the players that start for us. He is good enough and better than what we have.

It would be nice to replace Moura and Lamela with Sterling and Mane but that isn't going to happen so we need to look at realistic ways to improve the team and Olise/Periera improve us.
 
God know where Jose or whoever is managing this summer starts with recruitment.

First we'll have to bin off loads of dross from this squad and then how on earth do we even go about building a decent defense?

Probably need two quality CB's, a RB and another defensive minded midfielder (unless Skipp can step up) which realistically would cost a ton to actually get quality players in
 
NikM79 said:
God know where Jose or whoever is managing this summer starts with recruitment.

First we'll have to bin off loads of dross from this squad and then how on earth do we even go about building a decent defense?

Probably need two quality CB's, a RB and another defensive minded midfielder (unless Skipp can step up) which realistically would cost a ton to actually get quality players in
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Looking at the Swiss ramble report on the finances and debt it paints a worrying picture. Levy failed to secure naming rights for the stadium at our peak a few years back due to greed. I agree with you, this rebuild is huge. Players must be moved on quickly, sticking with the same faces from the last 3-5 years will result in more of the same. ENIC have to invest in a new DOF (like Campos) and a proper scouting system like Leicester have. Can’t see any European football next season with this team as much as Harry and Son try, too many individual errors costing us as always. If Levy tries to cheap out and fails he has to realise the quick fix is to bring in big outside investment or sell a stake in the club to avoid falling back. Look at Everton, similar sizes club with similar ambitions, have an owner pumping money in - they’ve bought poorly but pay what’s required (usually over the odds) but at least have a go. The sell to buy line won’t work this summer, likewise their reliance on Kane and Son staying put. There’s no loyalty in football.
 
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