Tanguy Ndombele

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If it's happening (like it did in the Chav pre-season game) then 100% it will be the route and cause of the issue. If playing against a 4-3-3 it's what oppo managers will try and target (draw the midfielders out wide, then load the wings with overloads in order to get behind).
I don't watch preseason friendlies anymore, so I can't comment on that.

I felt our players looked much fitter when we played City, but now the sluggishness has crept back in. I think PEH looks burnt out already, for example.

Looking back on bits and pieces of our games today, I can certainly say that our players frequently look as though they don't know what they are supposed to be doing, but there is an alarming lethargy about them, too, and because of the way we are set up, it's not always possible to double up on tricky wingers, for example.
 
Been sounding the alarm about this for a while - Kane brings a different dynamic to the attack and not always for the best.
It is a conundrum for me too, but he's just too good in our build-up for him not to be included.

Really not sure what the answer is. Perhaps just have him play as a 10, create some attacking patterns using our 8's as 3rd man runners, certainly have Dele making those late runs to the back post.

We absolutely have the players, Dele, Ndombele, Lo Celso, PEH, Bergwijn, Son & Lucas. Even Romero should make a notable difference in our build-up from deep, as he's noted for stepping out of the back 4 (not sure if he's known as a passer??). If players are all fit and available there should be enough competition for places with the exception of Midfield and RB (maybe be LB still as not sure about Sess and Davies has dropped off a cliff from boring and dependable to shite).

Maybe just need to ride these injuries out. I would still bin this Micky mouse European lark off quickly, need all the time we get in preparing and remaining fit for the domestic season.
 
I don't watch preseason friendlies anymore, so I can't comment on that.

I felt our players looked much fitter when we played City, but now the sluggishness has crept back in. I think PEH looks burnt out already, for example.

Looking back on bits and pieces of our games today, I can certainly say that our players frequently look as though they don't know what they are supposed to be doing, but there is an alarming lethargy about them, too, and because of the way we are set up, it's not always possible to double up on tricky wingers, for example.
The key is not to have our midfield engage out wide. If you rewatch that game again, City dominance in the first 10-15min came largely as a result in City getting past Skipp. They achieved this because he was drawn out wide which isolated him against City's overloads (Sterling and Grealish). Our improvement came about when he engaged them from a much more narrow position, the player allowed to come wide was Tanganga (Skipp dropped in behind), it was the same on the other side of the pitch (this is also what Chavs did in CL final against them). It's what I loved about our performance.

I don't think the lads are sluggish/unfit/whatever. I think the effort is there. What absolutely isn't there is the press in the midfield block, we are looking so passive, which is a massive concern for me. I think it's this that transmits the feeling that they are looking lethargic, it's exciting watching your team press and harass the oppo as a collective (that passage of play after we scored from Rennes is a classic example, it lifts everything from players and crowd - we had this vs City). This is the headscratcher for me, I don't get (or have noticed) what's specifically changed, or what has caused it.
 
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Really not sure what the answer is. Perhaps just have him play as a 10, create some attacking patterns using our 8's as 3rd man runners, certainly have Dele making those late runs to the back post.
I get the impression that Nuno is going to sacrifice Dele's goal contributions and play him deeper. Perhaps that will pave the way for Ndombele to play further forward.

I get the point that Tanguy sees more of the ball deeper and is therefore more effective, but if he is going to play in a two, he needs to be more alert to his defensive contribution. I don't think he reads the game especially well there.

I'm not sure I like the idea of our CBs pushing up too much, to help connect with Tanguy in the midfield, as I'm still haunted by the image of Sanchez running backwards and headbutting the grass. Maybe Romero will help out in that regard.
 
I get the impression that Nuno is going to sacrifice Dele's goal contributions and play him deeper. Perhaps that will pave the way for Ndombele to play further forward.

I get the point that Tanguy sees more of the ball deeper and is therefore more effective, but if he is going to play in a two, he needs to be more alert to his defensive contribution. I don't think he reads the game especially well there.

I'm not sure I like the idea of our CBs pushing up too much, to help connect with Tanguy in the midfield, as I'm still haunted by the image of Sanchez running backwards and headbutting the grass. Maybe Romero will help out in that regard.
There's no evidence that if Tangy plays that we'll play him in a two (or double pivot), I think we went with for the majority of the game vs Rennes still in a 4-3-3, maybe that morphed a bit into a 4-1-4-1 but more semantics in the positions that Kane and Ndombele took up in the 4-3-3???? (I'm not ruling out him as one of the two in a 4-2-3-1 just that based on what we've seen we've not been close to this).

For me, I couldn't give two hoots about his defensive contribution (FOR NOW). We aren't creating anything and when he plays we create something. I know his lack of defensive contribution in the build-up to their equalizer was pathetic but had Doherty actually been any good then that phase of play wouldn't have even happened (in the previous phase Doherty was diabolically and they built from that). I not making any excuse for him here, just looking at the team and playing an objective view on its balance. I'm 100% prepared to let that stuff go on if he's breaking oppo lines and creating opportunities for the team.

Having CB's able to contribute to build-up is absolutely vital, if Romero brings the ball out there will be a midfielder drop back in to cover (Tanguay, Winks, Skipp whoever is alongside), it shouldn't affect or weaken the back 4 structurally. CB's pinging diagonal balls (Toby) or bringing the ball out at feet (Jan) adds significant dynamics that all top teams play with, not having CB's doing this just creates and feeds our passiveness and encourages an aggressive press from the oppo and intern creates clusterfucks that we've seen from our CB's. This hasn't been the case from them this season, because defensively they've been better coached but the more passive our midfield becomes the less time Sanchez and Dier will have on the ball and the more likely we'll see the errors (I'm expecting Romero to commit many errors, mainly from CB's rolling him as he tries to play aggressively ahead of the striker but another thing I'll balance out as I think his aggressive front foot defending is a step in the right direction for me).
 
There's no evidence that if Tangy plays that we'll play him in a two (or double pivot), I think we went with for the majority of the game vs Rennes still in a 4-3-3, maybe that morphed a bit into a 4-1-4-1 but more semantics in the positions that Kane and Ndombele took up in the 4-3-3???? (I'm not ruling out him as one of the two in a 4-2-3-1 just that based on what we've seen we've not been close to this).

For me, I couldn't give two hoots about his defensive contribution (FOR NOW). We aren't creating anything and when he plays we create something. I know his lack of defensive contribution in the build-up to their equalizer was pathetic but had Doherty actually been any good then that phase of play wouldn't have even happened (in the previous phase Doherty was diabolically and they built from that). I not making any excuse for him here, just looking at the team and playing an objective view on its balance. I'm 100% prepared to let that stuff go on if he's breaking oppo lines and creating opportunities for the team.

Having CB's able to contribute to build-up is absolutely vital, if Romero brings the ball out there will be a midfielder drop back in to cover (Tanguay, Winks, Skipp whoever is alongside), it shouldn't affect or weaken the back 4 structurally. CB's pinging diagonal balls (Toby) or bringing the ball out at feet (Jan) adds significant dynamics that all top teams play with, not having CB's doing this just creates and feeds our passiveness and encourages an aggressive press from the oppo and intern creates clusterfucks that we've seen from our CB's. This hasn't been the case from them this season, because defensively they've been better coached but the more passive our midfield becomes the less time Sanchez and Dier will have on the ball and the more likely we'll see the errors (I'm expecting Romero to commit many errors, mainly from CB's rolling him as he tries to play aggressively ahead of the striker but another thing I'll balance out as I think his aggressive front foot defending is a step in the right direction for me).
We miss a Jan-like CB. Teams are giving our CBs acres of space to move into. Jan used to drive into the space and force the team to engage with him. Then if the team pressed our CBs, we'd hand it off to Dembele or Toby would ping one over the top or switch the play.

I'm hoping Romero can do some of this. Sanchez and Dier don't really do it, Tanganga doesn't either. Maybe Rodon? In any case, our ball progression challenges aren't down to one player or one position group - it's a collective problem - but Ndombele is by far the best at progressing the ball in the squad.
 
It is a conundrum for me too, but he's just too good in our build-up for him not to be included.

Really not sure what the answer is. Perhaps just have him play as a 10, create some attacking patterns using our 8's as 3rd man runners, certainly have Dele making those late runs to the back post.

We absolutely have the players, Dele, Ndombele, Lo Celso, PEH, Bergwijn, Son & Lucas. Even Romero should make a notable difference in our build-up from deep, as he's noted for stepping out of the back 4 (not sure if he's known as a passer??). If players are all fit and available there should be enough competition for places with the exception of Midfield and RB (maybe be LB still as not sure about Sess and Davies has dropped off a cliff from boring and dependable to shite).

Maybe just need to ride these injuries out. I would still bin this Micky mouse European lark off quickly, need all the time we get in preparing and remaining fit for the domestic season.
I agree the starting squad is tricky. I am leaning towards Kane and Son being our strikers and playing a 4-2-2-2.

I think having them two as striker means when Kane does drop into the 10 role he will have someone beyond him.

Ndombele and Dele behind Kane and Son could add to the attack and if Hjolberg and Skipp are behind it means we won't get overrun in midfield. Ndombele needs to be in the opposition half, we don't need him defending.

I like the blend of style going from a fully defensive midfielder Skipp, Hjolberg slightly more defensive but wants to get things moving forward, Dele then less defensive but can put in the groundwork needed for CM and then Ndombele who cannot defend at all but is wonderful on the ball and going forward.

2 solid CBs, a nice blended midfield 4 leading up to world class strikers.
Regi and Emerson control their sides and they know they have a midfielder spare if being overrun at times.
 
We miss a Jan-like CB. Teams are giving our CBs acres of space to move into. Jan used to drive into the space and force the team to engage with him. Then if the team pressed our CBs, we'd hand it off to Dembele or Toby would ping one over the top or switch the play.

I'm hoping Romero can do some of this. Sanchez and Dier don't really do it, Tanganga doesn't either. Maybe Rodon? In any case, our ball progression challenges aren't down to one player or one position group - it's a collective problem - but Ndombele is by far the best at progressing the ball in the squad.
I've now watched every minute of Rodon play for us, I think he's been shit. He's made some blocks but I don't dig him at all, looks like a right old clogger.

Both Dier and Sanchez can be pressed into mistakes, but behind an aggressive pressing midfield they've been just fine this season, Sanchez has passed very well. They are good CB's, with limitations but the system we put in initially this year has been good for them (just as it is with all top teams CB's look better when they aren't under siege). But for us to progress with finesse the CB's that contribute to a positive dynamic in the build-up is the aim.
 
This is pretty much what most of us think about him. (Certain knuckleheads notwithstanding)


The last time Tanguy Ndombele started for Tottenham belongs to another era.

It was almost five months ago, Ryan Mason’s first game as interim manager, and in the midst of the Super League saga. Ndombele played poorly and was hooked for Harry Winks, dropped for the Carabao Cup final four days later and barely seen again for the remaining five matches of last season.

Plenty has happened since then, not least Ndombele trying and failing to force a move away. New coach Nuno Espirito Santo quite understandably did not want to pick him while the midfielder’s future was still unclear but now that he is staying at the club, both parties might as well make the best of the situation.

So Ndombele was back in the team for Thursday’s Europa Conference League group opener away to Rennes, able to show what he can do for the first time in 2021-22.

Although plenty has changed since that 1-0 defeat to Manchester City at Wembley, some things have not. In short: Ndombele is a brilliantly imaginative and creative player unlike anyone else Spurs have. He can do things his team-mates cannot and that opponents struggle to prevent. He is also far from a perfect player — he is prone to giving the ball away, not assiduous defensively and not always fit enough to get through 90 minutes.

Last night’s performance in north west France could hardly have been more typically Ndombele. He produced one ludicrous bit of skill for Tottenham’s first goal and opened up the move for the late second that earned them a 2-2 draw. There were moments when he looked unstoppable, but there were also long periods where the game passed him by. When Rennes stepped it up, Spurs needed Ndombele to try to stop them, and he did not.

Ndombele was certainly their best player (when could we last say that?) but he was the best player on a bad team. The trick for Nuno is not simply to get the best out of Ndombele over 90 minutes — it is to motivate him to perform twice a week across the whole of a 50-game season. If he can do that, he will have managed more than predecessors Mason, Mauricio Pochettino or Jose Mourinho did.

The problem for Tottenham in Rennes was that their best moment, the first goal, was itself the turning point of the game. And it all started with just one brilliant little flick. Ndombele was out on the right-hand side, inside Spurs’ half, and his attempt to chest the ball had almost knocked it out of play. Recovering fast, he hammered a backheel through the legs of Adrien Truffert and away from Flavien Tait. That gave Oliver Skipp space, he found Harry Kane, whose perfect flick round the corner set Lucas Moura away to score Spurs’ opener via a heavy deflection off Loic Bade.

This could have been the start of something, not only for Ndombele but for Spurs’ season, maybe even the whole Nuno tenure. But almost as soon as Tottenham had taken the lead, Rennes woke up and started playing a level of football beyond what Tottenham could cope with.

As brilliant as Ndombele was to set up Spurs’ opener, he struggled to cope with the physical intensity that Rennes demanded of him as they raised the tempo. The home side seemed to sense that he would not offer much resistance. Tait shrugged off Ndombele far too easily, leaving him standing still, before curling a shot around Japhet Tanganga and into the bottom corner for 1-1.

But Ndombele was still Spurs’ best and most important attacking player, offering that point of difference.
Even as Spurs were struggling to cause Rennes any real problems, Ndombele would just emerge from nowhere and do something that nobody else had counted on. Like when, five minutes into the second half, he hit a first-time pass to Kane, burst into the penalty area past the centre-backs, received the return pass and then got thwarted by onrushing goalkeeper Romain Salin just as he tried to get his shot away.

Which other Spurs player would have the ingenuity, bravery and skill to try something like that? One of the most striking things about Tottenham’s decline over the last few years has been the draining of imagination out of their game.

Under Mourinho, the players looked scared to try things. Under Nuno, they are sometimes caught up in a tactical straightjacket. The emphasis so far this season has been on shape, pressing and organisation. Spurs are not trying to be more entertaining, they are trying to execute a more effective version of Mourinho’s football.


Ndombele’s skill alone was not enough to turn this game in their favour. There were too many other problems for that. And as Nuno continued to make changes to protect players for Sunday’s meeting with Chelsea, Spurs had less and less firepower on the pitch. But when they conceded for a second time with 20 minutes to go, they needed an equaliser.

Picking up the ball on the left (not far, in fact, from where he’d played his early backheel), Ndombele drove forward, cut inside and away from Gaetan Laborde and looked up. Seeing Matt Doherty was his only team-mate in space, Ndombele scooped a pass onto the Irishman’s run, switching the play perfectly, opening up the pitch for Spurs. Doherty’s cross was deflected but turned in by Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg.

Five minutes later, Ndombele was taken off for Dele Alli. From that point on, Tottenham did not create much more in the game. They escaped from Brittany with a point, which is a good result in the context of a disjointed performance against a superior opponent.

The significance of that one point will only become clear later in the tournament, perhaps not until December 9 when Spurs host Rennes in their final group game. Far more important will be what Nuno might have learned from watching his team struggle last night.

His iteration of Tottenham are struggling desperately to create openings and chances but the one man who can make the difference is Ndombele.

The Frenchman is far from perfect and not even fully fit yet, but he is different, dangerous and surprising.
In a predictable team, that counts for a lot.
 


But please tell me more about Dele doing half marathons and Winks’ great attitude

Easily the most talented player in the squad.

Total baller.

Just natural footballing talent - it's all there.

Professionally, he's a shithouse.

Needs to grow up and slot into a more disciplined mindset.

A fully revved up Tango is a game-changer for us, this season.
 
Ndombele posted on his instagram:

Happy to be back in the starting XI.. Since April. 🙏🏾

So much for him being happy sitting on his ass and collecting a paycheck, he's obviously not happy being benched, which is exactly the attitude we need from him!
 
Easily the most talented player in the squad.

Total baller.

Just natural footballing talent - it's all there.

Professionally, he's a shithouse.

Needs to grow up and slot into a more disciplined mindset.

A fully revved up Tango is a game-changer for us, this season.
Can't argue with that.
But the most important line is:
Professionally, he's a shithouse.
 
Of course there is a chance he willl be another Winks, Carroll, Mason. So far Skipp is Winks with more of a fight. But he is also younger, so has time to develop his game more. Why waste time on Winks when we can have a slightly better version with time on his side.
We really don’t have the time or patience to start grooming players.
If he isn’t ready, he should go on loan or stick with the reserves.
 
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