The “They’re really going to have a World Cup in QATAR?” Thread

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Sort by date Sort by reaction score
Éperons

Éperons

Who knows if this forum will live to see the World Cup in Qatar. But at least we can rest calmly knowing that it might come six months earlier:

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...-moving-qatar-2022-world-cup-to-winter-030213
FIFA general secretary Jerome Valcke has confirmed that playing the 2022 World Cup in Qatar during the winter is a possibility.

Valcke said the request to move the timing of the finals must come from the hosts Qatar - unless FIFA's executive committee decides that the medical risks of playing the tournament in the extreme heat of June are too great. Temperatures in Qatar can exceed 104 degrees in June.
Click to expand...
I can't wait to hear what excuses Ade will come up with for not returning from this on time!

:adelol:
 
Don't get the fuss about it being in Qatar. They don't need to do it in winter either, if they were able to do the Euros in Portugal then they can bring the Qatar WC forward to April which would be the same kind of temperature, just start and end the European leagues a month earlier that year, I'm sure they can figure something out.
 
YrHtv6f.jpg

0ffiPsv.jpg

l6oSCPC.jpg
 
Smoked Salmon said:
By that reasoning it shouldn't be held in Brazil and shouldn't have been staged in South Africa.

Olympics in China, etc...
Click to expand...

They shouldn't be to be fair. FIFA would argue that the world cup helped South Africa and unified the country. Did it bollocks. The government has done nothing about the millions of people living in abject poverty. And the horrendous acts of violence that happen there day in day out. Look at what the police did to that guy only last week.

I suppose an argument could be made that we would end up having the world cup in the same few countries if we only held it in countries that didn't have these kinds of problems. But seriously the World cup should not be going to countries like Qatar, where draconian and lets be honest backwards laws are in place. All it does is legitimise these states.
 
Schoolboy'sOwnStuff said:
Yep.

Try being gay in Qatar. Not that I am gay or in Qatar.
Click to expand...
My point is that it is a matter of perspective. I fear that where the Middle East is concerned the assumption is that it is a cesspit of evil, perpetuated by Arabs and/or Muslims.

But human rights is not a simple issue. You cite homosexuality, but have you actually checked the statistics of how many people were prosecuted for it in Qatar in recent years? I think you'll find the numbers are actully quite small.

What would consider to be the highest form of human rights abuse? Personally I would say the death penalty. Do you know which country is the fifth highest for executions in the world? The United States. Much higher than most Arab countries (with the exception of Saudi and Yemen), including much higher than Qatar, which last executed someone in 2003 (meaning that since those evil Qataris last put someone to death the Americans have executed around 500 people). Were you against holding the World Cup in America? The United States also practices torture (self acknowledged) and denies basic judicial rights to prisoners of war, instead putting them before military kangaroo courts. It happily carries out drone attacks againts towns and villages within the borders of it's allies in the name of the fight against terrorism. The US has institutional racism, significant religious fundementalism and, talking of homosexuality, can't even enact federal law to preserve the right to gay marriage. However, where is the faux outrage for any of this? People are still quite happy to by McDonald's burgers, have their summer holidays in Florida and pop the latest Hollywood blockbuster into their DVD machines.

How about Brazil? Riddled with torture, corruption, extra judicial killings and various other human rights abuses. Gonna turn off the TV in 2014 and 2016?

People need to check out the statistics and facts for themselves before getting all high and mighty. We live in a culture of huge double standards and hypocrisy. If you want to make a stand against human rights abuses then consistency is the key and there are a great many places you should be outrages about in greater or equal measure to Qatar.

The reality is that the WC in Qatar will play out like most others, with the Qataris on their best behaviour to present a good image to the rest of the world. So, either be consistent in boycotting serious human rights abuses across the board, or just accept that Qatar has it and enjoy the football.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
But human rights is not a simple issue. You cite homosexuality, but have you actually checked the statistics of how many people were prosecuted for it in Qatar in recent years? I think you'll find the numbers are actully quite small.
Click to expand...

You could just take that as showing that their excessive laws and religious dogma are working to suppress homosexuality. It doesn't mean that the government are turning a blind eye to it.
 
Tucker said:
They shouldn't be to be fair. FIFA would argue that the world cup helped South Africa and unified the country. Did it bollocks. The government has done nothing about the millions of people living in abject poverty. And the horrendous acts of violence that happen there day in day out. Look at what the police did to that guy only last week.

I suppose an argument could be made that we would end up having the world cup in the same few countries if we only held it in countries that didn't have these kinds of problems. But seriously the World cup should not be going to countries like Qatar, where draconian and lets be honest backwards laws are in place. All it does is legitimise these states.
Click to expand...
I think that a lot of these supposedly draconian countries are not quite as bad as we are lead to believe by the media. I've had to do a lot of human rights research over the years for work reasons, and the number of Arab countries who routine enforce these laws are in a minority, Qatar being one of the most moderate.

I'm not suggesting these places are havens of equality and fairness, rather that quit a few of the countries we regard as cesspits of cavemen like evil doers aren't quite as bad as we are lead to believe, and that others we are quite happy to enjoy our summer holidays in and do business with aren't quite as rosy as people think.

The precedent was set with China with no free speech and more than 2000 executions a year (worst in the world) should they have hosted the Olympics? Well, if we're gonna be outraged by Qatar then you would say no.

The reality is that, like you say, if we make an issue of it, and apply consistency, then the only countries to ever host these competitions should be a few European nations, Australia, New Zealand and only some of the G7 nations. However, all I see are people directing outrage towards certain counties because of what the media tells them to think. There is copious amounts of info online from Amnesty and Human Rights Watch about many, many countries. People should check it out. They might be surprised at what they learn.

Lets face it, it's unrealistic to expect Qatar to be denied the chance to host and not going to happen. Either we accept it or become far more rigid over who can host major sporting tournaments.
 
Tucker said:
You could just take that as showing that their excessive laws and religious dogma are working to suppress homosexuality. It doesn't mean that the government are turning a blind eye to it.
Click to expand...
No, but are we going to now pick and choose which human rights abuses are ok and which are not in carrying out an assessment of who idle fit to host. Is the surpression of homosexuality wrong, but state sponsored killing and torture ok? Are they on the same level?

Or are they all wrongs to be opposed? If this then my argument that you must be consistent is the only rational and logical one available.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
Lets face it, it's unrealistic to expect Qatar to be denied the chance to host and not going to happen. Either we accept it or become far more rigid over who can host major sporting tournaments.
Click to expand...

Of course it's unrealistic, especially considering the whole China thing. The world is in bed with that country and happily turns a blind eye to whatever they wish to do to their population.

But when you consider the world used to actually have a conscience, when you think back to the time when most countries refused to play sports against South Africa for instance. And then you look now, it's a little disappointing that we are all suddenly willing to play ball with all these people.

Human rights records aside, it seems a little more than ridiculous that from a bid that included air conditioned stadia to cope with the heat, we are now in a situation that we are going to have to rearrange the entire season of the majority of the biggest leagues in the world to accommodate it.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
No, but are we going to now pick and choose which human rights abuses are ok and which are not in carrying out an assessment of who idle fit to host. Is the surpression of homosexuality wrong, but state sponsored killing and torture ok? Are they on the same level?

Or are they all wrongs to be opposed? If this then my argument that you must be consistent is the only rational and logical one available.
Click to expand...

Of course we should, and the points you have raised about the US and China are completely correct. Like I said the world are in bed with these nations.
 
Tucker said:
Of course it's unrealistic, especially considering the whole China thing. The world is in bed with that country and happily turns a blind eye to whatever they wish to do to their population.

But when you consider the world used to actually have a conscience, when you think back to the time when most countries refused to play sports against South Africa for instance. And then you look now, it's a little disappointing that we are all suddenly willing to play ball with all these people.

Human rights records aside, it seems a little more than ridiculous that from a bid that included air conditioned stadia to cope with the heat, we are now in a situation that we are going to have to rearrange the entire season of the majority of the biggest leagues in the world to accommodate it.
Click to expand...
Practicality is a whole different debate, one that is certainly legitimate. However, it would bbw the first tournament held in a very hot climate .
 
I have no real political issue with the WC's being in Qatar. Brian Phillips noted:
Brian Phillips said:
The past four World Cups to be awarded… have charted a line straight down the Democracy Index, from South Africa (30th place) to Brazil (47th) to Russia (107th) to Qatar (137th)
Click to expand...
Despite the photo ops and Blatter's fantasies to the contrary, FIFA isn't a force for good in this world. It's, instead, a force for ensuring that the contracts its sponsors sign will be honoured, even if it means that states have to change their laws (like in Brazil, where FIFA is pressuring the government to change the law forbidding sale of beer in stadia so that Budweiser's sponsorship will have tangible value to AB InBev). And as we're learning, pace Fukuyama or the Chicago Boys, while it's nice to say democracy and the free market go together well, the free market and authoritarianism go together even better.

So there's no reason, on political grounds, that Qatar should come in for special criticism, though I've seen the usual (neo)liberal knee-jerk identitarian shock over homosexuality's being illegal there (something Phillips also alludes to).

On the other hand, note that the OP makes no political claim. Air conditioning pitches is simply bats, as is putting the WC in winter, and I'm not at all surprised that the PL doesn't like the idea of putting its season on hold one bit. The league will be probably more than decimated by players' leaving to play in Qatar for a month. On the other hand, EDLers will all dance a jig as mediocre Englishmen (I'm not counting Lampard or Terry, who will still be called up) take all the headlines in the PL for four straight gameweeks.

I simply don't get the sense that FIFA thought through the logistics terribly when selecting Qatar… but then they said that about South Africa, Brazil, and will say it about Russia, I'm sure, too.

…Plus, we all know how things are in arab land. Dodgy eastern management, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom