The Press

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What is the biggest factor for us turning off the press?


  • Total voters
    18
Unless you've got a ridiculous amount of money and a squad capable of competing 10 comps a season, you cannot play an intense press every week, for 90 minutes. Ffs, even Liverpool can't do it, they just have a system that suits them and their players and fans who back it

IIt's a small teams mentality.

Why do you think we have NEVER pressed as good as Pochs Southampton did!?
We shouldn't be pressing for 90 minutes but we should be pressing like Liverpool/City high up the pitch when appropriate.

I don't want what Chelsea is doing which is mindless running, but there's got to be a happy medium.
 
Also could be that the players are just too fucked to keep it up. Poch seems to think people are robots..

After he left Southampton...
"With the new manager, training is more about short, sharp work, which I think the players prefer," said Saints midfielder James Ward-Prowse. "I think you can see the differences in our performance. Pochettino likes to press a lot more and we did a lot more extra running sessions late into the afternoon during his time at the club."


And recent rumours from our players too
 

Totti

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I get that we deploy a press, but it's a half ass approach to what made us one of the most entertaining and threatening teams to play against.

And I don't buy fitness as Pool play a way more aggressive style of play against all clubs and are showing they get shit done.

But we've never pressed as well as Southampton did under Poch.

The only times we really pressed were towards the end of the 14/15 season when Poch as getting to grips with his best team and 15/16 which saw us burn out significantly towards the end.

We didn't have anywhere near an intense press in 16/17. We just had a better system, control in midfield and pace.

That deserted us for the last few years because we lost Rose and Walker and Wanyama got crocked.

Truth is, our press has been no different the last 3 seasons. The system and the team however has
 

Totti

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We shouldn't be pressing for 90 minutes but we should be pressing like Liverpool/City high up the pitch when appropriate.

I don't want what Chelsea is doing which is mindless running, but there's got to be a happy medium.

We did yesterday.

Then we conceded and abandoned ship.

Liverpool press high for 15 minutes then aim to control, basically what we done yesterday except Liverpool rarely concede early or concede first

The Poch press has been a myth. Sometimes we press and sometimes we don't. Depends on opposition I reckon but its been like that for 3 years
 
We did yesterday.

Then we conceded and abandoned ship.

Liverpool press high for 15 minutes then aim to control, basically what we done yesterday except Liverpool rarely concede early or concede first

The Poch press has been a myth. Sometimes we press and sometimes we don't. Depends on opposition I reckon but its been like that for 3 years
Why we stopped after conceding is what is confusing. And I think it goes back to Poch's confidence on stopping an attack if the press fails.
 
I went for 'Other' - in reference to the pitch.

We pressed teams all over the place at White Hart Lane. The pitch Dembele blamed for being too narrow and allowing teams to defend deep against us easier - but less ground to cover and maintain the press too I suppose.
Maybe it's coincidence, but the press seemed to die off after leaving home.

What a fantastic season that was in the league.. but at Wembley we didn't press and looked poor.
I thought that might have been a 'European game pace' thing at the time.. Not sure, but curious.
 

Totti

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Why we stopped after conceding is what is confusing. And I think it goes back to Poch's confidence on stopping an attack if the press fails.

Fear? Panic?

Most likely. So we went back to controlling a game. If we have the ball, they don't have it mentality.

Still maintain yesterday itself was different to Villa and 9 times out of 10 we win that. Especially if we are given the penalty
 
I've seen some people say "We don't press because it damages the players stamina at the end of the season, they end up burnt out so we finish poorly".

To those same people, did you watch the end of last season? We were shocking, we have never been able to perform well come the end of the season under Poch, pressing or not.

The way football is going, the best teams press. It's becoming more and more popular and yet we've bizarrely stopped doing it.
 
Fear? Panic?

Most likely. So we went back to controlling a game. If we have the ball, they don't have it mentality.

Still maintain yesterday itself was different to Villa and 9 times out of 10 we win that. Especially if we are given the penalty
We played well enough for a draw, so with the pen maybe a win. But it wasn't the type of performance we should be having against an opponent the quality of Newcastle, i.e. relegation fodder, even if they played "well".
 
Unless you've got a ridiculous amount of money and a squad capable of competing 10 comps a season, you cannot play an intense press every week, for 90 minutes. Ffs, even Liverpool can't do it, they just have a system that suits them and their players and fans who back it

IIt's a small teams mentality.

Why do you think we have NEVER pressed as good as Pochs Southampton did!?

Agreed pressing every game is impossible - unless we are not in Europe and get knocked out early from domestic cups so only have 40 game season - when it might be possible.

Think a full press might be effective against the likes of Chelsea and other relatively good teams who try to play us ,( a press ineffective against teams who gave 10 behind the ball - I recall a match with Mason and Kane when we did just that to Chelsea and won well.

But it's really tiring to do, which is why we could only do it highly selectively and if we can rotate perhaps 6 or more players for the following game (assuming we are playing weekend and midweek,)

Poch clearly saying he expects us to press - but I think he means selectively and only sometimes.
 
we have never been able to perform well come the end of the season under Poch, pressing or not.

44KBjdO.jpg
 

Totti

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I went for 'Other' - in reference to the pitch.

We pressed teams all over the place at White Hart Lane. The pitch Dembele blamed for being too narrow and allowing teams to defend deep against us easier - but less ground to cover and maintain the press too I suppose.
Maybe it's coincidence, but the press seemed to die off after leaving home.

What a fantastic season that was in the league.. but at Wembley we didn't press and looked poor.
I thought that might have been a 'European game pace' thing at the time.. Not sure, but curious.

Our press wasn't anything special in 16/17. We just started games quicker, aimed to get in behind with pace.

If we had the exact same team in 17/18 that we had in 16/17 we wouldn't have seen much difference to the performances at Wembley. We just had a different team with a different way of playing.
 

Totti

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Not sure if you're refering to Newcastle or Villa, if Newcastle we had 3 shots on target and only one of them was dangerous. I think 9/10 we draw/lose yesterdays game.

I don't think we concede. That game yesterday was akin to the likes of Palace or Brighton from last year my view.
 

Totti

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And the press that season was no different to the press weve played the last few years. The press itself was rather low intensity.

Like I said in another thread. 2017 has been the anamoly in Pochs reign. Every other calende year has shown inconsistency, poor runs and games

It's 2017 that everyone remembers though out of the 5 years Poch has been here. A bit like when people see Rose playing and see the 2017 version when he's been dogshit ever since
 

2014/15 - 5 losses, 2 draws, 6 wins

28c02f3347d3b33719a4c2fbcf29b63a.png



2015/16 - 5 losses, 4 draws, 4 wins

e35a9bcaf22a4a7eae759599575efe51.png



2016/17 - 2 losses, 12 wins. By far our best finish, despite losing in the semi final


973f9c2803eedf351b58ca0c48583278.png



2017/18 - 4 losses, 1 draw, 8 wins. A decent finish, but knocked out of the FA semi final and CL

a0c60bc1acc270a9dd570aef2b21505a.png


7423c76f0982c3a1b353d89db491cfb1.png



2018/19 - 8 losses, 2 draws, 6 wins. The most losses we've had under Poch at the end of a season.

94da4ab41e5b5d5e1877f5db22f518d2.png


So that's 5 seasons and we've finished like shit in 3 of them, incredible in 1 and well in 1 of them. We're definitely not a team that consistently ends a season well, but for me to say never was an exaggeration.
 

Totti

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2014/15 - 5 losses, 2 draws, 6 wins

28c02f3347d3b33719a4c2fbcf29b63a.png



2015/16 - 5 losses, 4 draws, 4 wins

e35a9bcaf22a4a7eae759599575efe51.png



2016/17 - 2 losses, 12 wins. By far our best finish, despite losing in the semi final


973f9c2803eedf351b58ca0c48583278.png



2017/18 - 4 losses, 1 draw, 8 wins. A decent finish, but knocked out of the FA semi final and CL

a0c60bc1acc270a9dd570aef2b21505a.png


7423c76f0982c3a1b353d89db491cfb1.png



2018/19 - 8 losses, 2 draws, 6 wins. The most losses we've had under Poch at the end of a season.

94da4ab41e5b5d5e1877f5db22f518d2.png


So that's 5 seasons and we've finished like shit in 3 of them, incredible in 1 and well in 1 of them. We're definitely not a team that consistently ends a season well, but for me to say never was an exaggeration.


2017

The anomaly. The one year his future wasn't called into question.

Probably helps that it was our last season at White Hart Lane and we played out of our skin to make sure we didn't drop points there.

Willing to bet, if it wasn't our last season there, we wouldn't have done so well at home.
 
Our press wasn't anything special in 16/17. We just started games quicker, aimed to get in behind with pace.

If we had the exact same team in 17/18 that we had in 16/17 we wouldn't have seen much difference to the performances at Wembley. We just had a different team with a different way of playing.

I wonder if this is anything to do with injuries going up over that period of time.
I'm struggling to find a good source of back dated injuries, but came across this article mentioning;

"the club’s injury total almost doubled last season (up from 33 in 2017-18). Over the last three seasons (2016–19), its payouts to injured players more than doubled (110%) — a far higher increase than other top six clubs. "

Source: Spurs injuries doubled last season as spending on sidelined players hit £18m

Perhaps there's a correlation between injured players and a reduction in pressing?
 

Totti

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I wonder if this is anything to do with injuries going up over that period of time.
I'm struggling to find a good source of back dated injuries, but came across this article mentioning;

"the club’s injury total almost doubled last season (up from 33 in 2017-18). Over the last three seasons (2016–19), its payouts to injured players more than doubled (110%) — a far higher increase than other top six clubs. "

Source: Spurs injuries doubled last season as spending on sidelined players hit £18m

Perhaps there's a correlation between injured players and a reduction in pressing?

Higher training levels = less pressing on match day perhaps but capability to be fit throughout the entire year?

No idea.

We definitely seem to have had a lot more injures over the last few seasons though.
 
2017

The anomaly. The one year his future wasn't called into question.

Probably helps that it was our last season at White Hart Lane and we played out of our skin to make sure we didn't drop points there.

Willing to bet, if it wasn't our last season there, we wouldn't have done so well at home.

To think that only 2 years ago we were above City and Liverpool and only 7 points off winning the title.
 
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