The Race for 4th

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Conte needs to work on the fans mentality too.

We, plain as day, have the best team and squad and manager, running for fourth. It is ours, and we shouldn’t rule out third spot either.

Conte expects the players to expect to win each game, no exceptions. We need to adopt that mentality. Including against Liverpool.

Hmmmmmm....

An interesting take on things.

Pochettino got close to changing fans' perceptions but fell at the various last hurdles. In truth Pochettino is still falling short, which is why he may not get the United job.

Conte ain't changing the minds of fans anytime soon but he is raising expectation.

The players should need no convincing unless they are idiots, nor should they need any motivating.

Top 4 is 10 points (maximum) away from 7 games that we should be looking at getting 15 to 21 points from.

I think any reference to Liverpool and us beating them at present is too much of the herby stuff but I get your drift.

If we lose top 4, which I think is highly unlikely if we beat Brighton then all the old references will be rightly laid at our door.
 
Hmmmmmm....

An interesting take on things.

Pochettino got close to changing fans' perceptions but fell at the various last hurdles. In truth Pochettino is still falling short, which is why he may not get the United job.

Conte ain't changing the minds of fans anytime soon but he is raising expectation.

The players should need no convincing unless they are idiots, nor should they need any motivating.

Top 4 is 10 points (maximum) away from 7 games that we should be looking at getting 15 to 21 points from. I think any reference to Liverpool and is beating them at present is too much of the herby stuff but I get your drift.

If we lose top 4, which I think is highly unlikely if we beat Brighton then all the old references will be rightly laid at our door.

10 points is arbitrary nonsense.
 
10 points is arbitrary nonsense.

10 points is a number of points which I think will secure us top 4. Nothing arbitrary in it at all.

Well considered based on our games and a number of points in total that I don't think our rivals could surpass.

Not even sure how you can disagree.

You don't think 67 points would get top 4? I would take it now and be pretty confident..

And if we beat Brighton I think we will get 70 or 71 points. More than enough.
 
10 points is a number of points which I think will secure us top 4. Nothing arbitrary in it at all.

Well considered based on our games and a number of points in total that I don't think our rivals could surpass.

Not even sure how you can disagree.

You don't think 67 points would get top 4? I would take it now and be pretty confident..

With a further possible 21 for us and a possible 24 for Arse.... Yeh, it's just plucked out of your arse.
 
Conte needs to work on the fans mentality too.

We, plain as day, have the best team and squad and manager, running for fourth. It is ours, and we shouldn’t rule out third spot either.

Conte expects the players to expect to win each game, no exceptions. We need to adopt that mentality. Including against Liverpool.
Not sure about that, there's a fine line between expectation and entitlement, ultimately what does it matter to Conte and the squad if the fans adapt that mentality as long as those involved on the pitch have it?

You think we would be more successful on the pitch if the fans were a bunch of spoiled brats like at Man Utd?
 
Not sure about that, there's a fine line between expectation and entitlement, ultimately what does it matter to Conte and the squad if the fans adapt that mentality as long as those involved on the pitch have it?

You think we would be more successful on the pitch if the fans were a bunch of spoiled brats like at Man Utd?

There is never the less a positive, productive way for fans to be......

Fans DO impact the team via the stadium and social media.
 
10 points is a number of points which I think will secure us top 4. Nothing arbitrary in it at all.

Well considered based on our games and a number of points in total that I don't think our rivals could surpass.

Not even sure how you can disagree.

You don't think 67 points would get top 4? I would take it now and be pretty confident..

And if we beat Brighton I think we will get 70 or 71 points. More than enough.

70-71 points is good enough for top 4 more often than not.
Although I think it's fair to gauge our level by looking at our own point tallies in previous seasons to see where we are in relation to the league.

15/16: 70 pts
16/17: 86 pts
17/18: 77 pts
18/19: 71 pts
19/20: 59 pts
20/21: 62 pts

If we can get 71 pts I will be happy with our progress compared with the last 2 seasons and am pretty confident it would be enough for top 4.

If we can push for 73+ points, it will be our 3rd best total in the Premier League ever. Given the shit we have been through this season I think that would be pretty fucking impressive and a massive building block for next season.
 
Hmmmmmm....

An interesting take on things.

Pochettino got close to changing fans' perceptions but fell at the various last hurdles. In truth Pochettino is still falling short, which is why he may not get the United job.

Conte ain't changing the minds of fans anytime soon but he is raising expectation.

The players should need no convincing unless they are idiots, nor should they need any motivating.

Top 4 is 10 points (maximum) away from 7 games that we should be looking at getting 15 to 21 points from.

I think any reference to Liverpool and us beating them at present is too much of the herby stuff but I get your drift.

If we lose top 4, which I think is highly unlikely if we beat Brighton then all the old references will be rightly laid at our door.
You’re right about Poch, we had much more belief but we also never really reached the part where we became real winners, losing semis and finals against the big boys, and in the league too mainly. Conte won’t accept that, we will adopt the attitude where we expect to win, and more often than not we will win. If we face aside with any weakness we beat them. If we face a really good team like Liverpool we compete at the same level. That may not come fully this season because there is a quality hap still, but the beginnings if it hopefully will in terms of attitude and approach. Not arrogance but no more expecting to lose or screw up.

We aren’t going to win every remaining point this season but Conte’sapproach demands we are not far off.
 
Not sure about that, there's a fine line between expectation and entitlement, ultimately what does it matter to Conte and the squad if the fans adapt that mentality as long as those involved on the pitch have it?

You think we would be more successful on the pitch if the fans were a bunch of spoiled brats like at Man Utd?
It matters because it can translate onto the pitch.

I’m not talking about arrogance, not entitlement, i’m talking about doing away with the opposite side of that mirror where fans sometimes have an inferiority complex.

Expecting to win does not mean you always do. Without that expectation though, one of City or Liverpool lose yesterday. That’s the difference. It is why we lost the CL final and why Pool won it.
 
Question - would we be better off if West Ham go through to the semi of the Ropey league?
3 midweek games including this 2nd leg coming up in the QF. They're looking really leggy at the moment. It would be good to keep them in that zone for a few more league games, surely?


Also illustrates what a fucking burden the ropey league is, and that the idea of throwing league games to try and win a knock out competition is insane. More often than not, you'll achieve nothing doing that.
 
Question - would we be better off if West Ham go through to the semi of the Ropey league?
3 midweek games including this 2nd leg coming up in the QF. They're looking really leggy at the moment. It would be good to keep them in that zone for a few more league games, surely?


Also illustrates what a fucking burden the ropey league is, and that the idea of throwing league games to try and win a knock out competition is insane. More often than not, you'll achieve nothing doing that.

Yes and no. We want them to be distracted enough to drop points, but we also need them to be at it against Woolwich
 
They'd throw that game to spite us. Their fans would probably boo their own players off if they won.
I bet there's no team around that would ever lay down and get beat against us or a rival to do us a favour.

Or run on the pitch to put their players off while they’re attacking 🤦‍♀️
 
10 points is a number of points which I think will secure us top 4. Nothing arbitrary in it at all.

Well considered based on our games and a number of points in total that I don't think our rivals could surpass.

Not even sure how you can disagree.

You don't think 67 points would get top 4? I would take it now and be pretty confident..

And if we beat Brighton I think we will get 70 or 71 points. More than enough.
at the risk of sounding pedantic, quoting that you "think" it will secure top 4 means it is an arbitrary number!

I know they won't, but if Gooners win every game they will end on 78pts (and we will have 3 less pts cos we have to play them).

Of course I have no idea about how many pts we need to make absolutely sure top 4 is ours but with 7 games to go, (8 for goons) I'm not quite sure 10 pts will be enough. I think we will need 70
 
It matters because it can translate onto the pitch.

I’m not talking about arrogance, not entitlement, i’m talking about doing away with the opposite side of that mirror where fans sometimes have an inferiority complex.

Expecting to win does not mean you always do. Without that expectation though, one of City or Liverpool lose yesterday. That’s the difference. It is why we lost the CL final and why Pool won it.
I agree that fan attitude is important, as in we need to create a positive, supporting atmosphere, and I think it's perfectly normal to look at many games as games we should win, I just won't ever be able to look at any fixture and think we will win. Whether that be due to 20+ years of supporting Spurs, simply knowing that football doesn't always work that way, or a naturally pessimistic outlook, I don't know.

But I do think a change in fan mentality can be as dangerous as you think it can be positive, there is always a chance of it creating a drab atmosphere as we just wait for our goals to come, and it can lead to a toxic atmosphere in games where things aren't panning out in the way we are expecting them to. I think going too far down the path of fans adopting this mentality and you end like the Woolwich fans that we enjoy laughing at so much...

Whilst there is a mutual relationship between the two, I think any change in attitude needs to stem from the players and the results they achieve rather than the fans, and we just need to support them in achieving that.
 
Sounds like a real kinky bastard to me :contelip:.

Truthfully though, it does work, footballers seem to have the same mentality as young children, you have to use a reward based system to get them to achieve things.

I heard Ndombele worked for big macs but once they stopped doing super sized meals he lost all motivation.

Bargain buckets didn’t work either
 
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