You're right, coz he is a cunt
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Manager Thomas Frank
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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I've no idea what goes on in training/ pre match cos when we come out there is no spark, no flare no passion.
Look at Spence for example. Back at his old club, should have been fired up but as interested as a gay bloke in a brothel. See his reaction to being subbed? Where was the player who forced himself into England selection?
I switched over to watch some of the Sunderland. Their players were positively rabid, throwing themselves into tackles, fighting blood, sweat and tears for the club . Our guys throw their hands in the air and move on. No passion. Spence, Berg, Sarr, Xavi, VDV and Cuti should/must start each game, stop fannying around as if you do not know your best team
I've said this before, but THFC is an entertainment business, not a football club and this malaise is spreading to the team. The players live in luxurious surroundings and are pampered little souls.
As for Frank, I'm not for constantly chopping and changing managers despite the good words posted on this thread. We do need some stability. However, this only works if we can see a system, a consistent approach in team selection and play. We are not. I too believe that defeats to the Dippers and Palace will make his position almost untenable
Look at Spence for example. Back at his old club, should have been fired up but as interested as a gay bloke in a brothel. See his reaction to being subbed? Where was the player who forced himself into England selection?
I switched over to watch some of the Sunderland. Their players were positively rabid, throwing themselves into tackles, fighting blood, sweat and tears for the club . Our guys throw their hands in the air and move on. No passion. Spence, Berg, Sarr, Xavi, VDV and Cuti should/must start each game, stop fannying around as if you do not know your best team
I've said this before, but THFC is an entertainment business, not a football club and this malaise is spreading to the team. The players live in luxurious surroundings and are pampered little souls.
As for Frank, I'm not for constantly chopping and changing managers despite the good words posted on this thread. We do need some stability. However, this only works if we can see a system, a consistent approach in team selection and play. We are not. I too believe that defeats to the Dippers and Palace will make his position almost untenable
this really is a big part of the problem. we're flat track bullies who don't get motivated to play unless we know we're the better team and then we coast on those victories while we don't show up for the hard matches. i really don't like to overly rely on 'emotion' and 'desire' when evaluating teams but we really are a bunch of softies who just want massages and smoothies at the training ground.
The problem Frank has (and always did have) is that's he sees himself as being hired to take over a 17th placed team - a team he finished above with Brentford (albeit having lost twice to that same shit Spurs side). So from his perspective he holds a lot of moral weight.
However, the core playing group of Vic, Cuti, VDV, Udogie, and even Madders/Solanke/Kulu to an extent almost certainly view themselves as European Trophy winners who made gold out of an utter shit show of a season - a shit show of a league season that they don't perceive as being their fault as they were injured for most of it.
When you remember that Cuti and VDV only started 2 league games in the entirety of the post Xmas season - but started every single EL game from March onward - you see the size of the problem Frank has. His job is to tell them they're shit and need to work with him to be not shit. They see themselves as winners being talked down to by some no mark they regularly beat when they played together.
So every time Frank mentions how shit we were last season it means nothing to those guys because they just don't see themselves as responsible for the league shit show.
It's a fucking recipe for disaster and, honestly, I feel for Frank because he was hamstrung before he even came in.
But I don't see it working out.
those players would also run through walls for poch. i don't think it's a coincidence that our more successful managers were former high level pros who could appeal to the players sense of professionalism. it's too easy to ignore people like avb and frank. people like poch and conte and even ange to a degree can look them in the eye and say c'mon mate because they've been there.
It seems to be a classic example of the Peter Principle.
We have to hope whichever teams we play from now on have a bad game and play like Brentford did last week.
Then what happens when it takes too long for Glasner to get a result (like happened at Palace) and he has all the same players still? If Glasner is publicly frustrated with how Palace do business why is he coming to us?
Most modern great managers were middling to bad footballers. The idea that a managers have to be good players is outdated.
Pochettino absolutely had incredible buy in from his playing group for 4 1/2 years. And buy in is everything in team sport.
Unfortunately for Spurs right now, a lot of that buy in was driven by incredible emerging talent in Kane, Eriksen, Lamela, Walker etc etc... I can't quite see that level of quality and professionalism in our squad right now.
It cannot be overstated just how much Harry Kane drove standards amongst the playing group in that era. Frank - or any new manager - needs a similar calibre of player to drive standards in this current group.
An absolute whopper who in that first season had very few injuries, so had team we have now plus a fully fit Maddison, Kulusevski and Son, who got 29 league goals between them.
Our current available squad is a long way behind our team from even 2 years ago.
Is Thomas Frank running out of time as Tottenham manager?
Watching the third goal go in at the City Ground it felt, for the first time, like Thomas Frank’s time as Tottenham Hotspur manager was winding down towards an inevitable conclusion.
www.sportinglife.com
AVB has a higher win percentage than both Conte and Pochettino whilst being Spurs managers.
Not sure about the gay bloke in a brothel analogy, but hey ho.
On the rest, I think it sits on so many levels.
You ask what goes on in training. Good question, but surely Premier League (and international footballers some or most of them), do not need to be trained in how to pass the ball to a team mate?
If Frank is sat on the touchline, presumably watching the crap of yesterday, he sends a clear and unequivocal message, motherly taking a player or players off, regardless of time player in the match.
Yesterday, Frank lost the remaining credit he had with me.
His team selection was predictable but failed to recognise the sense in playing Johnson at his old stomping ground. He kept non-perfprnimg players on for too long and compounded it with substitutions which were so backward as to defy logic.
And what makes Frank's position untenable for me now is that we played so ineptly against a bang average side, having just been on a 3-match unbeaten ru
Both Lverpool and Palace should brush us aside.
The man (Frank) is out of his depth.
This is Frank's fault too if he came in and thought making us solid and being a midtable team was fine for the first year. Listening to all his interviews, it sounds like he is reasonably happy with how its started as he keeps reminding us about the 17th.
I hope our owners gave some sort of goals where he was told to be competing for European qualification or he's out? It does feel like a shit show. As you said, the likes of Romero and VDV played very few games to contribute towards that 17th place finish and they ended the year lifting a European trophy. So to now have to listen to a coach who specializes in midtable finishes tell them they need to change every game and fear the opponent.
Interesting take......
Begs the question; what profile of manager would have suitably commanded their respect?
Back to the Conte/Jose shelf..... ?
....of which; who was available?
If we see some signs that its going in the right direction and the underlying data suggests it is then we back him and give him time. Frank has nothing in his favour. Our results are poor, our style is poor and our underlying data suggests we are overperforming and getting lucky too! There is nothing to cling onto.
Spurs are ahead of Palace in every metric going forward. Lets not kid ourselves. Palace are going to happily lose Guehi and Wharton in the Summer. Spurs won't be looking to sell any players and will have budget to strengthen. Are we spending and behaving like a big 6 club? No - we never spend or even attempt to compete with the other 5. But we are still well ahead of the rest bar Villa and Newcastle in terms of spending and attempting to compete. Glasner would join us.
First steps for any manager, especially after last season, would be to make us solid. And early in Franks tenure I was happy to see a well structured press, more controlled, and a nice solid defensive base.
Felt like the foundations of building a team.
Issue is, since then, that defensive uptick has abandoned him - allowing too many shots/goals from in front of the area.
AND we've made no sign of any progress in attack, no shape, not rehearsed movements, no nothing. Its totally bereft of any attacking impetus/ability/flair...
I think thats how we end up in a situation where it feels the tide is turning against Frank, because the progress just isnt there right now - and thats progress aside from results - its eye-test /underlying stuff.
He needs to adapt, quickly, and show signs of learning. If he can do that he can turn things around - but I definitely have that feeling that time is not on his side and his departure is fast becoming a case of when, not if.
The other issue for him is January. If we are considering a change, we'll also be considering the support that new manager needs - and that opportunity begins in 2 weeks and ends in 6 - which means there is a literal ticking clock....
This whole thing about managers need time is a load of old bollocks.
There are so many examples of managers coming in and making immediate impacts at clubs. The default argument always seems to be "managers need time". They don't, and they rarely get it for obvious reasons.
It's a game of football. People try to overcomplicate it, like managers need to come in and work out quantum theory before they can get performances and results. It's a game, it's 11 v 11, a manager can come in and get results just by motivating the players more than the opposition, especially with a squad like ours.
Sure, motivation often doesn't work if you are Burnley playing City, but if you are Spurs, a manager getting the players fighting for their shirt will beat the likes of Fulham and Forest most of the time, and they will certainly put up better showings against the likes of Chelsea and Woolwich. Or evewn if results are not there, they go down punching. Where was the punching in those games eh?
This is for me where it is obvious Frank is not the right man.
The absolute bare minimum of a manager is to get fight, blood, sweat and tears out of players, the tactics and style of playing does take time. But if you aren't even doing the first bit, why should you stay?
Dyche came in at freefall Forest, wins at Anfield 3 nil, beats us 3 nil. ANd that's mostly just by getting the players pumped up and fighting for their shirt. Klopp made an immediate impact at Liverpool.
Emery turned it around instantly at Villa.
We have a lot of talented players even if we do need to upgrade on a few others. You can't tell me an attack with Muani, Simons and Kudus can't muster a short on target in 90 minutes against Forest? absolute bollocks.
There are so many examples of managers coming in and making immediate impacts at clubs. The default argument always seems to be "managers need time". They don't, and they rarely get it for obvious reasons.
It's a game of football. People try to overcomplicate it, like managers need to come in and work out quantum theory before they can get performances and results. It's a game, it's 11 v 11, a manager can come in and get results just by motivating the players more than the opposition, especially with a squad like ours.
Sure, motivation often doesn't work if you are Burnley playing City, but if you are Spurs, a manager getting the players fighting for their shirt will beat the likes of Fulham and Forest most of the time, and they will certainly put up better showings against the likes of Chelsea and Woolwich. Or evewn if results are not there, they go down punching. Where was the punching in those games eh?
This is for me where it is obvious Frank is not the right man.
The absolute bare minimum of a manager is to get fight, blood, sweat and tears out of players, the tactics and style of playing does take time. But if you aren't even doing the first bit, why should you stay?
Dyche came in at freefall Forest, wins at Anfield 3 nil, beats us 3 nil. ANd that's mostly just by getting the players pumped up and fighting for their shirt. Klopp made an immediate impact at Liverpool.
Emery turned it around instantly at Villa.
We have a lot of talented players even if we do need to upgrade on a few others. You can't tell me an attack with Muani, Simons and Kudus can't muster a short on target in 90 minutes against Forest? absolute bollocks.
That's above my pay grade. I'm literally all out ideas.
I'm just praying we sign/unearth another Kane type leader who drives standards from within the playing group - and then find some young progressive manager with fresh ideas and enthusiasm.
Basically I want a time machine to back to 2014
I think its fair to say it takes time to build the long term vision.
If we had designs on some total football type set up, it could take a number of seasons to get the foundations in place, squad in place, and evolve in stages to the desired level
However, the idea that you cant expect more in the short term "because time" just isnt true. We can expect more of Frank at this stage that we are currently seeing, so the criticism is valid - providing its within reasonable expectation.
I think our squad has some weakness and some imbalance, but I also think its capable of far more than we are seeing now.