Manager Thomas Frank

[BJK]

Not sure how Kulusevski or Maddison would've helped with these sequences that we see over and over again every game. All are from the first 15 minutes of a single game by the way.









Kulusevski would've gotten the ball in the exact situations that Kudus does: His back towards the goal, closer to the touchline where it acts like another defender, and more often than not double teamed.

And Maddison would've gone through stretches without touching the ball, with his thread filled with posts accusing him of being a fairweather player who often disappears when things get tough.

This combination of mediocre personnel and some of Frank's eccentricities has led us to become one of the worst teams in the league in progressing the ball through midfield. We go through halves and games without anything resembling a chance not mainly because our attackers are terrible, but because the ball just doesn't reach to them to begin with.

There's a glimmer of hope that selling the farm in January for a deep playmaker (who?) could change things, but then Frank doesn't seem to have a great issue with the status quo. For starters, he wouldn't have stuck with that double pivot as long as he did otherwise .

 

[Phomesy]

Indeed, it's stinky

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What you're failing to appreciate here is just how much better coached we are as a team now.

Sure we're winning less, creating much fewer chances; conceding more chances, can't get anywhere near the opposition box and are lower on the table...

But we just look so much better now we have a steady hand on the tiller


Next manager will sort us out. WE GO AGAIN!

 

[Richard Splash]

Are we?

The barometer of 'bigger club' is always open to varied metric interpretations, but for me it's if a player is joining a club as a starting 11 player, who would they choose?

We probably pay a bit more in salaries but think we're on a a reasonably level field with them.

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Yes we are by some distance as well. They’ve won nothing in Europe (fuck off with the fairs cup) their last title was 100 years ago, they’ve won 1 league cup in 70 years and they’ve spent plenty of time in the lower divisions.

 

[Richard Splash]

What you're failing to appreciate here is just how much better coached we are as a team now.

Sure we're winning less, creating much fewer chances; conceding more chances, can't get anywhere near the opposition box and are lower on the table...

But we just look so much better now we have a steady hand on the tiller


Next manager will sort us out. WE GO AGAIN!

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Frank not being the right manager does not mean Ange was either - as proven by his Forest stint and VDV comments

 

[Phomesy]

Frank not being the right manager does not mean Ange was either - as proven by his Forest stint and VDV comments

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I must have have missed the bit where I said stated Ange was the "right manager". Can you point me in the direction of that statement I never made?

For the millionth time - I am not and have never made the argument that Ange Postegolou is the "right manager". All I've ever said is that he was not the only cause of our issues (our mediocre squad is).

 

[CaptainCabinets]

Isn't that said about every window, every season? Answer: Yes, it is.

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This is true and I see it a lot (ditto 'must win game'). I tend to think that's recency bias at play. I try to avoid making such statements unless I really believe it.

And here I am. We are a mess to the point it's not beyond the realms of possibility we are going down (although unlikely at this stage).

We have a lame manager, pathetic players, and a board apparently wanting 'more wins more often'. Up until the end of January all three have something to prove otherwise they might not get much longer (in ENIC's case, fan patience. It will get as toxic as the end of Levy very quickly.)

 

[scarletjim]

This is true and I see it a lot (ditto 'must win game'). I tend to think that's recency bias at play. I try to avoid making such statements unless I really believe it.

And here I am. We are a mess to the point it's not beyond the realms of possibility we are going down (although unlikely at this stage).

We have a lame manager, pathetic players, and a board apparently wanting 'more wins more often'. Up until the end of January all three have something to prove otherwise they might not get much longer (in ENIC's case, fan patience. It will get as toxic as the end of Levy very quickly.)

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Hold on though, let's be sensible - it's ludicrously unlikely that we are going down - we have about 70% more points than the team in 18th (I know some dumb people will say "but that's only 9 points" - yes because only 16 games have been played - but having 70% more points than the team in 18th by this stage of the season would be an incredibly unusual position from which to get relegated (especially given that Wolves are as good as gone already)). BUT that aside, I agree we're in a terrible place. I just don't think that has very much to do with the January window - it's incredibly rare to bring in multiple key players in that window, and even if we did, the consensus on here seems to be that both the players and also the manager are failing, so if Frank (as it seems from watching games) has no real plan, then a couple of new players isn't going to change that.

Also, when you talk about "all three" having something to prove, only the owners have significant influence over the window, so a 'good window' can't be driven by Frank (not in any real sense) or the players, they have to get on with their own jobs. Will ENIC care that much about fan patience? If the main fan problem is the manager, and the board agrees / is unsure about Frank, then it would be strange for the board to then spend large amounts on new players for him. I might be wrong, just my view.

What I will grant you is that it could be a more important winter window than some, despite the usual knicker-wetting posters saying that every single one is the 'most important in this century' etc or other such hyperbolic nonsense. It was only meant to be a tongue-in-cheek comment tbh, and I do appreciate your sentiment.

PS RE: "The end of Levy" - can you believe there some idiots on here who genuinely seem to believe that his leaving was effectively their doing - as if after ignoring their moaning for 20 years, the club suddenly decided to listen to them, rather than quite rightly having made that decision 100% irrespective of them.

 

[8andA1/2Peppers]

Are we?

The barometer of 'bigger club' is always open to varied metric interpretations, but for me it's if a player is joining a club as a starting 11 player, who would they choose?

We probably pay a bit more in salaries but think we're on a a reasonably level field with them.

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We've won more than 20 trophies post war. They've won 4.

Vastly more fans worldwide.. Higher revenue.

No "metric interpretations" you can find puts them on our level, or anything close to our level.. They're a favourite club of a lot of the press for some reason.. But they need to worry about whether they're neccesarily a bigger club than Sunderland before they start comparing themselves to us.

 

[Pathfinder]

David Ornstein Issues Thomas Frank Sack Update at Tottenham as Club Make Decision

Thomas Frank’s position at Tottenham Hotspur is not under any immediate threat.

www.givemesport.com

Ornstein, speaking on NBC Sports, revealed that while Tottenham are discussing Frank and his position in regular meetings, there is no suggestion the Dane is under any immediate threat:

“The word coming out of Tottenham Hotspur tonight is that they fully support Thomas Frank, and they are backing him.
“That the leadership at the club, of course, now it's in a more full-on way, the Lewis family, after Daniel Levy was sacked in September, you could say this was a first sort of true test of their control of the club.
“And everything we're hearing at the moment is that they are squarely behind Thomas Frank and that they want to see improvement in the team, and also, of course, results.
“Now it's been a particularly difficult period for them, and there is concern in the fan base clearly.
“There are regular meetings taking place, and we're told that within these meetings, of course, Thomas Frank and his position are discussed, but not in an abnormal way, and there's no suggestion coming to us that he is under any immediate threat.”

 

[Notabadsquad]

Not sure how Kulusevski or Maddison would've helped with these sequences that we see over and over again every game. All are from the first 15 minutes of a single game by the way.









Kulusevski would've gotten the ball in the exact situations that Kudus does: His back towards the goal, closer to the touchline where it acts like another defender, and more often than not double teamed.

And Maddison would've gone through stretches without touching the ball, with his thread filled with posts accusing him of being a fairweather player who often disappears when things get tough.

This combination of mediocre personnel and some of Frank's eccentricities has led us to become one of the worst teams in the league in progressing the ball through midfield. We go through halves and games without anything resembling a chance not mainly because our attackers are terrible, but because the ball just doesn't reach to them to begin with.

There's a glimmer of hope that selling the farm in January for a deep playmaker (who?) could change things, but then Frank doesn't seem to have a great issue with the status quo. For starters, he wouldn't have stuck with that double pivot as long as he did otherwise .

Click to shrink...

Maddison, Kulusevski and Solanke would have helped and then some of these things don't happen, but that is because the dynamic and play is different, and of course if they play, others don't.

I mean it's not hard honestly.

Having now seen Frank overseeing proceedings for 4 months, my concern is how all above would react to his messaging, if we are forced to accept the weird and imperfect spectre of Postecoglou continues to loom large.

 

[Matt1882]

Tottenham brass sticking with Thomas Frank

It’s not the dreaded Vote of Confidence, but it’s close!

cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com

Sooooo, looking at alternatives whilst being committed to sticking it out with Frank.
Sounds like someone is shagging around while staying married. Cause it's fully committed, innit.

 

[Kaz Hirai]

David Ornstein Issues Thomas Frank Sack Update at Tottenham as Club Make Decision

Thomas Frank’s position at Tottenham Hotspur is not under any immediate threat.

www.givemesport.com

Ornstein, speaking on NBC Sports, revealed that while Tottenham are discussing Frank and his position in regular meetings, there is no suggestion the Dane is under any immediate threat:

“The word coming out of Tottenham Hotspur tonight is that they fully support Thomas Frank, and they are backing him.
“That the leadership at the club, of course, now it's in a more full-on way, the Lewis family, after Daniel Levy was sacked in September, you could say this was a first sort of true test of their control of the club.
“And everything we're hearing at the moment is that they are squarely behind Thomas Frank and that they want to see improvement in the team, and also, of course, results.
“Now it's been a particularly difficult period for them, and there is concern in the fan base clearly.
“There are regular meetings taking place, and we're told that within these meetings, of course, Thomas Frank and his position are discussed, but not in an abnormal way, and there's no suggestion coming to us that he is under any immediate threat.”

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He'll get till summer as he probably should unless things get really dangerous with the league table

Don't expect him to stay past may though unless the turn around is epic

 

[Notabadsquad]

I said of Frank a while back and I think quite important.

He has no voice in the dressing room or amongst the players. I don't mean his own, but no one he brought with him from Brentford. No compatriot. No one it seems who thought 'great' Frank's coming in.

Potter had the same at West Ham, and arguably Postecoglou at Forest, although slightly different given the circumstances of his appointment.

Look at Amorim. Average at best for his time at United, but he is clever and lucky that he has the captain, who he always plays and who of course is his compatriot. Makes a massive difference and buys a degree of loyalty, and a voice of support.

Frank can't turn this round in my opinion. I hope he proves me wrong but the players aren't going to run through walls for someone they don't care too much about.

 

[coughymachine]

Hold on though, let's be sensible - it's ludicrously unlikely that we are going down - we have about 70% more points than the team in 18th (I know some dumb people will say "but that's only 9 points" - yes because only 16 games have been played - but having 70% more points than the team in 18th by this stage of the season would be an incredibly unusual position from which to get relegated (especially given that Wolves are as good as gone already)).

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I don't think we'll go down, but we shouldn't look at the 'season-to-date' points tally without at least being aware that current form paints a much more worrying picture.

We've picked up just 5 points over the last 6 games. Of the 9 teams below us, only Wolves, Burnley and Bournemouth have picked up fewer points. All the others, with the exception of Leeds (who also have 5) have picked up more. With our next two fixtures being Liverpool (H) and Palace (A), it wouldn't be surprising to see us battling with Brentford for 15/16 by the time we face them on NYD.

 

[Fattynomates]

David Ornstein Issues Thomas Frank Sack Update at Tottenham as Club Make Decision

Thomas Frank’s position at Tottenham Hotspur is not under any immediate threat.

www.givemesport.com

Ornstein, speaking on NBC Sports, revealed that while Tottenham are discussing Frank and his position in regular meetings, there is no suggestion the Dane is under any immediate threat:

“The word coming out of Tottenham Hotspur tonight is that they fully support Thomas Frank, and they are backing him.
“That the leadership at the club, of course, now it's in a more full-on way, the Lewis family, after Daniel Levy was sacked in September, you could say this was a first sort of true test of their control of the club.
“And everything we're hearing at the moment is that they are squarely behind Thomas Frank and that they want to see improvement in the team, and also, of course, results.
“Now it's been a particularly difficult period for them, and there is concern in the fan base clearly.
“There are regular meetings taking place, and we're told that within these meetings, of course, Thomas Frank and his position are discussed, but not in an abnormal way, and there's no suggestion coming to us that he is under any immediate threat.”

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Lose Against Liverpool Saturday with our usual 0 shots on target the whole game and then get tonked by Palace then I really don't see how he turns it around, the ground could become Toxic Saturday, the "we want Levy out" will just become the "we want Enic out" chant.

 

[Shadydan]

Lose Against Liverpool Saturday with our usual 0 shots on target the whole game and then get tonked by Palace then I really don't see how he turns it around, the ground could become Toxic Saturday, the "we want Levy out" will just become the "we want Enic out" chant.

Click to shrink...

The fans will want that, board wont.

 

[postbox]

We're at home, I think if he sets us up as an away side with a low block/try to contain them approach and lacks a bit of bravery - he'll be on the wrong foot right off the whistle.

 

[8andA1/2Peppers]

Managers don't "get till the summer" come what may. You can't lose every week with the crowd getting more and more restless while the board does nothing.. The fact that last season was something akin to that was strikingly odd.. But what the last manager had, was the always winnable Europa League campaign ticking along that the club didn't want to disrupt.. And a cult of personality.. The current manager has neither.. There's no such thing as "they're backing him". He has to start turning the form round or he's done.

 

[Notabadsquad]

We're at home, I think if he sets us up as an away side with a low block/try to contain them approach and lacks a bit of bravery - he'll be on the wrong foot right off the whistle.

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Not really sure there are that many teams which attack Liverpool. I don't think we are capable, and neither do I believe Frank would set us up in such a way.

Expect Wirtz and Isak to score.

Much as I think the game of assessment is against Palace, a heavy loss against Liverpool (very possible) and significant fan displeasure, and Frank's gone.

The risk of keeping a bloke who just seems overawed by the playing demand is too great.

 

[scarletjim]

I don't think we'll go down, but we shouldn't look at the 'season-to-date' points tally without at least being aware that current form paints a much more worrying picture.

We've picked up just 5 points over the last 6 games. Of the 9 teams below us, only Wolves, Burnley and Bournemouth have picked up fewer points. All the others, with the exception of Leeds (who also have 5) have picked up more. With our next two fixtures being Liverpool (H) and Palace (A), it wouldn't be surprising to see us battling with Brentford for 15/16 by the time we face them on NYD.

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Agreed, but a recent run of bad form is exactly when any fan of any team starts looking at the bottom 3. And most teams will have a bad run at some point. But yes I do agree with you that when we've picked up our points is worrying, i.e we've gotten worse as the season has gone on, well so far anyway. So I do see your point.