Tonight has really opened my eyes to the issues we face.

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I’m not worried. Unlike Poch, Mou will simply drop people who don’t do what they are told. He already dropped Rose, one of our worst and most bigheaded players. After today, he will be questioning some others as well. Poch was too soft and too loyal to some of them, to win you need to be ruthless.
In a way, a loss could serve us well in the long run since it does paint a much clearer picture for Mourinho of the overall mentality of the squad and players.

One loss here or there is not a problem, losses are part of football. It is how you handle them and move on that is important so that we don't end up stringing together a series of them.
 
Tonight was a real fucking eye opener. We need half a new team at least. Impossible to buy and integrate a new defence but it needs it. Midfield is a mess. Not sure how long Winks can be persevered with. I personally think he's dogshit. The front 3/4 were piss poor. Can anyone in this squad string 2 decent performances together. Is it that much to ask?

Thats a f*cking kneejerk right here.
Are you even serious "Can anyone in this squad string 2 decent performances together. Is it that much to ask?" - Dele has been bang on brilliant every single game since Mou came on board. Aurier was very-very good for first 3 games. I see little issues with Jan as LB. Sanchez has generally been really good in the defense line.

But hey, last game weak = no team member has had good game in their life, right?!?
 
Thats a f*cking kneejerk right here.
Are you even serious "Can anyone in this squad string 2 decent performances together. Is it that much to ask?" - Dele has been bang on brilliant every single game since Mou came on board. Aurier was very-very good for first 3 games. I see little issues with Jan as LB. Sanchez has generally been really good in the defense line.

But hey, last game weak = no team member has had good game in their life, right?!?
Let's not go overboard. Dele has been good I agree but can't say the same for the others.
 
We don’t have a midfield. Last night we saw Mourinho try to address that by getting them to hit the ball long. Didn’t work.

We need a DM and to figure out a consistent CM pairing. I don’t think Winks or Sissoko should be first choices for that. They’re committed, but not technically good enough.
 
Also, yes, it is a knee jerk. After a few wins against some of the worst opponents to date (whilst still conceding lots of goals) a few have been acting like it’s problem solved and Top 4 is back on.

We’re nowhere close. We have fundamental problems in our side and players that aren’t good enough. The game has moved on.

Let’s enjoy the cups this season and focus on developing our younger players.
 
You have to be realistic as well as optimistic.
It was United at Old Trafford. Yes they have been poor, but they have lost just 1 game at home (Palace, first home game), conceded 8, held Liverpool to a draw, and raised their game for us too.

We have 1 away win since Jan, so to think our problems were resolved on the road due to clutching on to a 3-2 win in Stratford would be naive.

16 goals we have conceded on the road in 8 games. Only 3 teams have conceded more (17) - Watford, Villa and Everton.
To break out of the shit we have been, especially on the road - will take more than 1 win.

Don't get me wrong - that really hurt me. I couldn't sleep well because of it, mulling over individual moments. Yet I do see a positive in that it allows Mourinho to now be critical of the players in a different way as they didn't get away with it last night.

Since Mourinhos arrival he has given players a fresh slate, a new chance to perform for him. While we were winning - things didn't need to change. Keep picking similar starting 11s with the same formation. Great while it lasts, but it would always inevitably fail at some point.
Once again our subs off and on were based around our central midfield under performing. Winks, Sissoko, Dele, Eriksen, Lo Celso and Ndombele at got out there. Moura had one of those now familiar days where he is fucking useless. Balls were even bouncing off Son like I'm not used to watching.

Now his job starts. Next up is Burnley at home. You can learn more from defeats than victories - which often paper over cracks. We have a great tactician in charge now - he understands the game better than Spurs fans calling for heads to roll on the back of a 1 goal defeat away at Old Trafford.

That game did not make or break our season. Top 4 is still on. The teams above us will play each other to drop points - and drop more points here and there like at the weekend.

Rome wasn't built in 2 weeks.
 
Our issue nr 1 and issue nr 2 is midfield and once more midfield.

We literally have 0 in-form-good-enough midfielders now. How can you play football like this?Midfield is where you win or lose games.

What are our options there ? I'll try to put them in list by 3 factors (form, ability, understanding the teammates/gameplan) , I reckon, it is massively subjective, don't focus on that if you can -
- Sissoko - clearly gets weak points from ability, but previous game showed that some time off benefitted him, and he almost (!) look like acceptable box-to-box option to use. He tracks and covers fullback area as well. Though his passing ability is an issue. And he makes bad / clumsy decisions in defense, demonstrated by penalty.
- Ndombele - uuh, this pretty much kills me the most, ability wise he should be ahead of the pack, but in real life... his fitness is so non-existent that it effects every aspect of his game. Not only does he need to build stamina to handle full games. His first steps are also rather slow, hence in games where midfield is more packed / we are not given time, he cannot perform well enough. When he has even bit of time, we have seen what he is able to produce. Worryingly though, I see 0 improvement in his condition form Aug to Dec so far...
- Winks - he is kind of mistery for me. At times he looks as a decent option. At other times he makes very basic mistakes. I don't think he is defensively solid enough to play more of a DM role. And his passing ability is in fact limited. He can play the shorter-safer passes, but no defense-splitting balls / quick diagonals across the field. I think that he could only be really effective in 3 man midfield. But not in CM duo.
- Dier - well, we've seen some of him, and even though I really hope he can regain the form of his best days, I don't fully believe in it anymore. Cant make quick enough decisions. Not fast enough. Gets caught in easy situation against midfields of lesser opposition. It starts to seem that he could be our "squad player" and 1st option from the bench, but I doubt he will be the consistent starter for us if we want to aim high. I hope I am wrong on this though.
- Lo Celso - we don't know anything about him, and he doesn't know anything about his teammates in actual competitive game. Just played 160 minutes of EPL football. That influences both - his match sharpness and understanding of teammates. Right now, both are pretty much non-existent. Couldn't even tell what might be his best position.
- Skipp - no playing time. Not given a chance even to come on for dying minutes. Ability COULD be there, but hard to tell. In preseason games and in this EFL game still seemed to be physically too weak. And seemed to miss quite some easy passes in only competitive game where he really played. Not sure how much could we expect from him this season.
- Wanyama - he is finished unfortunately. Can't run, can't pass. Mentioning him here just out of respect of this one good season. Not even really a squad member nowardays.

It is hard to expect much from games when all of your midfield options... what's the sientific term... suck balls? :D

It is very-very-very clear that we need quality DM player. If not 2. Not making this position nr 1 priority after we got Ndombele was absolutely colossal mistake. And I hold this against Poch. Went after Dybalas and Coutinhos (or even Lo Celso) while we mostly needed DM.

But to survive this month or two until we get in new DM it seems logical to swich to CM trio. Given form and ability of our players we could use something like -

---------Kane-------Son------
----------------Alli-------------
-Ndombele-Skipp-Sissoko-

Or

---------Kane-------Son------
----------------Alli-------------
-Ndombele-Skipp-Winks-

Or

---------Kane-------Son------
----------------Alli-------------
-Ndombele-Dier-Lo Celso-

Or any other combination of those.
At least we have now decent nr 10 who could play angled passes and make late runs behind the strikers.
I think Ndombele, based on the ability should be mainstay, but all other players are up in the air... because it seems we have a lot of weak options currently.
 
This is the reaction after 1 loss, Mo is in big trouble, people are expecting him to win the prem and or the champions league with this squad.
 
This is the reaction after 1 loss, Mo is in big trouble, people are expecting him to win the prem and or the champions league with this squad.

I believe that Mourinho can fix things, my question was, what's it going to take to fix it though? And are these players good enough?

My thoughts from last night was that this team isn't as good as I thought it was and we are going to need some signings to fix the issues we have but like Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 I have concerns around the sort of transfers we will make.

United are utterly shocking and we made them look like City/Liverpool for most of the game.
 
I'm not sure why people are so shocked by what happened or is currently happening - Poch over achieved with what he had. Our squad is fundamentally flawed and requires a serious overhaul - one I believe the club can not afford.
 
I believe that Mourinho can fix things, my question was, what's it going to take to fix it though? And are these players good enough?

My thoughts from last night was that this team isn't as good as I thought it was and we are going to need some signings to fix the issues we have but like Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 I have concerns around the sort of transfers we will make.

United are utterly shocking and we made them look like City/Liverpool for most of the game.
I'm not shocked by anything, unlike some people I didn't ONLY blame Poch for the slump and I knew that the real works starts once the honeymoon is over and now it's over.
It will take time to fix things and for Jose to try new things out that might come at a cost of no top 4 and no trophies this season. I think people should just suck it up for now, they demanded a change in manager and they got their wish.
 
Not sure about that.
Rashford just got the ball and ran straight at our defence, causing chaos. Nobody stopped him.
That is not exactly a tactic.

Spot on.

Utd actually scored off a penalty and a goalkeeping error.

Yes, they were the better team but it wasn’t anything tactical. They had more energy and commitment and most of our players played poorly
 
I'm not shocked by anything, unlike some people I didn't ONLY blame Poch for the slump and I knew that the real works starts once the honeymoon is over and now it's over.
It will take time to fix things and for Jose to try new things out that might come at a cost of no top 4 and no trophies this season. I think people should just suck it up for now, they demanded a change in manager and they got their wish.

I agree with you, I still think it was right to change manager, Poch was never going to fix these issues, I believe Jose will, I just thought it might have been easier but clearly we have some real rotten eggs in terms of attitude and some players that simply aren't good enough.

I wasn't expecting trophies or top four this season with him joining mid-season anyway.

But he MUST and I mean, MUST get top four and a trophy next season, anything less is unacceptable.
 
I agree with you, I still think it was right to change manager, Poch was never going to fix these issues, I believe Jose will, I just thought it might have been easier but clearly we have some real rotten eggs in terms of attitude and some players that simply aren't good enough.

I wasn't expecting trophies or top four this season with him joining mid-season anyway.

But he MUST and I mean, MUST get top four and a trophy next season, anything less is unacceptable.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, we've got several players that are out of contract in the summer and no funds or very little funds to replace them. Jose is the most decorated and experienced manager that we can get, if he's sacked it will be all downhill from there.
 
If you believed that Poch deserved the full blame for our poor run of form, you were probably way too unfair to him. Likewise, if you think that it was all on the players and he was blameless, you were blinded by your affinity for Poch.

If you think that with Mourinho coming into this and grinding out three wins on the bounce that all of our issues were fixed, your expectations are likely way too high and haven't been realistic about some of our deficiencies.

The cracks were still visible in the past two games, the wins were just able to paper over them.

I am not traditionally a fan of Mourinho but I am giving him a chance to show a new side of him, and to give him the time to do what needs to be done to address our issues. He has an outstanding base of players to work with but there are clearly weaknesses in the squad. January will be a very interesting time for us, and despite this loss I'm feeling more optimistic that I have in a long time.
Great post
 
But he MUST and I mean, MUST get top four and a trophy next season, anything less is unacceptable.

You need to relax. You veer from being desperate to get Poch out, lauding Mourinho as the saviour to now being the first to lay down an 'unacceptable marker'.

After one loss.

This team needs a complete rebuild. Might take one season, might take three, might take longer. But we need to get out of this 'we're owed Top 4 football' stuff.

Stop worrying about where we are in the table and focus on the quality of football we play.
 
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