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some poor reasoning skills there sir
1) equating taking a knee with looting and rioting = you've already conflated two very separate issues and exposed yourself as someone who has no intention of understanding the nuances of black resistance.
2) can't tell if you've watched it or not, but you most likely haven't = someone who makes up their mind about something based on no evidence before actually engaging with it. hiding behind terms like 'woke' and 'brainwashing.' meaningless terms. are interviews, footage, and statistics not enough for you? don't engage if you've already made up your mind.
3) you're all over the place here - taking the knee was against racism in football. like monkey chanting and shit. even ledley himself has said that multiple times in interviews. why on earth are you bringing in random unrelated points like selection statistics? if there were only black players in the entirety of world football and people still made monkey chants, does that mean racism doesn't exist? do you even think through what you write?
Ban them for what?
If they’re booing taking a knee, then they must support the views that it’s against? Ergo, they support discrimination in all its forms. It’s quite clear that the gesture is no longer attached to BLM as repeated statements have made clear, so they can’t pretend that one anymore.
If you campaign or express unhappiness with people making a stand for equality, it’s not a long leap to assume you support inequality: with this gesture in particular it means they’re not the kind of fan I want to be sharing a stadium with. If nothing’s done, then it becomes okay and you get the divisive politics of the past ten years all over again.
If you campaign or express unhappiness with people making a stand for equality, it’s not a long leap to assume you support inequality: with this gesture in particular it means they’re not the kind of fan I want to be sharing a stadium with. If nothing’s done, then it becomes okay and you get the divisive politics of the past ten years all over again.
Ahead of the Sky Bet Championship match, the topic of players taking a knee was discussed on Millwall's fans forum and a statement from the first-team squad was published on the official club website on Friday.
It read: "As a squad we are fully supportive of the entire football family's efforts in ridding the sport, and society generally, of all forms of discrimination.
"It is our duty as players to reinforce the positive messaging and action of clubs, community trusts, charities and governing bodies, and we do so with great pride and knowledge that so much good work is being done up and down the country.
"The gesture of 'taking the knee' before matches provides an opportunity for us to do exactly that and continues to allow all those playing to publicly showcase their support - on behalf of the whole squad - for the fight against discrimination.
"We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout.
"We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club."
I can see how this might be confused with a communist manifesto.
But you're okay supporting far-right movements though?
So many racists on this site, they'd feel more at home on a Millwall forum.
Lee bloody Rigby? As if you give a fuck about Lee Rigby. You care about the colour of the crazed nut jobs who killed Lee as well as their religion but you don't care about the man himself so don't pretend that you do.
Millwall fans are a disgrace. Ban their fans from all games until the end of the season. Only way they'll learn, same for any other club. You can tut loudly if you like or turn your back or wait underneath the stands if it offends you that much but don't be a neanderthal prick and boo.
Personally feel booing is a bit insulting from the Millwall fans and not needed. That being said Millwall fans don’t seem to care about opinion.
On a side point however I have never been one for coercive symbolism. I am not a monarchist and would not want to take the knee for the Queen, and while I have worn poppies before I often don’t and that whole you must have a poppy thing I find quite tiresome. Both my grandads served in WW2 and both where cynical barstards like me.
In regard to the players long as it’s not some forced act and they can make a choice without consequence I don’t have an issue.
If someone doesn’t want to take the knee that doesn’t make them a KKK member anymore than someone who doesn’t ware a poppy hates his country. For me I would rather get rid of taking the knee, the national anthem, poppies and all the other stuff at Sports events but that’s just my view.
On a side point however I have never been one for coercive symbolism. I am not a monarchist and would not want to take the knee for the Queen, and while I have worn poppies before I often don’t and that whole you must have a poppy thing I find quite tiresome. Both my grandads served in WW2 and both where cynical barstards like me.
In regard to the players long as it’s not some forced act and they can make a choice without consequence I don’t have an issue.
If someone doesn’t want to take the knee that doesn’t make them a KKK member anymore than someone who doesn’t ware a poppy hates his country. For me I would rather get rid of taking the knee, the national anthem, poppies and all the other stuff at Sports events but that’s just my view.
I want to come with a confession here.
I've changed my mind.
After reading the comments to the chairman of Colchester I got a better understanding of what taking the knee symbolises for the players and the clubs.
I still think the Premier League did wrong with connecting it wholeheartedly to BLM and its organisation.
They have created more rift between people rather than unite them, and some of the extreme arrogance and self proclaiming moral supremacists on this site shows that.
As I've stated previously, I'm more than happy to support No racism campaigns and racial equality, but I had problems with identifying myself to the more leftist BLM agenda. That's why I've been against taking the knee.
I'm willing to listen to serious and well articulated arguments about most subjects in this world, and I'm still willing to learn and open to say that I sometimes can add new perspectives to my mind. And I'm still in the right to disagree with some of it and emphasise my viewpoints. So yes, it's possible to go from wanting to boo (which I in hindsight think is classless about such an important subject), to go silent and to maybe be willing to applaud it.
I think civilised well articulated conversations and ideas-sharing contributes to a better world rather than adhere to name calling, ignoring, trying to inflict shame and distancing each other. Be nice and try to understand why other people may have different perspectives on different subjects.
Thank you.
-Karl
I've changed my mind.
After reading the comments to the chairman of Colchester I got a better understanding of what taking the knee symbolises for the players and the clubs.
I still think the Premier League did wrong with connecting it wholeheartedly to BLM and its organisation.
They have created more rift between people rather than unite them, and some of the extreme arrogance and self proclaiming moral supremacists on this site shows that.
As I've stated previously, I'm more than happy to support No racism campaigns and racial equality, but I had problems with identifying myself to the more leftist BLM agenda. That's why I've been against taking the knee.
I'm willing to listen to serious and well articulated arguments about most subjects in this world, and I'm still willing to learn and open to say that I sometimes can add new perspectives to my mind. And I'm still in the right to disagree with some of it and emphasise my viewpoints. So yes, it's possible to go from wanting to boo (which I in hindsight think is classless about such an important subject), to go silent and to maybe be willing to applaud it.
I think civilised well articulated conversations and ideas-sharing contributes to a better world rather than adhere to name calling, ignoring, trying to inflict shame and distancing each other. Be nice and try to understand why other people may have different perspectives on different subjects.
Thank you.
-Karl
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Pssst taking a knee doesn't end racism and it certainly doesn't end it when it's millionaires who drive lambos that are doing it.
How many more weeks, months, years even does it need to go on for?
It's an empty statement a vague platitude that does nothing, who is actually helped by this "action"?
How many more weeks, months, years even does it need to go on for?
It's an empty statement a vague platitude that does nothing, who is actually helped by this "action"?
I'll take a stab at it.
There seems to be this strange desire by some to disassociate Black Lives Matter the organization from BLM the social movement, and use this to ignore the very real problems that one could (and I would say should ) have with that organization. Almost as if the organization itself is some distraction technique to avoid dealing with racism. But it's not. Black Lives Matter an organization, not a movement, and you know how I know?
Because it started in 2013, not 2020.
BLM was started as a response to the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, who was NOT a police officer, and also is Hispanic. It was NOT to protest police brutality. It was NOT to protest the history of discrimination. It was an expression of outrage, because America was not sufficiently outraged at this random kid being shot by this random asshole, and supposedly this was proof of widespread white supremacism.
It was a straight-up accusation to white America of simply not caring about black people. That's why the slogan itself is so divisive: when you shout "black lives matter!" at someone, demanding their agreement, you're not simply raising awareness or making a plea for help; you're instead accusing that person of being racist until they prove otherwise to your personal satisfaction. That's the reason why, at first, the hashtag response was All Lives Matter, because it was an attempt to diffuse that accusation, but naturally, it was treated as some sort of white supremacist dog whistle, because bone-headed arguments where neither side understands the other is all that American politics is capable of producing.
From that point, an organization was formed, comprised of mostly racist ideologues who know nothing about history, dedicated to bring about an end to white supremacism, which naturally they claim is embedded into the fabric of western society, because white people are inherently racist etc. (yes, the irony forever eludes them). The overthrow of capitalism and democracy, both of which they imagine were created to cement white oppression of non-whites, is their proposed final solution to the disease of whiteness which supposedly plagues the globe. They are not shy about any of this, and yes they celebrate the fact that they are "cultural Marxists", and no I am not exaggerating.
The reason why most believe it is a movement, however, is because following the mass outrage to George Floyd's death, the organization saw a golden opportunity to thrust themselves into the centre of the conversation, and become the face of the protest/outrage. That's also why all the same problems contained in their message and their slogan were writ large across the face of the culture war. The sentiment behind the protests was never really reflective of the sentiments of the BLM organization, but because they successfully made their slogan the vanguard of the 'cause', the waters have become sufficiently muddy for it to no longer matter.
If the 'movement' doesn't want to be tarred with all the criticisms of the organization, then there is a simple yet effective solution: change the bloody name. Maybe something more inclusive, like I dunno All Lives Matter? And if you can't stomach such an admission that the other team were actually right all along, then how about something like: Discrimination Needs To End?
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As for the kneeling, well, it doesn't bother me, it just doesn't overly impress me either. I respect the players and their right to express themselves, and I can, as others here suggest, simply wait 10 seconds and then my life continues without missing a beat, especially since they're doing it of their own volition, and not being shoved out there as a PR stunt to make the Premier League look good on Twitter.
Booing that gesture is indeed an expression of free speech, but so is condemning the boos, so that topic is moot to me, but it does have to be said: if you open up an encyclopedia and turn to the "Football Fans Most Likely To Do Racist Things" section, Millwall have a whole page to themselves.
Sometimes a spade is a spade, even though we should be careful not to judge too quickly in most cases.
politics is in everything whether you like it or not
when Guardiola puts a yellow ribbon for Catalan independence, it's politics
when people use Irish, Scottish, protestant, and catholic imagery during the Old Firm, it's politics
when Juventus fans call Napoli dirty and disgusting and non-Italian because of their working-class background, it's politics
when a black player gets monkey chants, it's politics
when Lazio fans brandished a 50-metre banner around the Curva Nord that read, "Auschwitz is your town, the ovens are your houses," it's politics
taking a knee is fucking nothing - get a grip and get educated.
people who say there is no place in politics for X are just saying they don't want THAT politics
don't hide behind that nonsense, it's a piss-poor argument and indicative of poor critical thinking
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