Tottenham Hotspur Versus Redbull Leipzig 19/02/2010

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You’re now shifting your argument to his overall contribution when deployed up front whilst now admitting he’s a quality ‘goal scorer ‘ but not ‘striker ‘


this is heung min son we’re talking about not tony cottee

he’s a great striker .... move on

Your entitled in your opinion mate but I'm basing mine off watching him Evey minute almost this season and the last 3. He's a good plan B at striker in a pinch but he's not a specialist there. When he's on a purple patch he'd score goals at CB but he's overall game doesn't suit a guy leading the line never has.

And the club more then likely know that and will be looking at bringing in a proper ST to cover Harry this summer. But the risk we took not getting on in Jan was awful IMO and cost us on Wednesday and will likely cost us points in the PL also that was my point
 
said a similar thing in the Jose thread.

There is a sect of fans that can see that even with shiny new toys, we are going to continue to play a conservative game until the later stages of the game. Very hard to watch, but proven to get results. Then there is the other sect that thinks with shiny new toys, a new breed of Jose is going to come out, a Pep/Koop hybrid or a more progressive version of this Jose.

I just don’t see the latters POV. If he gets his DM and a big body up front to support Kane when he needs a rest, we are going to be even tighter in the back and more focused on quick attacks via the flanks and the target man.

And so the debate continues. Style over Substance...

The catch is we have invested in a manager that prefers the latter and thus, we as fans, have to put up with it for the time being. I don’t foresee a long Jose stint, but I sure do miss the days of high intensity football that had us challenging for the PL and in Europe.
The simplest way I can define it is the two teams (Spurs, RBL) played in the image of thier manager’s.

I would have more confidence in us if we were playing Jose’s brand well. But we don’t execute well on what Jose’s teams are famed for. Jose’s teams suffocate the opposition, don’t allow them to play.

If we went into games being actually good at being a classic José team I think I could be more hopeful that we could use that as a platform to build off and develop some attacking patterns too.
 
I'm talking about what we could do with now and how we be hamstrung when injuries occur.

If Winks or Dier get injured we have ways we can work around it, even if it won't look the best. When Kane gets injured we lose our focal point and purely rely on Son.

We need both in my view. A DM to be a starter and a FWD to offer depth. As it stands there's only one of these that are going to stitch us up from now until the end of the season and I know if offered which one is the safe bet moving forward. We finished top 4 last season with Winks as DM, we are currently 5th with him as DM. We could have better but with no striker it absolutely batters the team so both slots come with massive importance and both need addressing.

I agree we need both.

In your question it was said "Would DM be higher priority" - to which answer was "Yes".

kind of pointless bringing out where were we last season with X or with Y. Last year with very limited Kane involvement we reached CL final, and when he was out in Jan-Feb we won 4 games in a row in league without him. That does not mean we'd be better off without him.

Also in previous seasons we finished higher without having Winksy playing DM, if you want to play this game... :D

Anyway - I stick to my point, getting proper DM who would help to control the game is with higher priority in my books that buying 2nd striker. Striker can give us option 2 as "vocal point" in attack, but we have no "vocal point" in midfield to start with.
 
If Jose was more expansive, it would have ended like the Bayern game, their players were very quick and we couldn’t cope. This is still Poch’s team not Jose’s. It’s work in progress Rome wasn’t built in one day.

No it wouldn’t. What a ridiculous comment.

So basically we can now never play expansive in a game against a good side because we got spanked by Bayern.
 
No it wouldn’t. What a ridiculous comment.

So basically we can now never play expansive in a game against a good side because we got spanked by Bayern.

Against quality organised sides like Leipzig without key players starting, yes.

We have no DM, our two best attacking players are injured and one of our best midfielders is unfit.

The fact it ended 0-1 is a blessing. And one that should absolutely give us hope.
 
Is that the same A Madrid that just beat the unbeatable Liverpool that are dominating the EPL?

Mourinho go 2nd EPL (arguably 1st) and won Europa League with a crap united squad. Won the league with Chelsea before that.

Jose has always played the tactic that he feels will win the match. That can be parking the bus; or all out attack.

People labelling tactics as outdated are simply regurgitating crap from pundits on TV; who are simply being critical to make themselves sound clever - can somebody remind me how Shearer and Neville performed as football coaches ?
Yes, that Madrid, the exception to the rule in relation to modern tactics, as I said in my original post.

No one is “regurgitating the opinion of pundits”, most of those cunts don’t have a clue about the game. It’s evident to see, as it was at Utd and towards the end of his second Chelsea tenure, Jose sets up incredibly defensively against any team he perceives as a threat. He lost Utd the tie against Sevilla with that attitude. Sometimes it works and is correct. Had we adopted that strategy against Barca, I would have understood.

As it was we paid too much respect to this Leipzig team that aren’t as good as we made them out to be, and who were missing their 3 first choice CB’s. They came to win, we came not to lose. At home. With better players.

You’ve trotted our Jose’s recent successes, I’m not disagreeing with that and think having him increases our chances of picking up silverware. It’s not the football I want to see but I’ll support him. But when he gets his tactics wrong in a big game like this week he deserves to be called out.
 
Against quality organised sides like Leipzig without key players starting, yes.

We have no DM, our two best attacking players are injured and one of our best midfielders is unfit.

The fact it ended 0-1 is a blessing. And one that should absolutely give us hope.
Against a team that had their first 3 CB’s injured. Against a team that as soon as we exerted some pressure on were pinned back and unable to get any possession or territory.

Call it as you see it but feels like excuses to me. We passively let the game go.
 
Against a team that had their first 3 CB’s injured. Against a team that as soon as we exerted some pressure on were pinned back and unable to get any possession or territory.

Call it as you see it but feels like excuses to me. We passively let the game go.

We only started putting any kind of pressure on them when we had our best central midfielder on the pitch.

The fact he wasn't available from the start and we were missing our two best attacking players to test their inexperienced centre halves probably shows you why we couldn't go into the game in the same manner.

I expect we'll play similar away to how we did for most of the game at home. (Unless Ndombele starts) - try and stay resolute defensively and hope to get something on the break.
 
Against a team that had their first 3 CB’s injured. Against a team that as soon as we exerted some pressure on were pinned back and unable to get any possession or territory.

Call it as you see it but feels like excuses to me. We passively let the game go.

We lose our 3 CBs, Alderweireld, Sanchez and Vertonghen and look who we have to fill in.....Foyth, Tanganga, Dier & Davies.

Leipzig definitely had it kinder on the injury front and we were coming off of a Sunday game whereas they played Saturday. Not to mention the vastly bigger winter break the German teams get to have compared to our lot.
 
It's the same as claiming Willian Jose was available for 22m ... if so there would have been a dozen buyers, he has a buy-out clause of €70m so why would Sociedad sell for two thirds off? by all accounts they wanted €25m up front with add-ons rising to €40m, he's just not proven to be that good.

Barca could have bought him yesterday by paying the buy out clause, they went for Braithwaite instead.
You have no idea of how the Spanish buy-out clause system or the clause that allowed FCB to buy outside the window work.

The add-ons rising to €40 million thing isn't right either
 
We only started putting any kind of pressure on them when we had our best central midfielder on the pitch.

The fact he wasn't available from the start and we were missing our two best attacking players to test their inexperienced centre halves probably shows you why we couldn't go into the game in the same manner.

I expect we'll play similar away to how we did for most of the game at home. (Unless Ndombele starts) - try and stay resolute defensively and hope to get something on the break.
Just to clarify, do you genuinely expect that if we had a fit first XI, the tactics would be different? This is the issue, I’m certain they wouldn’t do.
 
He didn't impress me. He missed a sitter Kane would have buried and didn't do that much throughout. It doesn't mean he wouldn't be good for us (on the contrary), but I wouldn't call him amazing either.
Not based on this particular match, but overall he has been amazing this season (26 goals + 10 assists), 23 years old.

People might say Kane is crap based on his performance against for instance United this season.
 
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Not based on one game, overall he has been amazing this season.

Of course, it would be a fallacy to base this on one game. I think I've seen enough of him to say that he's one of the better strikers out there, but not the top of the lot. I'm not saying my views on him can't change and it might also be down to the fact that we Kane to spoil us and his standard is so high.

Good luck to us signing someone of his level in the summer.
 
He didn't impress me. He missed a sitter Kane would have buried and didn't do that much throughout. It doesn't mean he wouldn't be good for us (on the contrary), but I wouldn't call him amazing either.
Nagelsmann has been working hard to make him less one-dimensional by getting him more involved in the build-up play. I have seen him miss many sitters. With his pace, obviously he is an extremely dangerous player who suits a counter-attacking team very well. He is not wiping his arse with footballing intelligence.
 
Of course, it would be a fallacy to base this on one game. I think I've seen enough of him to say that he's one of the better strikers out there, but not the top of the lot.
He's only 23 years old and certainly could become an elite striker in Europe, we will see how he will do at a club like Liverpool or Real in the future.
 
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Just to clarify, do you genuinely expect that if we had a fit first XI, the tactics would be different? This is the issue, I’m certain they wouldn’t do.

I think if we had a competent central midfield, one of the best strikers in the world and arguably our player of the season all playing, then yes. I think we'd play a different way and go toe to toe.
 
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