Tottenham Vs Newcastle - Sunday 27th Sept, 2pm KO.

Dr Rocktopus

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I agree with all that, I would say however that there has always been a problem with the word "deliberate". Excluding handballs like the one in Macedonia or Luis Suárez's against Ghana in the World Cup, where the intention is obvious, the rest of the time you are essentially asking the referee to read the mind of the defender.

Secondly, as Jamie Carragher (I think) once pointed out, no player deliberately handles the ball (again, with the aforementioned exceptions or where there is blatant cheating - Hand of God etc.) for the simple reason that it's against the rules of the game. It's like saying that no player deliberately takes a double touch when taking a free kick - it happens and should be penalised, but no player would think it a cunning trick they could try out to confuse the other team.

For example, do you remember the NLD at the Death Star, when we were 2-0 down and pulled it back to win 2-3? The equaliser was a penalty converted by VDV after Fabregas or some other cunt who was in the wall at a free kick had jumped up with both hands above his head and stopped the ball flying goalwards. Was it deliberate, - did Fabregas make a conscious decision to defend the free kick in that way? Probably not. Was it handball, punishable with a penalty? Quite clearly.

I was thinking of the Fabregas incident yesterday. As you say, not necessarily intentional, but clumsy and an obstruction that deserved to be penalised.

Plus it was cesspit so fuck him.
 
I agree with all that, I would say however that there has always been a problem with the word "deliberate". Excluding handballs like the one in Macedonia or Luis Suárez's against Ghana in the World Cup, where the intention is obvious, the rest of the time you are essentially asking the referee to read the mind of the defender.

Secondly, as Jamie Carragher (I think) once pointed out, no player deliberately handles the ball (again, with the aforementioned exceptions or where there is blatant cheating - Hand of God etc.) for the simple reason that it's against the rules of the game. It's like saying that no player deliberately takes a double touch when taking a free kick - it happens and should be penalised, but no player would think it a cunning trick they could try out to confuse the other team.

For example, do you remember the NLD at the Death Star, when we were 2-0 down and pulled it back to win 2-3? The equaliser was a penalty converted by VDV after Fabregas or some other cunt who was in the wall at a free kick had jumped up with both hands above his head and stopped the ball flying goalwards. Was it deliberate - did Fabregas make a conscious decision to defend the free kick in that way? Probably not. Was it handball, punishable with a penalty? Quite clearly.


Yeah that's the point of the rule I think Bill it's to stop people have there hands in daft positions like above they heads or spread out.

If your running at the player with the ball arms out like your a keeper then fair enough.

Like Neville said the issue is that the refs are interpreting the rules all wrong. There not taking distance into account or if a player jumps.

Diers arms where in as natural a position as can be yesterday and the balls 1m away if that when Carrol just heads it at him.

You know it's bad when even the oppo manager is calling it a disgrace. The rule as is ain't surviving the next international break, but it doesn't change it's already robbed us of 2 points gifted Liverpool and United 3 each. And at the end of the season those points could make all the difference

Just genuinely disgusted with it all atm footballs becoming like WWE all basically scripted and about the drama
 
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I agree with all that, I would say however that there has always been a problem with the word "deliberate". Excluding handballs like the one in Macedonia or Luis Suárez's against Ghana in the World Cup, where the intention is obvious, the rest of the time you are essentially asking the referee to read the mind of the defender.

Secondly, as Jamie Carragher (I think) once pointed out, no player deliberately handles the ball (again, with the aforementioned exceptions or where there is blatant cheating - Hand of God etc.) for the simple reason that it's against the rules of the game. It's like saying that no player deliberately takes a double touch when taking a free kick - it happens and should be penalised, but no player would think it a cunning trick they could try out to confuse the other team.

For example, do you remember the NLD at the Death Star, when we were 2-0 down and pulled it back to win 2-3? The equaliser was a penalty converted by VDV after Fabregas or some other cunt who was in the wall at a free kick had jumped up with both hands above his head and stopped the ball flying goalwards. Was it deliberate - did Fabregas make a conscious decision to defend the free kick in that way? Probably not. Was it handball, punishable with a penalty? Quite clearly.


I agree that it's not always as deliberate as Suarez v Ghana, that's where the referee has to interpret the action. A player in a wall, facing the ball with arm above head which blocks a free kick? Penalty, no doubt. Dier's one yesterday? For me that's a clearly accidental and non-punishable type of handball.
 
I don't think they even need to change the rule, I don't think that's possible until the next IFAB meeting in March anyway. But surely PGMOL can offer clearer guidance to referees, they are interpreting the rule in a stupid way. When a ball is struck at a player from a metre away, it should rarely ever be a penalty.
 
I'm encouraged. Now that I've had time to think about US rather than the stupid interpretation of the rules.

When we smashed Saints, as we did Leicester last season, there was a nagging doubt that we could only play "on the break", against teams who come at us. Yeah, but what about the 12 teams in the PL who sit back and hit you on the break? It'll just be like Poch teams at their worst, aimlessly passing the buck, sorry, ball, winning the possession stat (!!!), but ending up 0-0, 0-1 whatever.

Well yesterday we tore one of those borefest teams to pieces, created loads of chances, hit the post, bar, and if we played like that against all the other borefest teams, then we'll beat them 90% of the time. Which I'm happy with.

Now all we need to do is get Llorente back again. That way we have a Plan C to go with when A and B don't work.
 
Another point to mention is how disappointing Bergjwin was in the second half.

We really lost almost all attacking impetus once he came he on. He just did... nothing.

Seems to have regressed a bit and is not imposing himself on games at all right now.
 
I thought it was an all round good Spurs performance.
Yes we need to bury our chances, but the keeper played a blinder. Another day and all that.
As for the VAR decision. What happened to the distance of the offending player etc.
Utter bollocks. Newcastle deserved nothing out of that game, yet got a share of the spoils. Man u got a penalty after the game had finished Saturday and Chelsea shouldn't have been awarded their late equaliser because of a foul.
All in all a very bad weekend for VAR.
Who was the pundit commentating on the game? Was it Jamie Carragher ?
He got it spot on. Trouble is,we don't get any thing back because a pundit sees it for what it is.
Gutted
 
Having calmed down (well not really) I watched the game again this morning with a more sober perspective - it was by far our best performance for a very long time.

If you ignore goals, and I know you can't, we dominated every aspect of that game - Winks and Hojbjerg showed a glimpse of what they could become, Doherty took a big step forward in his fitness and acclimatisation, the front three created numerous chances and the back four allowed just one shot on goal.

By far Newcastle's best player was Darlow - three world class saves in one match MoM by a country mile.

Stats don't mean bugger all when the score is 1-1 but on most days these stats would have spelt 5-0

Possession 66 - 34
Shots 23-6
On Target 12-1
Passes 640 - 319
Saves made ZERO - 11

When luck and VAR are not on your side blaming the players or the manager is just being a complete dick, sadly this forum has more than its fair share.

that's the thing, we played really well for lots of the game and created chances. These things happen, we were robbed but a season doesn't go by when this doesn't happen to every team at some point. I would be far more worried if we put on a shit show. We still have players to come in Tanguy looks much improved. We need to keep creating chances and burying them.

Hopefully this will ignite the fire in their bellies. Jose will use this to our advantage.
 

The difference is that Gabriel is facing the ball, can see it coming and still handles it, Dier isn't even looking at it. It was far more of a penalty than the Dier one.

But they made some cock and bull story about the ball hitting Gabriel on the T of his shirt so it doesn't count.

basically they make it up as they go along and have enough confusing clauses and grey areas that they can justify whatever decisions they want.
And we all know these kind of calls aren't ever going to go against the likes of Liverpool.
 
Another thing from yesterday.
Carroll was deemed to be not interfering with play in the the VAR decision ,that led to the "handball" being looked at.
I know he is a donkey,but how can a centre forward running into the penalty area when his team is attacking NOT be interfering with play?
It brings the old cloughie comment to mind...
 
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