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...but then you create a new problem - where does the arm end and the body begin? You're just moving the problem a few inches.The thing with VAR that absolutely must change is these armpit offsides. They are guessing what's underneath a players shirt sleeve and assigning an arbitrary line to where they think their upper arm probably begins. Then ruling out goals because of it.
I think everyone would accept offside decisions via VAR if they just ignored the arms. There will be painfully tight ones but if we are judging them by the position of the head/feet/trunk then it's fine. Everyone has had those ones for and against them and they are clearly demonstrable.
You cannot be ruling out goals by a 1cm offside by estimating where a players upper arm begins. If the arm is the only part of the body that is beyond the offside line then it shouldn't be given offside. They need to change the rule.
Said it pre introduction. The mistakes are amplified making any good that's achieved redundantScott Parker made the same point I made months ago - people can accept a ref's mistake in real time, but they are still making mistakes after using VAR. What a joke it is.
Was just thinking why don't we have a system with the refs that release their match reports at the end of every season. It would mean transparency for fans and would go a long way into us understanding some of these decisions better.
If you see a full report of each match decision, why it was made at the time it could help the referees a lot. We all know mistakes are made, but football is opinions and while some errors are just plain errors, some can be borderline and I can give a ref the benefit of the doubt if they draw a conclusion that I don't agree with because I know football can sometimes be borderline decisions such as was a tackle a foul etc.
It will also show many times they get decisions correct and if people can see for example OK that ref made an error in this particular match, but he got this and this correct across these matches with no real problems, or even within the same match as he made a big error, just something in writing fans can go to as a reason.
The silence for me is what kills fans and your left scratching your head.
The standard is offside is offside.They used hands instead of armpits to work out offside in that game. There is no set standard of what to use to decide close offsides. After investing all that in technology, why not set a clear standard as well.
Yup, it should be the furthest part of the body. But sometimes they use both players arms , or feet or hands. Its just based on what the ref has decided that day instead of a set rule.The standard is offside is offside.
Isn’t that the whole point? Finger, toe doesn’t matter
Yup, it should be the furthest part of the body. But sometimes they use both players arms , or feet or hands. Its just based on what the ref has decided that day instead of a set rule.
I'm not 100% sure that "i gave that penalty so I don't get death threats from scousers" or "i sent player x off cos there was a bag of money in the dressing room" will make the reportsWas just thinking why don't we have a system with the refs that release their match reports at the end of every season. It would mean transparency for fans and would go a long way into us understanding some of these decisions better.
If you see a full report of each match decision, why it was made at the time it could help the referees a lot. We all know mistakes are made, but football is opinions and while some errors are just plain errors, some can be borderline and I can give a ref the benefit of the doubt if they draw a conclusion that I don't agree with because I know football can sometimes be borderline decisions such as was a tackle a foul etc.
It will also show many times they get decisions correct and if people can see for example OK that ref made an error in this particular match, but he got this and this correct across these matches with no real problems, or even within the same match as he made a big error, just something in writing fans can go to as a reason.
The silence for me is what kills fans and your left scratching your head.
The thing with VAR that absolutely must change is these armpit offsides. They are guessing what's underneath a players shirt sleeve and assigning an arbitrary line to where they think their upper arm probably begins. Then ruling out goals because of it.
I think everyone would accept offside decisions via VAR if they just ignored the arms. There will be painfully tight ones but if we are judging them by the position of the head/feet/trunk then it's fine. Everyone has had those ones for and against them and they are clearly demonstrable.
You cannot be ruling out goals by a 1cm offside by estimating where a players upper arm begins. If the arm is the only part of the body that is beyond the offside line then it shouldn't be given offside. They need to change the rule.
You mean they would accept them just like last season, when the "armpit offsides" were not a factor ?.
It doesn't matter what the criteria for setting offsides are, be it just feet, 10cm, clear space, whole body, exclude arms, there will always be a line somewhere, and people will not accept them if they are 1mm either side of that line.
Well yeah, there is always going to be a line. But the principle they are applying now is just stupid. Take that Ings one from last night.
How has he gained an unfair advantage by 0.5 cm of his shirt protruding beyond the last defender? Too many good goals are being ruled out for infractions that belong in a trigonometry class and not a sport.
There are limits to how strictly we should apply technology to the game. We could use 3D replays to check whether every throw in is taken from the exact right spot, but would that be an appropriate use of our time and technology? No, which is why we don’t do it.
I don’t know exactly what the solution is but I think most people would tolerate a slightly more lenient application of offside, at least when it comes to looking at players arms. We are applying a level of punishing technological accuracy to the sport that is not possible for the human beings on the pitch to replicate.
They need to refocus on the clear and obvious error principle. When Ings scored, the linesman kept his flag down and the referee signalled that it was a goal. Based on the fraction of shirt poking beyond the defender, is it a clear and obvious error to give the goal? No. I’d rather they make decisions like that rather than ruling out so many good goals for offsides that no linesman could see ever see in real time.
I agree and disagree in equal measure.Was just thinking why don't we have a system with the refs that release their match reports at the end of every season. It would mean transparency for fans and would go a long way into us understanding some of these decisions better.
If you see a full report of each match decision, why it was made at the time it could help the referees a lot. We all know mistakes are made, but football is opinions and while some errors are just plain errors, some can be borderline and I can give a ref the benefit of the doubt if they draw a conclusion that I don't agree with because I know football can sometimes be borderline decisions such as was a tackle a foul etc.
It will also show many times they get decisions correct and if people can see for example OK that ref made an error in this particular match, but he got this and this correct across these matches with no real problems, or even within the same match as he made a big error, just something in writing fans can go to as a reason.
The silence for me is what kills fans and your left scratching your head.