Vincent Janssen

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ArcspacE

ENIC OUT NOW !!! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Yes, 18M! How is your memory so shit? To busy trolling I guess. When the alternatives dried up because of Levy dithering Vinnie's club did an Ashley and raised the price. Do you really not remember that? We went in at 11 or 12M IIRC...then Batshuayi was gobbled up by Chelsea, (I think) Alario went to Leverkusen and we were stuck with our dicks in our hands and had to scramble. Is this not the pattern?

And what does DeLigt being a defender have anything to do with my point of Poch's first choices being decent (or challenging your point about no eye for talent)? I always have an idea...and to use "again" you would have to at least show proof of 'no idea' a first time legoboy.
You’re the even a funny troll anymore. In fact - you never were
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
If you conveniently ignore the fact that Vinnie was a cheap alternative to Michy Batshuayi that year. Jog your memory? Welp, that was the pattern and I believe this was the xfer that 'final strawed' that transfer dude Mitchell. But, as always, it's better to run with the narrative to get a bit of a foothold in discussions. You know, "Poch no eye for talent" while neglecting that he wanted DeLigt and that Barca dude and all the other ones he wanted but couldn't get like Wijnaldum and Mane but getting Sissoko and N'Koudou. It's like folks choosing their fav posters on here but being denied their first 125 and getting stuck with you. Can't really conclude they have no eye for talent can you?
Just to clarify, you're claiming that he actually wanted Michy Batshuayi rather than Janssen as evidence that he does have an eye for talent???
 

todd1882

Airfixx's cup final
Just to clarify, you're claiming that he actually wanted Michy Batshuayi rather than Janssen as evidence that he does have an eye for talent???
Yes, I am claiming that the Belgian national team player that Bielsa recommended, Chelsea sunk pre-Neymar 40M into, BVB utilized with surgical precision to terrorize the BuLi and wanted to sign permanently, and Paul Mitchell's breaking point with Levy is evidence of an eye for talent. In fact, if he still has the desire to play, learn and improve I'd take him now.

Let me guess, you think striker = goals right? Bielsa is very happy with Patrick Bamford right now. Would you have had Bamford in your team a few years ago? I ask this because he's pretty high on the scoring list this year so I'm sure you would now. But you wouldn't have a few years ago.
 

VirginiaSpur

Supporter
"Intelligent but stupid" - Ahab
Yes, I am claiming that the Belgian national team player that Bielsa recommended, Chelsea sunk pre-Neymar 40M into, BVB utilized with surgical precision to terrorize the BuLi and wanted to sign permanently, and Paul Mitchell's breaking point with Levy is evidence of an eye for talent. In fact, if he still has the desire to play, learn and improve I'd take him now.

Let me guess, you think striker = goals right? Bielsa is very happy with Patrick Bamford right now. Would you have had Bamford in your team a few years ago? I ask this because he's pretty high on the scoring list this year so I'm sure you would now. But you wouldn't have a few years ago.
Batshuayi has not had a good or successful time in the Premier League.
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
Yes, I am claiming that the Belgian national team player that Bielsa recommended, Chelsea sunk pre-Neymar 40M into, BVB utilized with surgical precision to terrorize the BuLi and wanted to sign permanently, and Paul Mitchell's breaking point with Levy is evidence of an eye for talent. In fact, if he still has the desire to play, learn and improve I'd take him now.

Let me guess, you think striker = goals right? Bielsa is very happy with Patrick Bamford right now. Would you have had Bamford in your team a few years ago? I ask this because he's pretty high on the scoring list this year so I'm sure you would now. But you wouldn't have a few years ago.
I wouldn't take Bamford now either no, I'd definitely take him over Batshuayi though, nothing you say about him has anything to do with actually being any good, and whilst you are right that being a striker is more than just goals, goals are still a pretty fundamental part of that job.

Know what else helps? Actually getting on the pitch, which he's also not very good at. For Crystal Palace.
 
Here's a gif of an American character called Todd getting repetitively slapped...

giphy.gif
 

todd1882

Airfixx's cup final
Batshuayi has not had a good or successful time in the Premier League.
Yes, but why is that? And what circumstances and expectations would have been different had he come to us as janssen did? I believe that would have been the year we were GD and creation leaders.

I wouldn't take Bamford now either no,
Why wouldn't you take Bamford now?

nothing you say about him has anything to do with actually being any good
Are all other xfers 100% successful? If so, then you have a point. If not, then everything is a projection and at that time there was only 1 winner in the projection stakes between Batshuayi and Janssen. Which brings us back to Poch wanting him but getting Janssen.

Which did you want at the time?

and whilst you are right that being a striker is more than just goals, goals are still a pretty fundamental part of that job.
And yet you wouldn't take Bamford now? Interested to see your reasoning.

Yes, to many it is fundamental but to some there is the more precise recognition that the job is actually to convert the chances that come your way (IE goal creation is not an intrinsic quality of a striker but chance conversion/efficiency may been seen as such). Batshuayi does and did this with aplomb in Marseille and BVB and Janssen wheezed his way to missing many a sitter.

Know what else helps? Actually getting on the pitch, which he's also not very good at. For Crystal Palace.
Remind me, how many points did we take from Palace this season?
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
Yes, but why is that? And what circumstances and expectations would have been different had he come to us as janssen did? I believe that would have been the year we were GD and creation leaders.


Why wouldn't you take Bamford now?


Are all other xfers 100% successful? If so, then you have a point. If not, then everything is a projection and at that time there was only 1 winner in the projection stakes between Batshuayi and Janssen. Which brings us back to Poch wanting him but getting Janssen.

Which did you want at the time?


And yet you wouldn't take Bamford now? Interested to see your reasoning.

Yes, to many it is fundamental but to some there is the more precise recognition that the job is actually to convert the chances that come your way (IE goal creation is not an intrinsic quality of a striker but chance conversion/efficiency may been seen as such). Batshuayi does and did this with aplomb in Marseille and BVB and Janssen wheezed his way to missing many a sitter.


Remind me, how many points did we take from Palace this season?
I wouldn't take Bamford now because I've not watched Leeds at all this season, so I would literally only be going off of his goals scored, and I'd always be wary of a striker moving up from the championship and having 1 good season in front of goal, it seems to happen fairly often. I'm not bothered enough to check but I'm also not sure his numbers are even enough to make me take much notice anyhow.

I'm not pitting Janssen against Batshuayi, so projections are irrelevant, though a good record in France vs a good record in Holland is hardly a gaping chasm in quality that suggests there was a clear superior.

What I am saying is that you can't point to having wanted to sign Batshuayi as proof of a good eye for talent. That's batshit mental, since then he has done nothing to suggest we missed out.

You can point to his 10 games for irtm if you like, if that's proof for you then good for you, I doubt it's enough for many.

We took 4 points from Palace, I have no idea whatsoever that does to give credence to the notion that their reserve striker is actually really amazing. Another thing I can say about Palace is that Christian Benteke is keeping him out of the team, and he's dog wank. And yes, Benteke scored against us in our 4-1 win, he's still dog wank.
 

todd1882

Airfixx's cup final
I wouldn't take Bamford now because I've not watched Leeds at all this season, so I would literally only be going off of his goals scored, and I'd always be wary of a striker moving up from the championship and having 1 good season in front of goal, it seems to happen fairly often. I'm not bothered enough to check but I'm also not sure his numbers are even enough to make me take much notice anyhow.
So you've not seen Bamford but know you wouldn't take him because...reasons and it suits the point you are trying to make? fair enough.

I'm not pitting Janssen against Batshuayi, so projections are irrelevant,
Really? Projections are literally the basis of making these decisions as to which player you'd prefer. And they are based on skillset and actual play. Weird you'd want to discount the very idea of them. You pick a player on what you think they'd do for you going forward not solely base on what they've done. We just did that with a manager and how'd that work out for us? If we had looked at what he had to offer going forward and not all his 'winning' in the past we might not have made that choice.

And beyond that these two players were being evaluated against one another so comparing and projecting is totally relevant.

And you didn't answer my question so I will ask again, which did you want?

though a good record in France vs a good record in Holland is hardly a gaping chasm in quality that suggests there was a clear superior.
Do you watch Ligue 1? I do and I would suggest that this statement of your is wide of the mark. And beyond that Bats is still in the PL and Janssen is making tortillas.

What I am saying is that you can't point to having wanted to sign Batshuayi as proof of a good eye for talent.
And what I am saying is that wanting Bats THEN over Janssen THEN is supportive of him preferring a better player to the player that Poch was being castigated for...and that decision did not utilize the benefit of hindsight that you are luxuriating in at this moment.

Again, which did you want back then?

That's batshit mental, since then he has done nothing to suggest we missed out.
What is batshit mental is you propping up this strawman to knock down. Who has said anything about "we missed out" besides you right here? No one did so let's just drop this point.

You can point to his 10 games for irtm if you like, if that's proof for you then good for you, I doubt it's enough for many.
What's this got to do with anything? Again, this debate is about 4 or 5 seasons ago and any data since that point is tangential to the point at hand. The debate was which player AT THAT TIME would become the better player for us.

If you respond feel free to directly address my points as I have for yours. I know they can be particularly inconvenient to the perspective you are trying to hold but that's whats going to get us to resolution.
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
So you've not seen Bamford but know you wouldn't take him because...reasons and it suits the point you are trying to make? fair enough.


Really? Projections are literally the basis of making these decisions as to which player you'd prefer. And they are based on skillset and actual play. Weird you'd want to discount the very idea of them. You pick a player on what you think they'd do for you going forward not solely base on what they've done. We just did that with a manager and how'd that work out for us? If we had looked at what he had to offer going forward and not all his 'winning' in the past we might not have made that choice.

And beyond that these two players were being evaluated against one another so comparing and projecting is totally relevant.

And you didn't answer my question so I will ask again, which did you want?


Do you watch Ligue 1? I do and I would suggest that this statement of your is wide of the mark. And beyond that Bats is still in the PL and Janssen is making tortillas.


And what I am saying is that wanting Bats THEN over Janssen THEN is supportive of him preferring a better player to the player that Poch was being castigated for...and that decision did not utilize the benefit of hindsight that you are luxuriating in at this moment.

Again, which did you want back then?


What is batshit mental is you propping up this strawman to knock down. Who has said anything about "we missed out" besides you right here? No one did so let's just drop this point.


What's this got to do with anything? Again, this debate is about 4 or 5 seasons ago and any data since that point is tangential to the point at hand. The debate was which player AT THAT TIME would become the better player for us.

If you respond feel free to directly address my points as I have for yours. I know they can be particularly inconvenient to the perspective you are trying to hold but that's whats going to get us to resolution.
I'm not reading all that mate, I got as far as the first 2 points so I'll address them. Bamford has 14 goals this season, is late 20's, and has been average all his career, so no I wouldn't be falling over myself to get him here.

Projections are relevant when looking at signing players, they would have been wrong in projecting a decent career for Batshuayi because he's been shit. Projections are irrelevant to the fact that you're an idiot if you think wanting to sign Batshuayi way back when shows an eye for talent, because all he's shown since that point in time is that he would have been just as shit as Janssen for more than twice the price.
 

ChrissyWaddleShares

Bringing the mullet back to N17
Yes, 18M! How is your memory so shit? To busy trolling I guess. When the alternatives dried up because of Levy dithering Vinnie's club did an Ashley and raised the price. Do you really not remember that? We went in at 11 or 12M IIRC...then Batshuayi was gobbled up by Chelsea, (I think) Alario went to Leverkusen and we were stuck with our dicks in our hands and had to scramble. Is this not the pattern?

And what does DeLigt being a defender have anything to do with my point of Poch's first choices being decent (or challenging your point about no eye for talent)? I always have an idea...and to use "again" you would have to at least show proof of 'no idea' a first time legoboy.
Didn’t we sign Vinny in July? He was one of those rare(ish) beasts that were over the line early in the TF.

Also, Poch did persist with him for a run of a few games early in the season with Kane injured - so he obviously saw something in him, otherwise he’d have done the Sonny-up-front thing earlier. There’s a a load of rewriting of history going on in this thread: Levy paid well; he was brought in early; Kane got injured; turns out the EPL is much harder than playing in Holland - end of story really.

For the Batshit story, he’s also hardly set the world on fire.

And, no, no-one would have bought Bamford a few years ago because he was, rightly, playing in the Championship. However, with a few seasons of a team built around him and in a system that operates really well for him, then he shines. However, like Vardy at Leicester, he suits a team that plays a certain way. Top players improve any team. Not sure Bamford would do that now as he doesn’t play in the same way as Kane or add anything much that Son / Lucas / Coco / Bale can’t do. Going the other way, those four would improve Leeds. Ergo - no - I wouldn’t buy Bamford - ironically as he’s a bit like Vinny and a big fish in a small pond (Leeds).
 

todd1882

Airfixx's cup final
I'm not reading all that mate
Translation: I (you) don't want to confront things you can't easily rebut. Decent way to avoid challenging your initial position.

Projections are irrelevant to the fact that you're an idiot if you think wanting to sign Batshuayi way back when shows an eye for talent,
Not irrelevant to wanting to sign Batshuayi in preference to Janssen. Which, if you had read and understood the very first post of mine to which you replied, was the point of this all.
 

todd1882

Airfixx's cup final
Didn’t we sign Vinny in July? He was one of those rare(ish) beasts that were over the line early in the TF.
Yeah, because Batshuayi was snapped up with a 40M offer from Chelsea by the end of May after we had negotiated with them all spring. He and his agent supposedly came back for our second offer but it was already too rich for us which was understandable even at that time. But Mitchell was pissed we didn't strike while we were the sole suitors.

There’s a a load of rewriting of history going on in this thread: Levy paid well; he was brought in early;
Yes, and this is some of it. By the time we got Vinny it may have been 'early' for our business but it was late for our alternatives and that is why his club were able to leverage us on the price. We had no other options left.

For the Batshit story, he’s also hardly set the world on fire.
Folks keep bringing this up as if it has anything to do with the decision to be made at that time. This is hindsight. Something we don't have the luxury of when making decisions in real time.

However, with a few seasons of a team built around him and in a system that operates really well for him, then he shines.
ACtually the team is not 'built around him'. Further understanding of Bielsa's ideal #9 would inform you of what he expects from the position. Bamford is missing much of the holdup play but his athleticism makes up for it and he can still occupy opponent CB's attention.
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
Translation: I (you) don't want to confront things you can't easily rebut. Decent way to avoid challenging your initial position.


Not irrelevant to wanting to sign Batshuayi in preference to Janssen. Which, if you had read and understood the very first post of mine to which you replied, was the point of this all.
Whatever, if you kind see the point of using hindsight to establish that someone's eye for a player might not have been great, based on a player they wanted turning out to be absolute guff, then I don't know what to say.
 

Herclueless

A&C's a cunt, Hercules wanks off cats...
Ahhhh, personal attacks huh? Seems you've come to the end of you ability to reason in support of your point. Yet I'm the idiot? Right.
I went back and changed it as I realised straight away there was no need for it, so I'll apologise for that. I do think you're talking bollocks though.
 
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