What is wrong

[Belgrano]

Not as giant as some of the players' egos who can't see ahead of their own interests.

I doubt anyone at Spurs has a bigger ego than Jose. I'm not saying he hasn't earned it, but this is the man who declared himself the 'special one' after all.

There may well be an issue with 'selfish' players in football, kids like Dele who are paid millions from a young age, but every top club has these. It's the job. Feels like an admission of failure to try to call out younger people like this.

 

[TottsAmazeballs]

His ego is giant. Reflecting on whether his management might be lacking, he comes to the conclusion that no, in fact, an entire generation is to blame.

"Nowadays you need time because society and the psychological profile of younger people is not an easy one."

I can't argue with it. Imagine trying to teach discipline to a group of 20-something idiots who earn millions a year and are idolised by their followers... Constantly being told how amazing they are by sycophants and wannabes in their entourage.

Do you use carrot or stick?

What carrot could entice a millionaire? More money?

What stick could motivate them? Benching? Pay cut?

There is no single answer to this problem. It's a novel solution for each individual and it takes time to figure it out. Most of the time, it's a process of elimination. And when you get it wrong (Dele) you have to rebuild to the point where you can try something else.

However, if that person just has a bad/lazy attitude, then your best effort may never be satisfactory. Anyone can cause a 'bounce' or a few days of extra-focus and passion, but for an entire season? That's really hard.

For the record, I have no idea if Jose can do it, but for all our sake's, I hope he can.

 

[Belgrano]

I can't argue with it. Imagine trying to teach discipline to a group of 20 year old idiots who earn millions a year and are idolised by their followers... Constantly being told how amazing they are by sycophants and wannabes in their entourage.

Do you use carrot or stick?

What carrot could entice a millionaire? More money?

What stick could motivate them? Benching? Pay cut?

There is no single answer to this problem. It's a novel solution for each individual and it takes time to figure it out. Most of the time, it's a process of elimination. And when you get it wrong (Dele) you have to rebuild to the point where you can try something else.

However, if that person just has a bad/lazy attitude, then your best effort may never be satisfactory. Anyone can cause a 'bounce' or a few days of extra-focus and passion, but for an entire season? That's really hard.

For the record, I have no idea if Jose can do it, but for all our sake's, I hope he can.

I suspect the only thing that really keeps a lid on squad harmony is winning. But I don't like it when managers criticise their players attitudes in public. It never ends well. I think Mourinho does it to defend his own reputation, not because he genuinely thinks that's how to build togetherness.

 

[halothagod]

I suspect the only thing that really keeps a lid on squad harmony is winning. But I don't like it when managers criticise their players attitudes in public. It never ends well. I think Mourinho does it to defend his own reputation, not because he genuinely thinks that's how to build togetherness.

Or maybe he needs to stay in this job badly and is coming clean to the fans?

 

[Andersen]

Wages used to reflect quality

 

[Andersen]

 

[El Magnifico]

For me the issue is with the club management as they are the employers of both manager/coach and players.

The club has to demand professionalism from the players, and it should supersede any talent and/or status. Whatever the manager asks of players, right or wrong, should be done with the required effort. The players do not get to decide when they put in the effort and when they dont. 'Downing tools' is simply unprofessional and players that do such should be binned and sold. Failure to nip such unprofessionalism in the bud will end up costing the club more.

Once the club sets the expectations and makes an example of anyone who tests their resolve, the rest would likely fall in line. Levy needs to be more ruthless with player managment, and if he cant do it himself, he should hire/authorize someone who will.

 

[Notabadsquad]

I doubt anyone at Spurs has a bigger ego than Jose. I'm not saying he hasn't earned it, but this is the man who declared himself the 'special one' after all.

There may well be an issue with 'selfish' players in football, kids like Dele who are paid millions from a young age, but every top club has these. It's the job. Feels like an admission of failure to try to call out younger people like this.

Fair point.

 

[Notabadsquad]

One issue and I am not sure I have seen it mentioned is maybe that this season and like Liverpool we just fell into over reliance of Kane and Son?

It woukd be understandle to some extent because of how well both were playing at the start of the season, and maybe led to that false sense of security.

Playing as a team and with hunger and discipline is always the key. The greatest players and the best teams never stopped wanting to work hard in order to win.

We can talk recruitment and ENIC/Levy and nurturing talent but without the requisite desire all of the time it will never be enough.

Thst is what's wrong in my opinion.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

For me the issue is with the club management as they are the employers of both manager/coach and players.

The club has to demand professionalism from the players, and it should supersede any talent and/or status. Whatever the manager asks of players, right or wrong, should be done with the required effort. The players do not get to decide when they put in the effort and when they dont. 'Downing tools' is simply unprofessional and players that do such should be binned and sold. Failure to nip such unprofessionalism in the bud will end up costing the club more.

Once the club sets the expectations and makes an example of anyone who tests their resolve, the rest would likely fall in line. Levy needs to be more ruthless with player managment, and if he cant do it himself, he should hire/authorize someone who will.

The Manager maybe?

:mourfacepalm:

You really do talk the most amount of bollocks I've ever seen!

 

[broj]

"Nowadays you need time because society and the psychological profile of younger people is not an easy one."

I can't argue with it. Imagine trying to teach discipline to a group of 20-something idiots who earn millions a year and are idolised by their followers... Constantly being told how amazing they are by sycophants and wannabes in their entourage.

Do you use carrot or stick?

What carrot could entice a millionaire? More money?

What stick could motivate them? Benching? Pay cut?

There is no single answer to this problem. It's a novel solution for each individual and it takes time to figure it out. Most of the time, it's a process of elimination. And when you get it wrong (Dele) you have to rebuild to the point where you can try something else.

However, if that person just has a bad/lazy attitude, then your best effort may never be satisfactory. Anyone can cause a 'bounce' or a few days of extra-focus and passion, but for an entire season? That's really hard.

For the record, I have no idea if Jose can do it, but for all our sake's, I hope he can.

Such a great topic.

I once worked for a manager that told me "perception is reality." To this day I flip back and forth on how that statement actually applies to me. Was she implying that her perception of me, of the workplace, etc. is a reality? More specifically her reality out of all possible realities? Or did she mean that being the manager- the perception she bears - replaces all realities and as the manager that reality is the only one that matters? I have no idea.

Take Dele and all the things you listed: young, wealthy, famous, etc. It seems a perception of him from Jose is lazy, probably stubborn, maybe selfish, i.e. bad teammate? I'm just guessing here. Jose's perception is diametrically opposed to the way Dele probably views himself. Which perception is correct? Which perception matters most? Does it matter at all?

It's a total guess, but I'd say it's why Dele being in/on the team is never settled. Jose probably has a metric for performance he wants Dele to achieve. Maybe Dele thinks he is hitting that metric during the game(s). Then he's back on the bench for 4-5 games in a row. Both people think they are right and nothing is really changing.

 

[Kiwi]

Such a great topic.

I once worked for a manager that told me "perception is reality." To this day I flip back and forth on how that statement actually applies to me. Was she implying that her perception of me, of the workplace, etc. is a reality? More specifically her reality out of all possible realities? Or did she mean that being the manager- the perception she bears - replaces all realities and as the manager that reality is the only one that matters? I have no idea.

Take Dele and all the things you listed: young, wealthy, famous, etc. It seems a perception of him from Jose is lazy, probably stubborn, maybe selfish, i.e. bad teammate? I'm just guessing here. Jose's perception is diametrically opposed to the way Dele probably views himself. Which perception is correct? Which perception matters most? Does it matter at all?

It's a total guess, but I'd say it's why Dele being in/on the team is never settled. Jose probably has a metric for performance he wants Dele to achieve. Maybe Dele thinks he is hitting that metric during the game(s). Then he's back on the bench for 4-5 games in a row. Both people think they are right and nothing is really changing.

great post... and mourinho has final say on team so his perception counts

 

[TottsAmazeballs]

Such a great topic.

I once worked for a manager that told me "perception is reality." To this day I flip back and forth on how that statement actually applies to me. Was she implying that her perception of me, of the workplace, etc. is a reality? More specifically her reality out of all possible realities? Or did she mean that being the manager- the perception she bears - replaces all realities and as the manager that reality is the only one that matters? I have no idea.

Take Dele and all the things you listed: young, wealthy, famous, etc. It seems a perception of him from Jose is lazy, probably stubborn, maybe selfish, i.e. bad teammate? I'm just guessing here. Jose's perception is diametrically opposed to the way Dele probably views himself. Which perception is correct? Which perception matters most? Does it matter at all?

It's a total guess, but I'd say it's why Dele being in/on the team is never settled. Jose probably has a metric for performance he wants Dele to achieve. Maybe Dele thinks he is hitting that metric during the game(s). Then he's back on the bench for 4-5 games in a row. Both people think they are right and nothing is really changing.

Depends if she was bollocking you at the time*.

I'd say that in isolation, that phrase means what we all know (but few understand) - that the singular vantage point offered to us is our slice of reality. It's possible for the same thing to look like two different things when seen from different perspectives. A bit like that art installation that looks like a front room or Marilyn Monroe depending where you stand. But you don't really use that phrase in that context unless you're stoned. It's more likely that someone would use it to convince others that an ad campaign is the way to go.

In Dele's case (and possibly yours**), I'd say he's tip-toeing to get his chin on the bar and the boss wants a head and shoulder above it. Dele might believe he's making his best effort, but that's almost never the case. When someone who decides your fate sees you as ineffective or having a bad attitude, then they will shape your reality accordingly. Sometimes all that's needed is a change of t-shirt or hairstyle, other times it's getting in an hour early and leaving late. Somehow, I think Jose probably hasn't given clear instruction of what he wants, rather he expects Dele to figure out for himself.

* I don't know why, but it reminds me of the Japanese phrase: "Don't do your shoelaces in your neighbours cabbage patch."

** I speak from similar experience

 

[broj]

* I don't know why, but it reminds me of the Japanese phrase: "Don't do your shoelaces in your neighbours cabbage patch."

Ha! Have not heard that one before.

I'd say that in isolation, that phrase means what we all know (but few understand) - that the singular vantage point offered to us is our slice of reality. It's possible for the same thing to look like two different things when seen from different perspectives. A bit like that art installation that looks like a front room or Marilyn Monroe depending where you stand. But you don't really use that phrase in that context unless you're stoned. It's more likely that someone would use it to convince others that an ad campaign is the way to go.

In Dele's case (and possibly yours**), I'd say he's tip-toeing to get his chin on the bar and the boss wants a head and shoulder above it. Dele might believe he's making his best effort, but that's almost never the case. When someone who decides your fate sees you as ineffective or having a bad attitude, then they will shape your reality accordingly. Sometimes all that's needed is a change of t-shirt or hairstyle, other times it's getting in an hour early and leaving late. Somehow, I think Jose probably hasn't given clear instruction of what he wants, rather he expects Dele to figure out for himself.

I think my post is similar to the title of this thread. It's really a rhetorical question for us to debate even though there probably isn't an answer. Just like your art installation example. If I stand at point X the Gareth Bale loan is everything that is right/wrong with this season. Haha right?

Somehow, I think Jose probably hasn't given clear instruction of what he wants, rather he expects Dele to figure out for himself.

I also believe the truth is somewhere down this line of thinking. And not just for Dele. Jose himself said in ep.1 of the All or Nothing doc - I am only a problem for people who do not share my way of thinking. (paraphrasing)

 

[El Magnifico]

The Manager maybe?

:mourfacepalm:

You really do talk the most amount of bollocks I've ever seen!

Players being unprofessional has very little to do with the manager.

We see it in different clubs, different managers and different players. Players do it cos they can often get away with it. It is the club environment that permits it.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Players being unprofessional has very little to do with the manager.

We see it in different clubs, different managers and different players. Players do it cos they can often get away with it. It is the club environment that permits it.