What Should Our Realistic Expectations For This Season Be ?

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There is a complete refusal by some to place any semblance of pressure or expectation on the clubs manager. It is utterly bizarre.

And this is the nub of my problem with your outlook, do you think that there's no pressure on anyone to succeed already?

You can't believe that by getting angry at failure or scapegoating someone that this will solve the problem or mean that spurs will suddenly change and win silverware?

I always go back to a story from a Fulham fan who tells me the story of Mickey Adams taking a poor free kick, a fan shouts sarcastically 'nice one Micky', Adams hears this and shouts back to the fan, 'you think I fucking meant to do that?'.

I think players and managers care and understand the expectations upon them already. Adding to that pressure, I'm not seeing the benefit.
 

Samisspurs

My Pronouns: LOL/WTF
If we keep Eriksen and buy defensively in January then I'd be disappointed if we didn't win a trophy.

Without those criteria, I don't see how the team is particularly stronger than any other recent year.
 
Really that’s news to me? Funny because I seem to recall our supporter base mocking Wengers top 4 is a trophy obsession but seemingly the situation is different when it is us somehow.

The CL is the biggest con of the modern era - it’s deluded a whole generation of supporters into believing it’s the gate way to the elite and that domestic cup tournaments no longer matter.

That’s because the evidence says it’s true - last time we won a trophy it didn’t prevent our best two strikers leaving, and the manager getting the chop just 8 months later, whereas when we first qualified for the CL just 2 years later, we kept everyone important and added a player like Rafael Van Der Vaart who previously wouldn’t have glanced in our direction.

Players like N’Dombele and Lo Celso wouldn’t consider us a desirable destination had we finished outside the top 4 and picked up a domestic trophy.

Fact is the league is the bread and butter. We should be aiming to compete for that, if not then we must make sure we get inside the top 4.

2nd priority is the CL - The increased revenue and profile it brings us means we can then go for a higher standard of player, pay bigger wages and with no little irony, set about building the kind of deep quality squad that can win domestic cups.

I didn’t truly realise what a big deal the CL was until that report of the usual media room at Hotspur way (which is only 7 years old btw) not being able to accommodate everyone in the press conference building up to the final. Imagine.

For club owners and players domestic cups are a nice filip but short lived- So many examples of clubs who’ve won domestic trophies and it made no difference to their status - Portsmouth, Wigan, Swansea, Man City - or managers of big clubs who won a domestic trophy and the board/fans still wanted them gone because they were uncompetitive in the league or failed to reach the CL; see Dalglish, LVG, Wenger & Conte.
 
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Without wishing to have my head blown off should we not also consider what the players are willing to accept as 'realistic expectations' ?. We have talked on here about regular top four and a good CL run as being acceptable to the supporters but do you think the likes of Harry Kane, Son, Alli etc also feel the same ?

The real estate value of these players has risen dramatically with last season's endeavours as has their earning potential. Kane is now 26 and Son 27 and possibly at their peak powers for demanding lucrative wages. Surely the temptations of a title and trophy laden career on European shores will eventually bring about their departure unless this club shows a genuine financial commitment to try and achieve that success here at Spurs ?

Anybody who 'realistically' puts themselves in Kane's boots will realise he has the future financial stability of his family to consider, together with the natural hunger for silverware. Unless we demonstrate to our top players a similar genuine desire to reach the summit of the Premier league and Europe then surely we have no right to ask for or expect their loyalty.
The way I look at it is do we really have a squad that can genuinely challenge for the PL and CL.
or to put it another way how many of our players would be guaranteed starters for other top teams ?
Kane
Ndombele.... maybe too early to tell
Jan and Toby, possibly but they're knocking on a bit.
Winks..... not yet.
Sonny...... inconsistent
Moura.,...see above
Eriksen...... nobody wants him, does that mean anything ?
I'm not saying we have a bad squad just asking how good is it really.
 
Good lad, I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Seriously though, I haven't seen you on here for a while*. I know you were banned for a while but I hope everything's ok with you.

*Our opinions are polar extremes but our interactions have always been respectful.
“I have your seen you on here for a while” there’s a good reason for that! Im sure you’ll here plenty of him from now on in?
 
That’s because the evidence says it’s true - last time we won a trophy it didn’t prevent our best two strikers leaving, and the manager getting the chop just 8 months later, whereas when we first qualified for the CL just 2 years later, we kept everyone important and added a player like Rafael Van Der Vaart who previously wouldn’t have glanced in our direction.

The problem with that is that evidence doesn’t suggest it’s true. If CL football allows you to retain your best players then why are Eriksen and Alderwield winding their contacts down? Why did Kyle Walker want to leave us when we had this? Neither CL or a trophy is enough for us to fend of the likes of Real or Barca - you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Similar clubs like ourselves like A. Madrid, Dortmund and even Liverpool have been asset stripped by the elite even with CL and silverware behind them.

As for VDV well how do you account for this



So I don’t know where you get this notion that we couldn’t have signed him without CL football when he wasn't in the Real team and only cost £5 million. And how you account for us signing the likes of Lamela, Eriksen and Lloris to name a few who where high profile signings who left CL clubs for a non CL club?


Players like N’Dombele and Lo Celso wouldn’t consider us a desirable destination had we finished outside the top 4 and picked up a domestic trophy.

Why did Lo Celso leave PSG for Betis then? Are you saying without CL football we couldn’t attract Real Betis best players? If what you say is true how did Woolwich manage to sign Pepe (one of the best players in France) for £72 million without CL football and a trophy to their name?

2nd priority is the CL - The increased revenue and profile it brings us means we can then go for a higher standard of player, pay bigger wages and with no little irony, set about building the kind of deep quality squad that can win domestic cups.

I didn’t truly realise what a big deal the CL was until that report of the usual media room at Hotspur way (which is only 7 years old btw) not being able to accommodate everyone in the press conference building up to the final. Imagine.

11 years without a trophy, longest drought since the ‘30s and yet second priority remains CL?! None of the supposed benefits hold up - you’re just parroting sound bites from television networks hawking their tv packages. We haven’t signed anyone that we couldn’t have previously and it doesn’t shield us from the elite clubs. If it did Walker wouldn’t have left and Eirksen and Alderwield wouldn’t be winding their contract down.


For club owners and players domestic cups are a nice filip but short lived- So many examples of clubs who’ve won domestic trophies and it made no difference to their status - Portsmouth, Wigan, Swansea, Man City - or managers of big clubs who won a domestic trophy and the board/fans still wanted them gone because they were uncompetitive in the league or failed to reach the CL; see Dalglish, LVG, Wenger & Conte.

What did winning the title do for Leicester? They are a mid table which is what they were under Martin O Neil. It’s an absurd argument - United could finish 15th and yet they would still be one of the richest clubs in the world. Swansea could win the European cup but it wouldn’t alter their capacity in any way. If we had won the league instead of Leicester we would have still been the sixth largest club in the league and we still would be able to compete financially with the elite clubs. Would you be arguing that winning title didn’t do anything for us?
 
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The problem with that is that evidence doesn’t suggest it’s true. If CL football allows you to retain your best players then why are Eriksen and Alderwield winding their contacts down? Why did Kyle Walker want to leave us when we had this? Neither CL or a trophy is enough for us to fend of the likes of Real or Barca - you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Similar clubs like ourselves like A. Madrid, Dortmund and even Liverpool have been asset stripped by the elite even with CL and silverware behind them.

As for VDV well how do you account for this



So I don’t know where you get this notion that we couldn’t have signed him without CL football when he wasn't in the Real team and only cost £5 million. And how you account for us signing the likes of Lamela, Eriksen and Lloris to name a few who where high profile signings who left CL clubs for a non CL club?




Why did Lo Celso leave PSG for Betis then? Are you saying without CL football we couldn’t attract Real Betis best players? If what you say is true how did Woolwich manage to sign Pepe (one of the best players in France) for £72 million without CL football and a trophy to their name?



11 years without a trophy, longest drought since the ‘30s and yet second priority remains CL?! None of the supposed benefits hold up - you’re just parroting sound bites from television networks hawking their tv packages. We haven’t signed anyone that we couldn’t have previously and it doesn’t shield us from the elite clubs. If it did Walker wouldn’t have left and Eirksen and Alderwield wouldn’t be winding their contract down.




What did winning the title do for Leicester? They are a mid table which is what they were under Martin O Neil. It’s an absurd argument - United could finish 15th and yet they would still be one of the richest clubs in the world. Swansea could win the European cup but it wouldn’t alter their capacity in any way. If we had won the league instead of Leicester we would have still been the sixth largest club in the league and we still would be able to compete financially with the elite clubs. Would you be arguing that winning title didn’t do anything for us?
Erikesen has been here for 6 full seasons, 3 of those CL years

Alderweireld has been here 4 full seasons, 3 of those CL years.

Both of them have been here long enough that they can look elsewhere as they enter a different phase in their career but you can’t hold the club being uncompetitive as the reason why. It’s hardly like they are doing a Berbatov or Modric, they are actually still here.

Yes we haven’t won a trophy (you lot are really letting this drought affect your perspective), but as far as I’m concerned, Tottenham 2019 summer transfer window outlook >>>> Tottenham 2008 transfer window outlook.

I’m talking about the overall view of the club, and then you want to bring individual cases as proof that the overall plan is failing.

Wage packets are a big factor behind players wanting to move obviously Spurs have been lagging behind... domestic cups aren’t the way to close that gap. However we’re starting to pay competitive wages. Stadium and CL/top 4 league income helps massively.

Football has its food chain, of which Real Madrid and Barcelona are the apex predators, I’m not denying that , however have we lost anybody since Gareth Bale that the club truly didn’t want to?

IMO the club was quite happy to let Kyle Walker leave; Trippier started the majority of games in the 2nd half of the 16/17 season, and that deal got sorted quite early in the summer window. Selling Walker wasn’t a mistake. Signing Aurier to replace him has been.

VdV cost £8mil and it was only ourselves and Bayern Munich in for him... he wasn’t exactly begging to play for just anybody. He left 2 years later because Sylvie wanted to go back to Hamburg and their marriage was having difficulties. On the professional side I believe he would have stayed but he was already 29/30 at that point.

You also completely discount a players Stage of their career, any baller worth their salt wants to spend their prime years at a CL club - Lo Celso was still young enough to take a step down to Betis, re-establish himself and come back to a club operating at a similar level. Also he was effectively forced out of Paris due to FFP.

Lamela and Eriksen were 21 when they came to Spurs we had just finished a point outside the CL and could offer them London and a league with a higher profile. Plus there was the small factor of having Bale money to spend.

People forget that once the novelty of playing in the prem and London wore off, Lloris wanted to leave in 2014 because we weren’t competitive. Poch convinced him to stay and Lloris is more than just a player for Poch.

Pepe signed for Woolwich because Woolwich pay higher wages and have a bigger profile than Lille. That his agent auctioned him around was telling. Contrast that with N’Dombele and Lo Celso who said they wanted Spurs and only Spurs.

Winning the league is the priority, continuing to have a seat at the elite table for us is crucial because we know the ownership don’t pay over the top wages.

No CL run = no N’Dombele, Lo Celso might be a different story. Sessegnon I think we sign but he was so sure that this was the place to be. All three only wanted Spurs - that’s significant. Usually we’re the back up option after plan A falls through.

Leicester are back where they were in the filbert street era, but ask their fans if the last 5 years (and the quality of player they’ve been able to acquire) compares at all with the MON era. When MON left Leicester it was for Celtic, whereas Rodgers left Celtic for Leicester. The football landscape and it’s demands have changed in the past 20 years. Leicester have now set themselves up as a place where talented young players can grow, not a club full of some hard nosed journeymen who overachieved.

Domestic cups are nice but in the long run they mean jack shit to owners, and I’d argue managers (who generally are always seeking funds to approve their squad) don’t see them as a big deal either... until they win it of course. Bet you Poch doesn’t cry like he did for the CL semifinal if he wins an FA/League Cup.
 
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