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Oh yes!
Oh yes!
I am a late late convert tbh.... Not typically my cuppa, but I had no idea some of his stuff was so fucking cool!
Music for grown ups.
What's one of them?
Profits AFTER tax and interest deductions from Spurs Annual Reports
2014: £65,261,000
2015: £9,396,000
2016: £33,037,000
2017: £36,185,000
2018: £112,953,000
2019: £68,552,000
2020: -£63,916,000
7 year total:
£261,468,000
2020 Cash: £226m
£261 million quid in profits since 2014 and sitting on £226m cash, now you can argue they're piling that back in by paying off stadium debts or buying climbing walls and golf clubs or whatever, fine, but we could very easily have invested more in our squad, even if that meant servicing infrastructure debts slightly more slowly (although it's far from clear that that would be required) and come out the other side richer because we were more successful on the pitch as a result.
The argument is so polarised on here with seemingly only 2 camps 'allowed' on any topic but I think it's much more nuanced. In my view they've consistently not quite done enough and that means I, like many others, have now had enough, your threshold is higher, also fine, but you may well get to the point you're fed up and want a change too, we're all only entrenched in our views until we're not.
I'm not really sure.
Ah see, now you've just moved the goal posts.
We were talking about Spurs wealth and value but you've changed it to Lewis' wealth and value.
Of course he could invest money, he won't but he could.
And now we're back to my original post re unicorns and father Christmas.
Great post completely agree on the polarisation
Is Levy worse than Mike Ashley? No
Has he done a great for the FC? No
It’s a middle ground - not done enough and not learned from that either. Same mistakes, same decisions with lots of decent work in the background
A total profit of £261m in 7 years.
Cash of £226m, which came from the £261m profit.
So not quite the "and" bit of your post.
I think???? we have to keep an amount of £££ in our accounts as part of the stadium debt conditions.
How much that is I don't know.
That amount certainly wouldn't have bought us many top players over that time frame.
It's not what we spend that is the issue.
It's wasting millions after millions on players that aren't good enough.
The argument is definitely more nuanced and I have consistently been critical of our recruitment and scouting system amongst other things.
I have also consistently called out the BS posted on here, apparently that makes me a cuck and a Levy lover.
Oh hum.
Any new owners will not buy the club and invest in the team without wanting their money back. Which will come from THFC.
How anyone can't see this is beyond me.
Barring of course being bought by an oil state.
That is my main concern.
Not Enic leaving but who will take us over and how much will they consistently, year on year, take out of the club a la the Glasers.
It's all a moot point (re new owners) as Enic aren't going anywhere soon.
9 pages and no mention of referees by
Gobbygonk
Gobbygonk
First off... Props to you for even daring to state your case with actual figures.... This is a rare thing that shouldn't go un-noticed (whether I or others share your opinion or not).
Secondly....The last paragraph is more than reasonable approach to what you rightfully term a "polarised" debate. It's gratifying to see things approached above a level of above childish talk of cults, levy-lovers and sexual slurs. Again; more power to you.
So; in terms of the 'what happens' to the dosh question?
What we do know from the accounts is that this money is not being funneled out of the club by means of share dividends or otherwise illegitimate means.... It's money that is staying withing the club (so the dumb, oft-cited fairytales of embezzlement and theft are just that; DUMB.).
From there, regarding the figures you provide; my assumption (from my partial understanding of accounting based on my former profession) is that the stated 'profit' figures would be carried forward into the financial year to form part of the cash balance for what is available to potentially be spent/allocated the following year.
1. Phase 1 (Let's say up until early 2019)..... We presumably continued to allocate x-amount toward continued infrastructure project (including the portion of the stadium costs that we had to fund ourselves.... A reported 500m-ish all told).... Needless to say this is the primary facotr behind our player expenditure being self-capped during the same period.
2. Phase 2 (i..e After the new stadium had opened)..... Around this same kind of time we have seen both an up-swing in trf and wage spending (***), but more poignantly as you note we are not committed to what I understand to be circa £40m+ p/a bond repayments. People might choose to weaponise the Golf Course purchase or similar (but that is veritable chicken feed when compared to the cost of on-the-pitch endevours and the bonds we have committed to.)
(***NOTE: This would rightfully be acknowledged as pre-profit expenditure; but notable as it exhibits the whole point of the new stadium beginning to put into practice; albeit the extent of it being impeded by the effects of Covid.)
3. I haven't read the accounts in the last year or so and at best have a broad view of the Covid impact; but what jumps out on me is that 'current' (well recent i.e. 2020) cash figure:
a) Is that including the short-term £170m contingency loan we took from the government? (...A loan that we've since re-financed with further long term bonds to soften the blow of repayment straight back to the Gov. Thus our monthly loan outgoings have risen)
b) Has that money since in fact partially been swallowed in trying to juggle the financial effects of covid? (Wasn't the averaged cost per EPL club perported to be about 90m?)
c) I'd be keen to know how much of it is still there in the y/e 2021 accounts.
d) If a large portion of that money indeed remains 'sat' there in-tact then I too am keen to know what the club's plans would be in terms of its allocation after any further covid-contingency (winter lockdowns currently being a legit concern nationwide; so it wouldn't suprise me to see such planning in place).
(I'm sure some will childishly ridicule any such post as "ENIC appolgism", or whatever, but fuck them.... There's a cool-headed and open-minded discussion if you're willing to partake further..... Either way; hats off the the previous post, mate!
)
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First off... Props to you for even daring to state your case with actual figures.... This is a rare thing that shouldn't go un-noticed (whether I or others share your opinion or not).
Secondly....The last paragraph is more than reasonable approach to what you rightfully term a "polarised" debate. It's gratifying to see things approaching above a level of above childish talk of cults, levy-lovers and sexual slurs. Again; more power to you.
So; in terms of the 'what happens' to the dosh question?
What we do know from the accounts is that this money is not being funneled out of the club by means of share dividends or otherwise illegitimate means.... It's money that is staying withing the club (so the dumb, oft-cited fairytales of embezzlement and theft are just that; DUMB.).
From there, regarding the figures you provide; my assumption (from my partial understanding of accounting based on my former profession) is that the stated 'profit' figures would be carried forward into the financial year to form part of the cash balance for what is available to potentially be spent/allocated the following year.
1. Phase 1 (Let's say up until early 2019)..... We presumably continued to allocate x-amount toward continued infrastructure project (including the portion of the stadium costs that we had to fund ourselves.... A reported 500m-ish all told).... Needless to say this is the primary facotr behind our player expenditure being self-capped during the same period.
2. Phase 2 (i..e After the new stadium had opened)..... Around this same kind of time we have seen both an up-swing in trf and wage spending (***), but more poignantly as you note we are not committed to what I understand to be circa £40m+ p/a bond repayments. People might choose to weaponise the Golf Course purchase or similar (but that is veritable chicken feed when compared to the cost of on-the-pitch endevours and the bonds we have committed to.)
(***NOTE: This would rightfully be acknowledged as pre-profit expenditure; but notable as it exhibits the whole point of the new stadium beginning to put into practice; albeit the extent of it being impeded by the effects of Covid.)
3. I haven't read the accounts in the last year or so and at best have a broad view of the Covid impact; but what jumps out on me is that 'current' (well recent i.e. 2020) cash figure:
a) Is that including the short-term £170m contingency loan we took from the government? (...A loan that we've since re-financed with further long term bonds to soften the blow of repayment straight back to the Gov. Thus our monthly loan outgoings have risen)
b) Has that money since in fact partially been swallowed in trying to juggle the financial effects of covid? (Wasn't the averaged cost per EPL club perported to be about 90m?)
c) I'd be keen to know how much of it is still there in the y/e 2021 accounts.
d) If a large portion of that money indeed remains 'sat' there in-tact then I too am keen to know what the club's plans would be in terms of its allocation after any further covid-contingency (winter lockdowns currently being a legit concern nationwide; so it wouldn't suprise me to see such planning in place).
(I'm sure some will childishly ridicule any such post as "ENIC appolgism", or whatever, but fuck them.... There's a cool-headed and open-minded discussion if you're willing to partake further..... Either way; hats off the the previous post, mate!
Does Levy pay you a fixed fee per word, because if so, you're minting after this post
This is a internet football forum. You don't need to be writing your PHD thesis in here.First off... Props to you for even daring to state your case with actual figures.... This is a rare thing that shouldn't go un-noticed (whether I or others share your opinion or not).
Secondly....The last paragraph is more than reasonable approach to what you rightfully term a "polarised" debate. It's gratifying to see things approaching above a level of above childish talk of cults, levy-lovers and sexual slurs. Again; more power to you.
So; in terms of the 'what happens' to the dosh question?
What we do know from the accounts is that this money is not being funneled out of the club by means of share dividends or otherwise illegitimate means.... It's money that is staying withing the club (so the dumb, oft-cited fairytales of embezzlement and theft are just that; DUMB.).
From there, regarding the figures you provide; my assumption (from my partial understanding of accounting based on my former profession) is that the stated 'profit' figures would be carried forward into the financial year to form part of the cash balance for what is available to potentially be spent/allocated the following year.
1. Phase 1 (Let's say up until early 2019)..... We presumably continued to allocate x-amount toward continued infrastructure project (including the portion of the stadium costs that we had to fund ourselves.... A reported 500m-ish all told).... Needless to say this is the primary facotr behind our player expenditure being self-capped during the same period.
2. Phase 2 (i..e After the new stadium had opened)..... Around this same kind of time we have seen both an up-swing in trf and wage spending (***), but more poignantly as you note we are not committed to what I understand to be circa £40m+ p/a bond repayments. People might choose to weaponise the Golf Course purchase or similar (but that is veritable chicken feed when compared to the cost of on-the-pitch endevours and the bonds we have committed to.)
(***NOTE: This would rightfully be acknowledged as pre-profit expenditure; but notable as it exhibits the whole point of the new stadium beginning to put into practice; albeit the extent of it being impeded by the effects of Covid.)
3. I haven't read the accounts in the last year or so and at best have a broad view of the Covid impact; but what jumps out on me is that 'current' (well recent i.e. 2020) cash figure:
a) Is that including the short-term £170m contingency loan we took from the government? (...A loan that we've since re-financed with further long term bonds to soften the blow of repayment straight back to the Gov. Thus our monthly loan outgoings have risen)
b) Has that money since in fact partially been swallowed in trying to juggle the financial effects of covid? (Wasn't the averaged cost per EPL club perported to be about 90m?)
c) I'd be keen to know how much of it is still there in the y/e 2021 accounts.
d) If a large portion of that money indeed remains 'sat' there in-tact then I too am keen to know what the club's plans would be in terms of its allocation after any further covid-contingency (winter lockdowns currently being a legit concern nationwide; so it wouldn't suprise me to see such planning in place).
(I'm sure some will childishly ridicule any such post as "ENIC appolgism", or whatever, but fuck them.... There's a cool-headed and open-minded discussion if you're willing to partake further..... Either way; hats off the the previous post, mate!
I included the £226m to show how much of that cash has not been reinvested but is being sat on, of course we need some operating cash but that is a lot, think maybe Dan is wanting to show high cash conversion or something to be able to command a higher sale price, didn't mean to imply we were sitting on £0.5b! Imagine?! You'd bring the rope to the lynching party I reckon.
We're actually of very similar mind by the sounds, or at least I remember making those same points myself in the past, it's just I've got the point of thinking "hmm what's the likelihood that the new owners would bring me less joy than these?" And these days I think there's only a slim chance of that.
Anyway, yeah, I can't see anyone meeting Dan's valuation, so unless something external big happens that drives the sale, it's hard to see it ending anytime soon.
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No, but to be fair, if you are going to make claims against ENIC, you should be able to rebut his claims in detail.
I don't mind that, if this forum was limited to short posts only, we'd just be twitter.
220m / 7 years won't have bought a lot that's for sure......
1 x 25m player (+7m wages) each year that could well have proved a dud.
THIS. THIS. THIS. I've been criticising our recruitment and scouting for years now; but apparently that doesn't register unless you hate the way we're generally run too.
Amen.
ENIC aren't perfect.... Would never dream of claiming that they are. I wouldn't even mourn their exit, but when I consider the potential arrival of:
a) A clusterfuck like Ashley or someone even less competent.
b) A glazier-type that are gonna ACTUALLY milk the club financially.
c) Scum like The Chavs/City/PSG.
....I'm left relatively content with not entering the new owners lottery.
(Needless to say the content of this post is nothing I haven't posted dozens of times before........ But hey; apparently I love the taste of Levy's balls and am on the payroll.
)
Does Levy pay you a fixed fee per word, because if so, you're minting after this post
It's all about my share dividends mate....
Wait; the club aren't paying out share dividends....... Does that mean I've bee Levied too?
Exactly. Grown-up debate/conversation isn't for everyone.
Some are left to purely live and die by #sickburns.
Sad really.
Apologies if you’ve covered this before; but why aren’t ENIC like the Glazers?
The glazers put the club in huge debt as part of their acquisition, BUT have invested an insane amount of money in transfer fees and wages. Are they really worse than ENIC?