Why it’s a good thing they won

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Millbanks said:
Agree generally with the story but don't agree that we are (or should be) a cup team and not a league team. I still wouldn't trade FA Cup victories for a consistently high finish in the league. I don't ever want to see the bottom half of the table again. A healthy balance for league and cup would be nice, and feasible I feel.


What has De Boer done that makes him a title contending manager in the Premier League? Particularly more-so than Wenger?

trifficTotnum - you really do come out with some absolute shit sometimes. You can hate ENIC all you like, but you can't deny facts.
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Its more the fact that Woolwich are a few world class players short of really challenging Man City for the title and a new guy with a bit less restrictive cash policies/better transfer policy might give Woolwich enough of an edge to go beyond top 4. Woolwich always look just a bit short, add to the fact that Wenger never changes his tactics for big team like City and Chelsea and gets raped by them. A few small tactical changes and top quality transfer may create a nightmare.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
Or maybe he's right and we have progressed under ENIC. Unless the midtable guff under Sugar is no worse.

No we aren't winning titled or in the CL every year, but to say that we aren't beyond where we were under Sugar is laughable and simply, factually incorrect.
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One carling cup win in 20 years, get real. THFC is bigger than that. It's even more irritating to continually using a low point in our history to compare everything else to that.How are we compared to the 60's, 70's and 80's before your lord sugars and Levy's , we actually won shit and had stuff to be proud of.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
Or maybe he's right and we have progressed under ENIC. Unless the midtable guff under Sugar is no worse.

No we aren't winning titled or in the CL every year, but to say that we aren't beyond where we were under Sugar is laughable and simply, factually incorrect.
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Define progress?. Either you're a top 4 club or not. Either you reaching cup semi finals or not. Even bloody Hull city are able to reach an FA cup final, Birmingham and Wigan. On the other front, we can never establish any form of stability to build on, Because levy keeps sacking managers left right and centre. Not to mention wholesale squad changes.Maybe levy should turn hotspur way into an airport terminal?
 
Smoked Salmon said:
Or maybe he's right and we have progressed under ENIC. Unless the midtable guff under Sugar is no worse.

No we aren't winning titled or in the CL every year, but to say that we aren't beyond where we were under Sugar is laughable and simply, factually incorrect.
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I'm far from Daniels biggest fan but we've also lost 2 cup finals under him and made semi finals on numerous occasions as well.
 
trifficTotnum said:
One carling cup win in 20 years, get real. THFC is bigger than that. It's even more irritating to continually using a low point in our history to compare everything else to that.How are we compared to the 60's, 70's and 80's before your lord sugars and Levy's , we actually won shit and had stuff to be proud of.
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Were bigger than that. I think that's the point you are having difficulty with. You know, Everton, Sunderland, Villa and Wolves have all won the title more times than us. In Everton's case four times as many times as us. Are they as big as us in your eyes? If not, what is the reasoning for you thinking otherwise? Money?

If they are, do all these clubs also have the same divine right to lots of trophies that you think we have? If so it's gonna get pretty congested at the top, isn't it?

Football has changed tremendously in the Premier League era. Whether you like it or not it's extremely hard to break into the top four these days. We have been in touching distance of it for a good few seasons now. The hardest leap is not getting into it, such we have done twice, it's staying in it. Two of the three clubs I mentioned above aren't anywhere close to us, and Everton doesn't enjoy the resources we have. The glories of 30+ years ago aren't coming back. With that in mind I think, on balance, we should be grateful that we are consistently competing for a seat at the top table and not a fading poster of yesteryear like so many other big and great clubs of the past have become.
 
Eskimo said:
I'm far from Daniels biggest fan but we've also lost 2 cup finals under him and made semi finals on numerous occasions as well.
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Indeed. I've only been a fan since I was a teenager, so just under 20 years now. First European game I saw was the Kaiserlauten (sp?) game, where we got arse raped. In contrast under Levy we have had many European nights, some great victories and played Real Madrid in the quarters of the CL FFS. If that's not superior to what existed when ENIC took over than I can only assume people will only be satisfied when we've won as many titles as Man U and as many European Cups as Liverpool. No sense of realism whatsoever.
 
Millbanks said:
Agree generally with the story but don't agree that we are (or should be) a cup team and not a league team. I still wouldn't trade FA Cup victories for a consistently high finish in the league. I don't ever want to see the bottom half of the table again. A healthy balance for league and cup would be nice, and feasible I feel.
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"Good cup team" is a bullshit myth built out of the fact that historically, on balance, we've simply won more cups than league titles when other clubs were getting league titles and no doing so well in the cups. Doesn't mean we somehow have some secret to winning them, and, last time I looked, the players who won all those cups aren't the ones taking the field for us these days.
 
:parker:


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I liked the article.

Re ENIC, overall we've made slight progress under them compared to the previous 13 years before them. But it's only slight. In terms of trophies, we've done worse than the previous period. Between Dec 1987 to Dec 2000 when ENIC took over, we won TWO trophies, under ENIC in 13 seasons it's ONE.

It's fair to say under both Sugar and ENIC the club has had a very poor time trophy-wise.

When Sugar took over in June 91, the London major trophy table looked like this

Woolwich 17 trophies
Spurs 15 trophies
Chelsea 4 trophies

My counting might be wrong, but it's pretty much accurate I think.

True Woolwich had way more titles, but when we were winning Cups they mattered much more than they do now, especially the FA Cup.

So we were close to Woolwich and way ahead of Chelsea, including 2 titles to 1. This was a mere 24 years ago.

Now the table looks like this

Woolwich 28 trophies (+11)
Chelsea 19 trophies (+15)
Spurs 17 trophies (+2)

An absolutely disastrous time under Sugar and ENIC compared to our London rivals. It's been very hurtful for someone like me who remembers the 60s, when we had the edge over Woolwich and were way ahead of Chelsea.

To be fair to ENIC and Sugar a lot of our rivals, like Everton Newcastle Villa and Leeds have fared the same or worse since 91, trophy-wise. But Southerners/Londoners like me have to put up with Chelsea and Woolwich fans, whereas I barely meet a fan of those other teams.

Also to be fair, under ENIC we've put in some good lge positions,well done on that, and the financials overall. But we've never had a 3rd place to match 1990, or indeed 87, which will soon be in the comparison stats, as we reach 14 years under ENIC this December.

While the last time we seriously challenged for the Lge was when, in the 80s maybe, or even further back in the 60s.
 
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Greaves357_bestever said:
Re ENIC, overall we've made slight progress under them compared to the previous 13 years before them. But it's only slight.
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League place finishes 1987-2000
3rd ,13th, 6th, 3rd, 11th, 15th, 8th, 15th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 10th
Two serious relegation battles
Nearly went bankrupt
2 trophies
Stadium got smaller
Played in Europe twice (would have been three times without the ban)


League place finishes 2001-2013
12th, 9th, 12th,14th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th
CL run
Became 14th richest club in Europe and riches to never have played CL football
1 trophy
Building new stadium
Played in Europe 6 times
 
I say stuff them: Our next manager will know what to win, like the previous one, and the one before that and the one before that, before that, before that, before that.....:confused:
 
I think ENIC are good for a bunch of poeple who don't want to spend much net money. Levy sells at a high market price and buys cheap but the problem with that is that we are constantly rebuilding our sqaud and so we never seem to settle enough to become good, every year feels like a new beginning. Bale was the golden goose whose sale could have really transformed us but a few of the buys didn't work out.

Still I suppose we have a stadium coming and the most indepth team I have seen at Spurs, but to really close the gap we need probably another 100 million spent well this time on maybe 2-3 world class players and to get a manager capable of getting the best out of a already talented squad.
 
Fidel Castro said:
Many have already shown you why we have gone backwards under Levy/Sugar .
It is becoming a little silly defending them on football competence. .
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No...many have listed that we have one less trophy.

Our table finishes are much better over the last 6-7 years. We beat the top teams much more often, we are regualars in Europe, and the standard and quality of PL football has probably more than doubled overall since the mid 90's.

We have not flirted with relegation, or nearly gone bust....

So if winning 2 trophies in 13yrs as opposed to one trumps everything else, then I think you are blinded as to what improving a football club entails.

You totally ignore all the actual facts as to why the stadium takes time and just whine like a child that its not ready now. You think it was even possible before ENIC?

Backwards under Levy...?

I take it you will now reveal your prefered alternative then....lol
 
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