Will the MLS or Chinese Super League ever become more than glorified pub leagues?

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Fair dues Shrek
Never been a big fan of Rooney, but he has had a penchant to pop up now and then with the highlight moments. Admittedly, this one had large amounts to do with the shit opposition. No way he hawks down a player in England like that in 2018, the Orlando player should have chipped it to the empty goal on the first touch for either of his unmarked teammates to finish off, the long ball Rooney played was pretty much of the hit and hope variety, and the defending/keeping was shocking - total embarrassment the keeper didn't attack and claim that ball, it was in the air for ages.
 
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Potentially the new logo for a new MLS team.

I..... like it.

:levyeyes:
Never has a logo oozed more estrogen
 
Is there a similar grudge with New York City FC being formed on Red Bull New York's turf? To be fair, though, I would rather take a cucumber in a condom right up inside my harris than support a team called Red Bull New York, even if they were there first (albeit under a less sick-inducing team name). Then again, NYCFC are owned by City Football Group, aren't they? Ah. It's fortunate that me living in New York and having to decide who to support isn't a problem that is likely to come up any time soon.
The thing with NYRB is that they are actually a New Jersey team masquerading as a New York team. :llorishowudoin:
 
I heard this right when we got knocked out of World Cup a qualification, but some pundit said the MLS is making Central/South American players better and not Americans. I found that spot on. If you look at the best players in the league, mostly all of them come from other countries.
Build that wall!! #MAGA
 
MLS is growing at a very healthy clip for a young league. Competition from other domestic sports leagues, a lack of meaningful continental competition (CONCACAF Champions League will never compare to the UEFA equivalent or even the South American cups), and the established hierarchy of prestige for leagues will keep it from being a global phenomenon (in my lifetime there's no way that MLS, the Chinese league, Mexican league, J league, etc will challenge the big Euro leagues for the top players or global popularity).

Identifying and developing talent is light years ahead of what it was in the late 90s, but that's still the greatest gap between the US and euro/south american leagues in terms of quality of play.

Single entity ownership in MLS, restrictions on the freedom of movement of players into/among/out of teams in the league + salary considerations are a big hurdle but talent development needs to continue rising. Upping the number of intelligent, qualified coaches should be objective number 1. Eliminating the financial burden for players to play competitively should be done. Changing the mentality of youth development should be next...one of the greatest problems is that even the most talented youngsters aren't put into environments that challenge them/teach them to grow into a professional player. As someone that has been fortunate enough to observe the operations of some great euro academies up close, the trial by fire that exists in those structures simply doesn't have an equivalent in the academy setups in America yet. By and large, football is still very much considered a game here and not a lifestyle.
I think one of the challenges is the disparities within MLS between the clubs. On the one hand, you have a cluster of 6-7 teams with large budgets, and a serious intent to win. And you have 13 or so other teams which either haven't got the resources, or the intent at board level, or both.

Until you have more intent from the smaller teams, I don't think MLS can make the next jump and get ride of some of the current impediments (the DP rule and very tight salary cap).

But MLS is emphatically growing, and it's going to be really interesting to see where it is at in 10 years. I think it will probably not be on Europe's level, but it will be a league with a very solid level of support and international respect.

China, I don't know. It seems like there is very little support for the Chinese League, within China. If that doesn't change, I can't see the CSL going anywhere.
 
Seems like typical American arrogance to do it their own way ! Ridiculous to have a closed league.
The desire by owners for a closed European super league pre-dates the formation of the Premier League, the idea has just never been popular enough among fans and far too complicated to set up. This is just the same bullshit by people involved in the sport to make money that has been peddled for decades.
 
The problems that will always impact the MSL versus most other US sports is that it can't be controlled through salary caps, regulation, or by the US media ....

Football is a world sport, no one country (or even national organisation) can set all the rules ... feck in 50 years they still can't all agree on the standard pitch size ...

The reason there are no salary caps, that there are promotion and relegation, that there are independent national leagues is that players are not 'owned' by clubs the same way they are in the NFL or NBA, they are fully covered by standard employment legislation and freedom of movement ...

If the EPL places a hard salary cap on it's clubs all the best players would immediately tear up their contracts and feck off to a country that pays more, nothing the owners could do ... this scares the shite out of the US owners ... not being able to control your players as personal property (I will avoid the 's' word) means you're taking a huge risk ... buy an NFL or NBA franchise and you are guaranteed to make money ... that just doesn't apply to MLS ...

The USA is the only country in the crazy world of NFL / NBA ... but in Football (soccer) it's just a small player ... if it wants to compete, and it does, it has no choice but to follow what the rest of the football world does ... you can't have a 'single tier' league and hope to be competitive ... there's a reason no other country does this ... football needs grass roots, it needs a National Team, those successes are vital, feck England still harp on about 1966 because that victory took English football to a whole new level ... the USA needs more 'grass roots' football, it needs more International success, they have the players they just need a break ...

That all sounds a bit negative but it really isn't, previous 'failed' attempts with single tier soccer attempting to mimic other US sports have always gone a bit wrong, not failed but not quite taken off ... now that there are clear signs of 'league' structures growing beneath the MLS things will improve ... that is the future and it will happen ...
Just nitpicking but I think a decent percentage of the NBA's players come from outside the US/Canada these days. Obviously we've still got the dominant league, but it's a bit more like hockey where there are a lot of stars from other countries. Same goes for MLB. So I don't think the franchise structure/lack of relegation is the issue, it's a lack of interest. If MLS could even attract the same attention as the NHL, the smallest of the big four leagues, it would be massive relative to all the foreign soccer leagues except the top 4 or 5 european leagues.

Edit: The American and Canadian NTs would probably still suck though
 
In what way, it's still made up of geriatric players on a last hoorah, and second rate players. How come all of the big American investors come straight to Europe to Hoover up clubs, and don't invest in local teams? If they did then they could provide salaries that encourage Americans to look at football as a viable sporting alternative to the domestic games.
In some ways I hope the game never takes off there, if it does the corporation's will shit on the game with advertising - turning it into 4 quarters so the US can have their ad breaks, which tv companies believe you can't survive without.
Says a supporter of a #neverred club with a giant fuck off red AIA on the shirt. Let's pause a moment for a hypocrisy check before pre-blaming the US for the commercialisation of football, yeah?

:pocheyes:

Furthermore, the "big" american investors aren't involved with any sports outside the NFL, NBA, and MLB. The Americans getting involved in European football now are, for the most part, second-rate guys who are late to the party and missed the value explosion. They're basically house flippers who get into lower level clubs hoping a few additions, a bit of facilities work here and there, will put the club in the upper echelons and allow them to cash out.

The reason they're interested in the euro clubs is plain to see. They're looking to flip an asset in the short term for a windfall. MLS clubs are massive loss leaders, and anyone getting involved in the league is playing the long game - that for $200M today you can buy something that will have an NFL-esque value ($2-3 Billion in today's dollars) 20 years from now.

The league is nothing like the NASL. The NASL went bankrupt for doing precisely what you're saying the MLS should do - overspend on players hoping they will attract the attention. We've tried putting the cart in front of the horse before...didn't really work out too well.

I love hkw MLS' problems always come back to the players being retirees and the lack of promotion/relegation. The reason the MLS underperforms the US' population is simply that few people in the US give a fuck. Most US sports fans still see the sport as something for pre-schoolers. No amount of pro/rel or appropriately aged players will fix that bias...its going to take another generation or 2 for the sport to properly bed in.

For an easy comparison, look how long it's taken for basketball to grow roots in Europe. Those leagues are mostly filled with complete shite and a mix of NBA has-been to never-weres. But it's getting better, and the pipeline of talent is less an occasional drop and now almost a steady leak of 1-2 players a year coming. Long way to go yet, though.

TL;DR - it's hard to transplant a sport to a foreign nation that already has a strong and established sporting culture.
 
Says a supporter of a #neverred club with a giant fuck off red AIA on the shirt. Let's pause a moment for a hypocrisy check before pre-blaming the US for the commercialisation of football, yeah?

:pocheyes:

Furthermore, the "big" american investors aren't involved with any sports outside the NFL, NBA, and MLB. The Americans getting involved in European football now are, for the most part, second-rate guys who are late to the party and missed the value explosion. They're basically house flippers who get into lower level clubs hoping a few additions, a bit of facilities work here and there, will put the club in the upper echelons and allow them to cash out.

The reason they're interested in the euro clubs is plain to see. They're looking to flip an asset in the short term for a windfall. MLS clubs are massive loss leaders, and anyone getting involved in the league is playing the long game - that for $200M today you can buy something that will have an NFL-esque value ($2-3 Billion in today's dollars) 20 years from now.

The league is nothing like the NASL. The NASL went bankrupt for doing precisely what you're saying the MLS should do - overspend on players hoping they will attract the attention. We've tried putting the cart in front of the horse before...didn't really work out too well.

I love hkw MLS' problems always come back to the players being retirees and the lack of promotion/relegation. The reason the MLS underperforms the US' population is simply that few people in the US give a fuck. Most US sports fans still see the sport as something for pre-schoolers. No amount of pro/rel or appropriately aged players will fix that bias...its going to take another generation or 2 for the sport to properly bed in.

For an easy comparison, look how long it's taken for basketball to grow roots in Europe. Those leagues are mostly filled with complete shite and a mix of NBA has-been to never-weres. But it's getting better, and the pipeline of talent is less an occasional drop and now almost a steady leak of 1-2 players a year coming. Long way to go yet, though.

TL;DR - it's hard to transplant a sport to a foreign nation that already has a strong and established sporting culture.
America has a strong established sporting culture? Really, when did that happen?
I thought you just played rounders, netball and robocop rugby for dummies.

Not sure why you equate to Spurs putting a company logo on the shirts, with your sports which actually come to a halt in game playing time, so the TV companies can shovel more car insurance and haemmorhoid cream adverts into you. But if you think that defeats my point then all well and good. Because that is my concern over corporate America becoming involved in football.
You then went on to say a lot of things on my behalf, that I didn't actually say, but if its only small time investors from the US who are investing in the single biggest global sport, then maybe your big time investors aren't as smart as they think they are. But Americans are famous for thinking that the world begins and ends in the US, so it's maybe not surprising that you would have this viewpoint.

There are basketball leagues in Europe? Who actually gives a shit? I'd rather watch netball than a load of giants playing a sport that is populated by huge ugly blokes. Most netball teams are full of fit women, who are much better to watch getting hot and sweaty.

I'm well aware of the establishment of the sports that are played in the US, and the national team will always suffer from the lack of meaningful numbers of participants, until the european and Central American influence on the sport and regional leagues starts to pay dividends. It certainly wont improve whilst whatever money that's available for the sport is spent outside of your country.
 
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