"Yid" chanting...

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Yid chants, offensive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 7.8%
  • No

    Votes: 317 92.2%

  • Total voters
    344
"In October 2013 the Club commissioned the independent research consultancy Populus to conduct a fan consultation on its behalf regarding Tottenham Hotspur fans’ use of the Y-word. The Club delayed the reporting of the outcome of this research whilst three legal cases in respect of our fans arrested for using the Y-word were underway. The Crown Prosecution Service has decided not to proceed with those prosecutions and we are now able to outline the findings of the consultation.
An online consultation was sent to all One Hotspur Season Ticket Holders and Members. Respondents were presented with a variety of differing, publicly articulated arguments and views on the use of the Y-word and then given the opportunity to write a free text response detailing their own opinions on the subject.

The response to the survey was overwhelming with almost 11,500 completed consultations received. We should like to take this opportunity to thank fans that participated for providing such detailed, articulate and heartfelt responses on the subject.

The Club has read each and every comment provided in order to gain a thorough understanding of all the sentiments expressed and then asked Populus to undertake a more detailed sentiment analysis of a representative sample. This analysis was carried out on a highly robust and representative subsample of non-Jewish fans, and given the context and history of the word, the Club felt it was also important to include all responses from Jewish fans in this extra analysis.

The outcome of these exercises has clearly demonstrated the complex and evolving nature of this issue.

Fans Usage

The consultation that was carried out, showed that, whilst the majority of all the respondents, 67%, stated that they regularly chanted the word in a football match situation, virtually all qualified this behaviour by putting this into context and outlining many of the issues associated with its use.

The follow-up sentiment analysis carried out by Populus showed that 74% of non-Jewish respondents and 73% of Jewish respondents were generally in favour of fans being allowed to use the Y-word while 12% of non-Jewish respondents and 8% of Jewish respondents stated that they were either unsure or held a neutral position on whether fans should be allowed to continue to use the word.

History of the Word

Some supporters outlined in their comments how the term came into use in response to anti-Semitic chanting from rival supporters with a significant proportion of fans (39% of non-Jewish respondents and 29% of Jewish respondents) stating that the word was part of Spurs’ “heritage and identity”.

One fan explained, “I remember standing at White Hart Lane in the 1970s and 80s while rival supporters especially from London Clubs chanted anti-Semitic songs ... Once the Spurs supporters adopted the word as their own identity then the rival chanting ceased.”

A number of our supporters also explained that the term was now “a sign of togetherness, part of our history and heritage” and was viewed as a “badge of honour” sung by fans because they “are proud to be part of Tottenham”.

Intent and Context

Many fans (46% of non-Jewish respondents and 40% of Jewish respondents) did identify however that the context and intent was an important consideration in this debate. One fan said “I think context is the key thing, which determines if any word is offensive, or not. When used by Spurs fans, the term ‘Yid’ is a sign of respect saying ‘you’re one of us’. Most of us are not Jewish; that does not matter because the word is not being used literally.”

Another fan explained, “I consider myself a respectful person and would never use the term ‘Yid’ to cause offence to another supporter or member of the public. The use of the word at the Lane is always in reference to ourselves and therefore intends to cause no harm or distress to others.”

Where fans identified context, many also recognised that context is subjective; and that offence can be taken, even when not intended.

Concerns raised about continued use

A number of supporters, (12% of non-Jewish respondents and 18% of Jewish respondents) outlined that they were against allowing fans to continue to use the term with 4% of non-Jewish fans and 6% of Jewish fans specifically stating that they were personally uncomfortable with its use.

One fan said, “As a Jew I feel the Y-word is socially and morally wrong”, while another stated “I believe we need to drop the Y-word at Spurs because I would not be comfortable to take my children to games and have to explain the fans are singing the Y-word and what it means, especially in the context of the historical persecution of the Jews across Europe.”

13% of the non-Jewish fans were of the view that if people found the term offensive it should be dropped (compared with 4% of Jewish respondents), while a number of fans (8% of non-Jewish respondents and 9% of Jewish respondents) specifically identified that it was now time to phase out the use of the term, with fans citing a number of different reasons as to why. One fan clarified that “even if there is just one fan – Spurs or non-Spurs – who is genuinely offended by the use of the term, then that is one fan too many.”

Another fan explained, “Whether used in the context of direct or anti-Semitic abuse, or as a kind of pre-emptive strike against such abuse, ‘Yid’ retains a negative and aggressive quality. For that reason alone I would urge Spurs fans, whatever their motive, not to use it.”

Notably, 6% of Jewish supporters, used the confidentiality of this consultation to identify that they found the term to be genuinely offensive (compared with less than 1% of non-Jewish respondents). One fan commented “I am not Jewish, but I find the use of the term offensive, embarrassing and inappropriate in the modern world.” While another fan explained “I fully appreciate that in most cases the Y-word is used to describe a Spurs fan, but to those of us who are Jewish and certainly to me it is offensive.”

This consultation has shown that many supporters acknowledge that the use of the word needs to be re-assessed and that, whilst our fans and the law recognise the importance of context, ultimately context is not the only consideration.

We would ask all our fans to give due consideration to the varied sentiments and opinions expressed, in order to ensure that the support of our Club is inclusive and forward–looking."

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Interesting read, but actually reaffirms what we all knew already - that there are varying opinions - and solves nothing, whilst the club still refuse to take an official stance on the matter.

What I would be interested to know is where the guys that don't like the chanting are sitting, what they go for, and do they join in with any other chants. The whole point of going to The Lane is to soak up the atmosphere and be a part of it, not to sit there and listen to others and then complain about what they sing. Maybe a little insensitive, but Mr "I have to explain to my kids about the y-word" is obviously in denial that his kids won't hear far worse in the playground and down the park. 5,000 Spurs fans chanting Yid Army harmoniously is bound to cause offence to a minority (which is now a fact) but then it is also offensive for little Johnny to call your boy a 'Jewish cunt', or for the drunk guy behind you and your lad to scream and shout abuse for 90 minutes. Does he have to explain to his boy what a 'cunt' is?

There will never be agreement on the matter, and as generations move on I suspect we will slowly see the word Yid banded round less and less. I, personally, think that is a real shame.
 
Last paragraph is interesting - basically the club bottle it and don't seem to make any proper conclusion or recommendation:

"We would ask all our fans to give due consideration to the varied sentiments and opinions expressed, in order to ensure that the support of our Club is inclusive and forward–looking."
 
I wonder whether Israeli Commandos chant "we are Tottenham?"

Might be time to move on from the Yid Army nonsense. That may upset some Jewish fans though.

Or buy a player called Edami and chant his name repeatedly.
 
Difficult one for the club - a very small minority offended: they can't/shouldn't reasonably dismiss/ignore them! But the majority are in favour of its use so I can understand their reluctance to jump off the fence.

As Millbanks Millbanks points out above, you don't really know whether those who object also object to the bulk of other chants and are thus just dickheads who like to complain.
 
I mentioned a while back that I was always a firm supporter of chanting Yid Army but have since spoken to my Grandparents (not by birth but in name and complete devotion) and both say it evokes horrible memories and makes them feel entirely uncomfortable. I have no argument with that, no matter how much I miss the chant, and I do believe it has had a huge impact, I'd be a perpetrator of something that makes my grandparents upset.

Interestingly; my Dad, again not by birth, is a firm believer in using the word Yid - but I concentrate on what hurts above all else.

It's a no for me.
 
I have no doubt it evokes bad memories for them, and many others, but are they unable to see the context in which it is used? The away fans stood in the corner hurling all kinds of anti-semitic abuse (something I imagine would hurt them more?) and Spurs fans, Jewish and non-Jewish, stand as one, united, and deflect the abuse and make it as meaningless as possible.

1) The club have made it no clearer as to where they stand on the issue, so I'm not sure what they was hoping to achieve with this poll. I could have guessed the results.

2) Spurs fans have been chanting it long before I was born, it has been a staple of The Lane for decades. I can't understand how anyone that is genuinely and seriously offended by the chant goes to matches regularly knowing what they are going to hear. I may be wrong but it seems it's the older generation that is offended by the word, evoking bad memories etc, but this isn't a new chant, so why, 20/30-odd years after we started chanting it, is this suddenly becoming offensive to people again? We aren't going around the streets yelling it. Every Saturday (or Sunday these days) there is one collective place we use it. It's hardly crime of the century.
 
I think the whole debate got stupid when it became a matter of law.

If fans choose to chant it or not, it goes down to what they feel is right. I think to prosecute on the basis of chanting something that is not meant to cause offence, well even the CPS are in a struggle about that one.

The fact is some people are genuinely offended by our fans use of the 'y' word and always will be, that is not because of club affiliation or a grudge against Tottenham.

It's ultimately a moral question which we as fans have to decide on. The club's stance is neither here nor there, whatever they wrote there would still be the chant at the next game.
 
If fans choose to chant it or not, it goes down to what they feel is right.
I'm not going to get back into this debate again, but this comment, frankly, shows how little regard so many fans have for those sections of the Jewish community who have experienced antisemitism - fans who claim to show solidarity with said community. The perfect example of why wanting to shout "yid" was never about reclaiming the word and standing with the Jewish community, despite the trumped up claims of many, it has only really ever been about the fact that Spurs fans have for decades now associated themselves with the word as a tribal label. Nothing more, nothing less. Hell the rest is just crap people have subsequently invented to justify it, but I remember the days before this debate was front and centre - many fans who chanted it didn't even have a clue what it meant!

A sign of maturity is to understand that in any given situation it is not just about one's own views, but often those of others as well. It is known by a very important word - respect.

So far the attitude of too many fans has been "well I don't say it to be racist so fuck anyone who gets offended". Hiding behind the context and intent argument. But, like it or lump it, things haven't moved on completely yet and there are still plenty of Jews who regard it as a slur and who have, or have known relatives who have, been on the receiving end. In fact, this is precisely why the club can't come out and say that they condone the practice.

The bottom line truth of the matter is that the Yid word is here to stay. It is so ingrained into the identity of Spurs fandom that to remove it causes a hole that, at present, is unlikely to be filled with anything else. But that doesn't mean that fans aren't still putting their own desire for tribal identity beyond the misery and hurt of Jews and their families who have racially abused.
 
I have no care for debate on this issue. Because it's futile. I, and many others, will never stop singing 'Yid Army' or 'Yiddo'. If that offends the minority, they'll have to deal with it I'm afraid. I'm not stopping saying something that is entirely intended as a form of brotherhood and identity because someone chooses to be offended.

Fuck David Baddiel and anyone who buys into his complete bullshit.
 
A SAINTS fan has been arrested on racially aggravated charges after being accused of making anti-Semitic remarks during last Sunday's away game with Tottenham Hotspur.

Police have confirmed that the 57-year-old supporter was arrested following complaints about comments made during the White Hart Lane match which saw Saints suffer a 3-2 defeat.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “During the match officers in the stadium received a complaint regarding the behaviour of a man sat in an area reserved for away supporters.

“The complaint was made by two people sat in the same area of the stadium.“Officers arrested the man, aged 57, on suspicion of a racially aggravated offence under section five of the Public Order Act.“He was taken into custody and subsequently bailed until 19 May, pending further investigation.”

The man was arrested in the away section of the stadium.

Fucking grow up and go and change your Piss Bag you stupid old Cunt.
 
I might move to Compton and then tell all the black and white people to stop calling each other 'nigger' because it offends me.

Forget the fact they use it as a term of endearment, I am offended and am therefore right.
 
“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.”

Ricky Gervais

Kind of apt. I think people ultimately have a choice to be offended or not. I get called a cunt on a daily basis by friends and such, i choose to take it as a term of endearment. Were i jewish and someone said called me a "dirty yid" or something like that, id probably say "Yeah, i am a yid, whats your point?".

But thats just me, if I'm honest, i still don't entirely understand why the word Yid is offensive. Considering its origins and meanings. People compare it to calling a black person nigger, but that has slave connotations and such, so i can see where the negativity comes from. Still just seems like people choosing to take offence.
 
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