Just fucking kick it about a bit
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Tactics Best formation and tactics to beat Liverpool...
- Thread starter Leondna
- Start date
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Re Trippier vs Aurier..
Not it's not the best choice in the world, but.
Aurier is faster and stronger than Trippier. His positional sense is also seemingly random, an no amount of speed makes up for being 3 yards on the wrong side of a winger. He's also a card and penalty machine, and offers little going forward.
Trippier has been poor this year, in particular with positional sense which is weird as normally that's the one thing that improves in a player's career, it rarely gets worse. I suspect this is as much to do with him being targeted than a supposed loss of ability. Trippier offers something going forward, although again not much this season.
Pretty sure Poch will stick with Trippier, and hope he has the game of his life. He can play well, he's a good dead ball option and if this isn't the game to deliver the goods.....well there you go.
Poch is probably thinking play Tripps and lose a goal, but score two, or play Aurier and risk a red card/penalty.... Why have we had KWP on the roids for fuck's sake!
Not it's not the best choice in the world, but.
Aurier is faster and stronger than Trippier. His positional sense is also seemingly random, an no amount of speed makes up for being 3 yards on the wrong side of a winger. He's also a card and penalty machine, and offers little going forward.
Trippier has been poor this year, in particular with positional sense which is weird as normally that's the one thing that improves in a player's career, it rarely gets worse. I suspect this is as much to do with him being targeted than a supposed loss of ability. Trippier offers something going forward, although again not much this season.
Pretty sure Poch will stick with Trippier, and hope he has the game of his life. He can play well, he's a good dead ball option and if this isn't the game to deliver the goods.....well there you go.
Poch is probably thinking play Tripps and lose a goal, but score two, or play Aurier and risk a red card/penalty.... Why have we had KWP on the roids for fuck's sake!
And on top of that Aurier hasn’t played for months. No way Poch will take that risk.
It’s an easy one for me, we go with the system that we’ve had most success with which is 4231. Everyone knows their role in that shape and it’s well balanced. The only real question is whether it’s Son or Lucas in attack, because there isn’t room for both.
Lloris
Trippier Alderweireld Vertonghen Rose
Sissoko Winks
Eriksen Dele Son
Kane
I think that’s our best and most balanced team. It’s harsh to leave Lucas out after his hat trick but for me he still doesn’t make our first XI when everyone is fit. We play our best football with Son, Dele and Eriksen supporting Kane and it’s not worth compromising our midfield to fit him in. Son is a better player and over the course of the season has done much more to earn a start than Lucas.
Lloris
Trippier Alderweireld Vertonghen Rose
Sissoko Winks
Eriksen Dele Son
Kane
I think that’s our best and most balanced team. It’s harsh to leave Lucas out after his hat trick but for me he still doesn’t make our first XI when everyone is fit. We play our best football with Son, Dele and Eriksen supporting Kane and it’s not worth compromising our midfield to fit him in. Son is a better player and over the course of the season has done much more to earn a start than Lucas.
This is a bit of a myth though in reality. Aurier may be stronger than Trippier but he is by no means faster. In fact I've been shocked at how slow as shit he's looked since joining. Mané and/or Robertson would burn Aurier for pace just as easily as Trippier.
Don't get me wrong I think Tripps is crap as well, but he's more intelligent, his positioning is better and if I was in Poch's shoes I think I'd have more trust in him to play in the biggest game in our history, and give him the nod.
I don't think there is any proof that Trippier's positioning is better or more intelligent than Aurier.
In fact, most of the goals conceded via Trippier errors this season have been due to his complete lack of intelligence and awful positioning. We conceded 3 goals against Ajax. All of them were down to either Trippier being stupid or being positioned poorly.
If Trippier plays, it's because Pochettino feels he can offer something either from set pieces or one of his 50 crosses may hit the target - not because of his defensive ability.
Fair points.
His positioning is generally woeful as well that is true but I think it's perhaps just a smidge better than Aurier's, and when Trippier loses the ball up the field from what I've seen this season anyway he appears to get back quicker than Aurier. Plus you'd hope that maybe tactically he would be instructed to sit a little deeper rather than pushing forward to try and stop our left hand side getting torn asunder?
I think it's all pretty trivial really though because doesn't matter which one of them starts, it's still going to be one of our weakest and most exploitable areas on the pitch.
Interesting topic, I'd add few points -
-I too agree with the consensus that we should start with back 4. One of the reasons being that then we can put more energy/effort to midfield. We need to suffocate them there. Also athletic players in CM can help to backtrack their fullbacks.
- I also agree that both Dier and Wanyama are too slow to press Pool rather dynamic CM players. I think one of our best recent performances came with Alli-Winks CM pairing.
- I thought one possible lineup that would help to smother their CM and fullbacks, but that might mean focusing too much on their play rather then our own one. I find it unlikely we'd use it but I'll add it more as an thought experiment -
------------Lloris-----------
Trippier-Toby-Jan-Davies
--Sissoko--Winks-Rose--
--Eriksen--Son---Alli-----
Maybe really Kane would give more options as coming on as 65th minute sub, depending how the game has been going.
- Regarding Moura/Son issue - I see little debating room. We ALL are so massively thankful for Moura for what he did in 2nd half in Amsterdam, but what we have seen so much more often is that he needs quite some room and the 1st touch gets often quite long. While Son is cleaver and can dribble past players better. I would trust technically better Son and keep Moura (who relies more on pace in my eyes) as weapon against more tired Pool defence
- Right back issue - well as one can see from my thought experiment lineup I assume Poch uses Tripps. Actually we have 4 players that have filled the position - Trippier, Aurier, KWP, Foyth. To be complety honest I have liked Foyth there. He offers good game reading ability, killer tackle and usually good composure (this Bournemouth game was... well just reckless). Ofc I doubt Poch would take such chance in CL final to try him there.
- Strenghts of Pool has been highlighted here but there are also some weaknesses as well -
- sure VVD is one calm and assured CB, but he is still paired with Matip who is not quite in his class. He is sometimes prone to be bit too slow and we could capitalize from this.
- their attacking fullbacks mean that their wings are quite exposed quite often. I think in our 2nd game with them it showed.
- their high press means that if we can physically make things uncomfortable for them, then they are prone to few errors (such as the one that led to Sissoko surging run in our 2nd game - attack from which we should have scored our winning goal). They really do not have this artist kind of player there (such as Pirlo or Iniesta or Thiago) + their CBs are not as good passers than our duo.
But no matter the tactics chosen, in order to win our whole defence has to be on their toes from whistle to whistle and our CM players have to take every last inch of room away from Pool players. Without those 2 factors it is lost cause.
-I too agree with the consensus that we should start with back 4. One of the reasons being that then we can put more energy/effort to midfield. We need to suffocate them there. Also athletic players in CM can help to backtrack their fullbacks.
- I also agree that both Dier and Wanyama are too slow to press Pool rather dynamic CM players. I think one of our best recent performances came with Alli-Winks CM pairing.
- I thought one possible lineup that would help to smother their CM and fullbacks, but that might mean focusing too much on their play rather then our own one. I find it unlikely we'd use it but I'll add it more as an thought experiment -
------------Lloris-----------
Trippier-Toby-Jan-Davies
--Sissoko--Winks-Rose--
--Eriksen--Son---Alli-----
Maybe really Kane would give more options as coming on as 65th minute sub, depending how the game has been going.
- Regarding Moura/Son issue - I see little debating room. We ALL are so massively thankful for Moura for what he did in 2nd half in Amsterdam, but what we have seen so much more often is that he needs quite some room and the 1st touch gets often quite long. While Son is cleaver and can dribble past players better. I would trust technically better Son and keep Moura (who relies more on pace in my eyes) as weapon against more tired Pool defence
- Right back issue - well as one can see from my thought experiment lineup I assume Poch uses Tripps. Actually we have 4 players that have filled the position - Trippier, Aurier, KWP, Foyth. To be complety honest I have liked Foyth there. He offers good game reading ability, killer tackle and usually good composure (this Bournemouth game was... well just reckless). Ofc I doubt Poch would take such chance in CL final to try him there.
- Strenghts of Pool has been highlighted here but there are also some weaknesses as well -
- sure VVD is one calm and assured CB, but he is still paired with Matip who is not quite in his class. He is sometimes prone to be bit too slow and we could capitalize from this.
- their attacking fullbacks mean that their wings are quite exposed quite often. I think in our 2nd game with them it showed.
- their high press means that if we can physically make things uncomfortable for them, then they are prone to few errors (such as the one that led to Sissoko surging run in our 2nd game - attack from which we should have scored our winning goal). They really do not have this artist kind of player there (such as Pirlo or Iniesta or Thiago) + their CBs are not as good passers than our duo.
But no matter the tactics chosen, in order to win our whole defence has to be on their toes from whistle to whistle and our CM players have to take every last inch of room away from Pool players. Without those 2 factors it is lost cause.
Kick it long to llorente and have players running off him including sonny, Harry and lucus. Play them all. Put Harry next to moussa if you want to start him. He plays deep most of the time anyway and let's face it, neither dier or wanyama are up to it. Don't play football against one of the best footballing teams of the season.
They attack down the flanks from their full backs, play son and moura and drop dele alli.
Kane
Son Eriksen Moura
Winks Sissoko
A bit controversial granted but he hasn't really looked that good during the run in. He is a big game player though... Hmmmm
Son and Moura could pin their fullbacks in their own half more than if we played with less pacy players. They would also have to be aware of the countered counter (lol). If they bomb forward, it would only take one interception from our players, a through ball and Son or Moura are in on goal.
That would be on their minds every time they cross the hall way line.
Kane
Son Eriksen Moura
Winks Sissoko
A bit controversial granted but he hasn't really looked that good during the run in. He is a big game player though... Hmmmm
Son and Moura could pin their fullbacks in their own half more than if we played with less pacy players. They would also have to be aware of the countered counter (lol). If they bomb forward, it would only take one interception from our players, a through ball and Son or Moura are in on goal.
That would be on their minds every time they cross the hall way line.
1. Get a corner
2. Aim at Llorente's hip
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!!
2. Aim at Llorente's hip
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!!
Interesting comments... to summarise what have been discussed:
1) A back four with a more conservative fullbacks are preferred.
2) We need a more dynamic defensive midfield duo to counter Liverpool pressing. Eg., Sissoko + Winks (if fit).
3) We need to penalise Liverpool for their high pressing line and threaten their attacking fullbacks frequently.
4) Trippier vs Aurier... there is a mix of opinion here. Trippier isn’t as pacy and dynamic as Aurier. But Aurier is lacking match fitness and is prone to brain fart. Can be risky to play him when Salad is always looking to fly inside the penalty box. While I believe we can all agree that Aurier is the preferred choice if he is fit, it is all too much of a risk to play him there now.
5) Attacking liverpool weakness - Matip. Ideally, if Kane is fit enough to last the whole game, Kane will fancy his chances against Matip. Essentially, Pochettino game plan must revolve around creating enough opportunities for their defence to make mistakes and we need to be clinical about it.
1) A back four with a more conservative fullbacks are preferred.
2) We need a more dynamic defensive midfield duo to counter Liverpool pressing. Eg., Sissoko + Winks (if fit).
3) We need to penalise Liverpool for their high pressing line and threaten their attacking fullbacks frequently.
4) Trippier vs Aurier... there is a mix of opinion here. Trippier isn’t as pacy and dynamic as Aurier. But Aurier is lacking match fitness and is prone to brain fart. Can be risky to play him when Salad is always looking to fly inside the penalty box. While I believe we can all agree that Aurier is the preferred choice if he is fit, it is all too much of a risk to play him there now.
5) Attacking liverpool weakness - Matip. Ideally, if Kane is fit enough to last the whole game, Kane will fancy his chances against Matip. Essentially, Pochettino game plan must revolve around creating enough opportunities for their defence to make mistakes and we need to be clinical about it.
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With the consensus that we should go with the 4231.
Tripps over Serge because of form. He needs to sit there though and be pretty boring cause Mane will make him pay.
Sissoko Winks
Son over Maura
Kane will start IMO.
Tripps over Serge because of form. He needs to sit there though and be pretty boring cause Mane will make him pay.
Sissoko Winks
Son over Maura
Kane will start IMO.
High press seems dangerous against Salah and Mane. The tactics vs Man City are more suitable - defend deep and counter fast with Son and Moura (Sorry Dele) exposing their offensive full backs.
A high press + Trippier = disaster
Actually, last year or the year before, we were pressing more than what we are doing this year and with success. We were considered one of the best team in the Premier League... and that’s when we have Trippier on par with Kyle Walker in terms of their performance.
I guess the problem is not only with Trippier, but a host of other problems. Eg., lack of rotation, fatigue due to WC and less than ideal preseason, opponents figuring out how to counter press etc. Of course, he suffered a dip in form too.
An illustration how we can break Liverpool pressing:
Eg., Everton vs Spurs. We played 4-2-3-1 which shifted to a 4-4-2 diamond when attacking. In this game, Winks and Sissoko combined effectively tgr to score our second goal.
1) Image below shows Everton pressing high up the pitch.
Winks passes the ball into the path of Sissoko who makes the run into the empty spaces in front of him.
2) Sissoko plays a 1-2 with Dele, effective cutting through Everton midfield who are mostly still covering back lost ground.
3) Sissoko then threads a through ball to Son who manages to shoot on target, GK saving it and then Dele taps in the rebound.
Winks + Sissoko partnership will be crucial in the UCL final assuming Wink is fit to play.
Eg., Everton vs Spurs. We played 4-2-3-1 which shifted to a 4-4-2 diamond when attacking. In this game, Winks and Sissoko combined effectively tgr to score our second goal.
1) Image below shows Everton pressing high up the pitch.
Winks passes the ball into the path of Sissoko who makes the run into the empty spaces in front of him.
2) Sissoko plays a 1-2 with Dele, effective cutting through Everton midfield who are mostly still covering back lost ground.
3) Sissoko then threads a through ball to Son who manages to shoot on target, GK saving it and then Dele taps in the rebound.
Winks + Sissoko partnership will be crucial in the UCL final assuming Wink is fit to play.
No chance we can drop Dele Alli.
Kick shite out of their full backs so they can't run.
Job done.
Job done.
I like this. It is close to what I'd do as well.
Four at the back and overload midfield. We're only trying to win by a single goal, what we need is some control of the game. More bodies in midfield means our fullbacks don't always have to supply the width meaning they don't get stranded so much. Cut the supply to the wings as early as possible from our forward players. If they get past that point picking out their FBs on our wings then we're fucked because we don't handle those situations well defensively.
Kane is a game changer and if he can play 90 minutes plus extra time then I would play him from the start. But assuming he can't then I'd play Dele in a false 9 position with Son and Moura providing pace on the wings. It's sort of a midfield 433 I really think this set up would cause Liverpool problems and there is defense and good work ethic in the team all the way from the front back which is going to matter because Liverpool are great at attacking. In central midfield we avoid having two players getting pulled into the wings and finding ourselves short in the middle, because we we have an extra man there.
I just see this allowing us to suffocate their attack at root and at the same time allows us to do what we're best at, attacking.
Lloris
Tripper, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose
Sissoko, Winks, Eriksen,
Moura, Dele, Son