-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Transfers Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Some fans are vocal and repetitive, don't think it's a majority veiw just seems like it sometimes.
The unlabeled Spurs player (above Doucouré) is apparently Sissoko.
Shows again how bad stats are.
We just watched Winks okay a full season where he was horrible at moving the ball forward. Couldn’t make a pass to open up the defense or put a forward in a good spot at all.
That chart shows why you need to use stats in conjunction with watching games so you can see what is actually happening not just what numbers, which are ultimately irrelevant, say happened.
I won't argue against your point of his struggles, but can't you contribute some of that to us having poor fullbacks and no DM? His role was changed and the lack of quality around him made his job harder. I would certainly welcome an upgrade, but I don't think it's the most vital need right now. I think he's shown me enough to at least keep him on the team. Ideal scenario would be upgrading for a starter and having him play off the bench and cup games.
Not really how data is used, though, is it? Data identifies patterns which can then be scrutinised and acted upon. True, the data can miss certain things, but it can’t hide them. You’d saying he doesn’t pass forward is clearly nonsense as the data says he does?? It suggests more about what you’re missing than what Winks is doing.
And yet, he’s one of the league’s leading CMs in ball progression. Passing AND dribbling.
I love the idea of having him on the bench and as the captain/leader of the EL/Cup team.
I think playing with Sissoko didn’t help but I don’t think it prevented him from moving the ball quicker or making passes to open up a defense.
I think it is also not his fault that we lack creativity elsewhere in our squad. Maybe in a set up like a Liverpool with their front 3 and ability to create with their FBs he could fit better, but with us with having such a lack of creativity and passing ability elsewhere in the squad we can’t waste a spot in the MF adding another player like that.
you missed my edit....AND cup games. not of haha
The problem with stats is there is zero context. So you get credit for advancing the ball 10 yards if the defense drops back and gives you that 10 yards or if you beat a defender and moved into that area vacated by them creating an attacking chance. In that chart both actions are counted equally but when watching it is clear that one is much more difficult and valuable than the other.
With Winks the issue is there is too much of the former and not enough of the latter. Which is why we see him recycling the ball back to the back 4 when the pressure is on allowing the defense to drop back and then advances it into the areas the defense have left free in front of them which isn't a great attacking position.
What we need more of is guys who don't need to wait for the defense to drop back into a comfortable defensive position but can attack the defense and create chances by gaining ground that they don't concede but instead are now wide open because you beat a defender with a pass or run.
Top 4 at least.....
Gets you a trophy too (if you win the playoffs).
Finally a trophy!
I get your point, but what we 100% don’t need is someone trying take-ons, losing the ball and then putting pressure on our fragile back line. There’s a time and place for those moves and it’s not the position that Winks has been asked to play.
Those two aren't the same thing.
Poch didn’t want him or rate him then had to play him out of necessity. Same Mourinho. He’s not good enough for us. Once he’s out of the team we immediately improve. No idea who that guy is but there’s zero context in his statement.
Pretty sure Mourinho was moaning about him being injured, plus Poch played him loads. This argument’s been had plenty of times, so best leave it here.
Yes I agree we don't need someone who sucks in that role. But only focusing on the negatives that can happen and playing accordingly is what holds mediocre teams back,
They can be and are certainly skills that the same player can have.
Winks is poor at both.
These friendliest have shown who we could move on. We could get a fair whack for Aurier, ccv, Lamela, Sissoko and gazzaniga.