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tommyboyspurs said:
that is cheap wonder why we not going for him
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Do you stop and think about anything... Seriously? You're the archetypal computer game kid... Zero joined up thinking.... Just a clusterfuck of wannabe scout-isms underpinned by a default of "Spurs must be doing something wrong here" thinking.....

1. The tweet says they want MORE money than that.... Probably much more.
2. If the player is offered BM by his agent; isn't it obvious who he'd pick?
3. If he is indeed being offered about; its agent-ism and they have no say on the trf fee.
4. No deal gets done without agreement from Ajax.
 
Herclueless said:
Who the fuck do Bayern think they are??? Negotiating a deal outside of the TW! Don't they know that scouts don't like working outside of June-September and January (and even that is a push!)...

This kind of bullshit will have Steve Hitchen thinking twice about jumping back into employment!
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Whilst I think there is validity to your sarcasm......

WDF happened to the notion that tapping up is bad and punishable?


BM in particular seem to do this constantly.
 
Airfixx said:
Whilst I think there is validity to your sarcasm......

WDF happened to the notion that tapping up is bad and punishable?


BM in particular seem to do this constantly.
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It does seem to have become more commonplace, I'm not sure where the line is drawn these days tbh between chatting to agents and tapping up, like how was what Liverpool got in trouble for over VVD different to any other deal?

But, is what Bayern have done here anything like that, I only read the headline but aren;t they just negotiating a deal with Ajax?
 
Herclueless said:
It does seem to have become more commonplace, I'm not sure where the line is drawn these days tbh between chatting to agents and tapping up, like how was what Liverpool got in trouble for over VVD different to any other deal?
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The issue is that it's hard to prove and legally define the exact nature of what is or isn't taking place; but I suspect leagues just turn a blind eye unless a particular club kicks up a fuss about any individual incident.

Inevitably, the agents are the snake in the proverbial grass making this all the more of a grey area.... (An added degree of separation so to speak.)

Herclueless said:
But, is what Bayern have done here anything like that, I only read the headline but aren;t they just negotiating a deal with Ajax?
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By my limited understanding an "official bid" shouldn't even be allowed or entertained. Fuck knows how open Ajax are to them making offers or advances to their player at this point.


Granted, certain caveats will apply to a player in the last 6 months of their deal, but that doesn't apply here.
 
Airfixx said:
The issue is that it's hard to prove and legally define the exact nature of what is or isn't taking place; but I suspect leagues just turn a blind eye unless a particular club kicks up a fuss about any individual incident.

Inevitably, the agents are the snake in the proverbial grass making this all the more of a grey area.... (An added degree of separation so to speak.)



By my limited understanding an "official bid" shouldn't even be allowed or entertained. Fuck knows how open Ajax are to them making offers or advances to their player at this point.


Granted, certain caveats will apply to a player in the last 6 months of their deal, but that doesn't apply here.
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Might be bad sportsmanship, but there's no rules about it, a club can make a bid for a player any time they like for a transfer to be completed as soon as the window opens, it's what we did with Modric.

Actually tbh I find it irritating that currently we aren't more proactive in this respect, given how much we are led to believe it is difficult and time consuming to get deals over the line, we should be doing the admin work already for the summer to come given that we have some key deficiencies to address.
 
Herclueless said:
Might be bad sportsmanship, but there's no rules about it, a club can make a bid for a player any time they like for a transfer to be completed as soon as the window opens, it's what we did with Modric.
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It may perhaps differ depending on the leagues in question, but official complaints regarding "tapping up" are very much a thing.

.....Obv. if a club is open to any dialogue the whole subject becomes moot.


More a case of windows/deadlines etc. but Pulisic > Chavs was dodgy as fuck though...... 'Agreed' the deal ahead of a window they in fact had a transfer ban in.

Herclueless said:
Actually tbh I find it irritating that currently we aren't more proactive in this respect, given how much we are led to believe it is difficult and time consuming to get deals over the line, we should be doing the admin work already for the summer to come given that we have some key deficiencies to address.
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It's been a general recruitment shit show for a number of years..... (By far our biggest failure)

We were however linked to Kulu as early as November last year so hopefully that's about to improve.
 
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Herclueless said:
Might be bad sportsmanship, but there's no rules about it, a club can make a bid for a player any time they like for a transfer to be completed as soon as the window opens, it's what we did with Modric.

Actually tbh I find it irritating that currently we aren't more proactive in this respect, given how much we are led to believe it is difficult and time consuming to get deals over the line, we should be doing the admin work already for the summer to come given that we have some key deficiencies to address.
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Since a deal cannot be completed outside a transfer window there is significant risk to trying to finalise a deal before the window opens - the risk being that the early worm gets gazumped before the deal can be completed and registered (remembering Willian was taking his medical at Spurs before being we were gazumped by Chelsea - so a deal is is not done until contract signed and registered as a transfer).

However I'm sure that quite a few discussions take place outside transfer windows - its just these cannot be guaranteed to be 'exclusive' between one player and one club.
 
Spursidol said:
Since a deal cannot be completed outside a transfer window there is significant risk to trying to finalise a deal before the window opens - the risk being that the early worm gets gazumped before the deal can be completed and registered (remembering Willian was taking his medical at Spurs before being we were gazumped by Chelsea - so a deal is is not done until contract signed and registered as a transfer).

However I'm sure that quite a few discussions take place outside transfer windows - its just these cannot be guaranteed to be 'exclusive' between one player and one club.
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A deal can be completed outside the window, nothing stopping a legal agreement between the parties - as you say the player can't be registered to the new club.
 
Airfixx said:
It may perhaps differ depending on the leagues in question, but official complaints regarding "tapping up" are very much a thing.

.....Obv. if a club is open to any dialogue the whole subject becomes moot.


More a case of windows/deadlines etc. but Pulisic > Chavs was dodgy as fuck though...... 'Agreed' the deal ahead of a window they in fact had a transfer ban in.



It's been a general recruitment shit show for a number of years..... (By far our biggest failure)

We were however linked to Kulu as early as November this year so hopefully that's about to improve.
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Tapping up is going to the press or directly to the player... Official bids to the other club is not considered tapping up. If they then make the approach public its a grey area
 
r-u-s-x said:
Tapping up is going to the press or directly to the player... Official bids to the other club is not considered tapping up. If they then make the approach public its a grey area
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Sure, but in the modern game (unless a selling club is canvassing agents for a sale); how often does a bid just land on a chairman's desk without a degree of clandestine interaction between an agent and a suitor first?


Liverpool certainly got threatened with something they way they backed off so sharply off from their initial pursuit of VVD.

It was rumoured that Levy was going to go legal over the City/Kane saga... I don't know what, if anything, came of that.

The threat of action still seems to be there in some capacity if clubs choose to go down that path, but like I say it's a grey, semi-tangible area.
 
Spursidol said:
Since a deal cannot be completed outside a transfer window there is significant risk to trying to finalise a deal before the window opens - the risk being that the early worm gets gazumped before the deal can be completed and registered (remembering Willian was taking his medical at Spurs before being we were gazumped by Chelsea - so a deal is is not done until contract signed and registered as a transfer).
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How is that any more risky than having no agreement in place at all?

Spursidol said:
However I'm sure that quite a few discussions take place outside transfer windows - its just these cannot be guaranteed to be 'exclusive' between one player and one club.
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Well that guarantee isn't necessarily forthcoming anyway..... See L.Diaz this summer and the aforementioned WIllian.
 
Airfixx said:
Sure, but in the modern game (unless a selling club is canvassing agents for a sale); how often does a bid just land on a chairman's desk without a degree of clandestine interaction between an agent and a suitor first?
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You still hear stories from recently ex players... "first time I heard I was sold was after the deal was made". If you are a buying club and are interested in a player who's contract is up in 2023 I can see the logic of making an approach to the club.
 
Spursidol said:
you potentially end u[ with NO candidates as you've lost them to other clubs !

Negotiating deals in any business carries risks. In the football business we probably need to talk to and potentially line up a couple of players and finalise the deals in the next transfer window.
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I think we're talking at cross purposes here cos I don't understand your take here at all.

Lining up a player trf, ready to sign the moment the trf window opens; creates a higher likelihood of losing the player than if there was no agreement and you just announce your interest on 1st July???
 
Airfixx said:
I think we're talking at cross purposes here cos I don't understand your take here at all.

Lining up a player trf, ready to sign the moment the trf window opens; creates a higher likelihood of losing the player than if there was no agreement and you just announce your interest on 1st July???
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you are correct. you didn't understand my post at all.

But not sure how to make it clearer as its based upon my personal experience of negotiating deals (not in football) so leave it at that
 
Airfixx said:
Do you stop and think about anything... Seriously? You're the archetypal computer game kid... Zero joined up thinking.... Just a clusterfuck of wannabe scout-isms underpinned by a default of "Spurs must be doing something wrong here" thinking.....

1. The tweet says they want MORE money than that.... Probably much more.
2. If the player is offered BM by his agent; isn't it obvious who he'd pick?
3. If he is indeed being offered about; its agent-ism and they have no say on the trf fee.
4. No deal gets done without agreement from Ajax.
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You remind me of a headmaster at a Boarding School
 
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