Management ENIC

stevee · 13 Jul 2023

Nuts said:
I think the main thing is just to accept their viewpoint is different. We can debate it - nothing wrong with that (with a healthy dollop of banter of course) - but we're not going to change their minds. Not after all that's happened of late. They fundamentally back Levy/ENIC. And some of them - stevee , LeParisien , AberdeenYid etc - can argue their case well, which is exactly what forums are about. We are all Spurs after all.

(this grass is the biz btw - I could not feel more zen)

We can debate and nobody is going to change anyone's mind from either side.

Some you can have a decent debate with, Others have to twist things and put forward false narratives.

LeParisien · 14 Jul 2023

Nuts said:
I think the main thing is just to accept their viewpoint is different. We can debate it - nothing wrong with that (with a healthy dollop of banter of course) - but we're not going to change their minds. Not after all that's happened of late. They fundamentally back Levy/ENIC. And some of them - stevee , LeParisien , AberdeenYid etc - can argue their case well, which is exactly what forums are about. We are all Spurs after all.

(this grass is the biz btw - I could not feel more zen)

You engage in good faith which is all we can hope for on here.

Internet is polarising.

Zomb · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
So we don't in fact have the highest ST prices.

Thanks for confirming.

Football clubs accused for taking advantage after hiking season ticket prices

Ten Premier League clubs have pushed up the prices of season tickets despite an ongoing cost of living crisis which has Brits struggling to put food on the table and pay soaring energy bills

www.mirror.co.uk

STFU

This shows lowest ticket prices - the club have made it clear that less than few % of tickets (500 I think) are at the this price. The average is well above a grand, I would use average rather than lowest to gauge highest prices and we have the highest average. Do you know anyone who pays 807? Most cheap areas are still a grand. Why you even attempt to defend this ENIC strategy I have no idea. Weird

WillWilliams · 14 Jul 2023

Zomb said:
Not true. We have a handful of cheaper ST’s but it’s less than 5%.

It’s not even that. Our STs give just the 19 league games. No cup games.

Woolwich give you 19 league games and three CL group game tickets. So you’re not really comparing the same thing.

As always you have to dig a little deeper.

From the trust after last seasons first CL game to reiterate the clubs policy of charging relatively high prices for these games.

Ticketing strategy for Champions League matches at Spurs

Before the publication of the ticket pricing for the Marseille match, we made clear to the Club our view that the pricing at Category B was too high, and completely out of line with that of other...

www.thstofficial.com

“Before the publication of the ticket pricing for the Marseille match, we made clear to the Club our view that the pricing at Category B was too high, and completely out of line with that of other clubs.

We believe that this was borne out by the ticket sales and the fact that Season Ticket holders were later invited to buy up to four guest tickets.

Whilst an attendance of 57,367 is respectable, we would hope and expect all Champions League home matches to be fully sold out. “

CroSpurs · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
I've no problem with anyone being frustrated or those that are bothered.

It's the false narratives, the outright lies and the twisting of things that anniys me.

If people are really serious about getting Enic out, then do something about it other than posting endlessly on a forum.
Having 20 people at a protest is truly pathetic if people are serious.

Nobody is saying that they are "content" .
There are no "Enic fans"
There are no "Enic backers"

Some of us believe that Levy doesn't pick the teams that lose semi finals, finals and get turned over by champo teams in cup games.

And before anyone says "Who employs the managers and buys the players" I'd just say that nobody, from either side, said "Well done Levy for getting us to finals, including our first ever CL final"

You can't have it both ways, either Levy is responsible for all the good as well as the bad, or he's not at all.

I find it weird to constantly back someone like Levy. He made great things with building this club as a business model. When is the time to compete for trophies?

Tottenham Massive · 14 Jul 2023

Zomb said:
Football clubs accused for taking advantage after hiking season ticket prices

Ten Premier League clubs have pushed up the prices of season tickets despite an ongoing cost of living crisis which has Brits struggling to put food on the table and pay soaring energy bills

www.mirror.co.uk

. Why you even attempt to defend this ENIC strategy I have no idea. Weird

Its astonishing, isn't it.

I've come to the conclusion long ago there's a small hardcore of ENIC supporters who will never, ever under any circumstances change their view.

There is nothing they could do or fail to do, no new scandal that would unfold, no new depth to which the team could plummet..... They will always, in the end, back their man Daniel Levy.

That's why they are, despite their denial, ENIC fans first and foremost. More determined to support the owners than the team. More upset by criticism of Levy than going 5-0 down inside 20 minutes at Newcastle

I now generally just glance past their posts with a wry smile and a chuckle and no longer deem them worthy of a response..

You cannot argue with them. Any debate just descends in to a farce.

Zomb · 14 Jul 2023

Joan Thomas said:
Its astonishing, isn't it.

I've come to the conclusion long ago there's a small hardcore of ENIC supporters who will never, ever under any circumstances change their view.

There is nothing they could do or fail to do, no new scandal that would unfold, no new depth to which the team could plummet..... They will always, in the end, back their man Daniel Levy.

That's why they are, despite their denial, ENIC fans first and foremost. More determined to support the owners than the team. More upset by criticism of Levy than going 5-0 down inside 20 minutes at Newcastle

I now generally just glance past their posts with a wry smile and a chuckle and no longer deem them worthy of a response..

You cannot argue with them. Any debate just descends in to a farce.

I can accept an argument that Levy is not responsible for on field performance but quite frankly the utter cunts counter arguing and defending his ticket pricing is astonishing. Look at that fucking table, ours are already ridiculous - not increasing ST’s is not a win.

stevee · 14 Jul 2023

Zomb said:
Football clubs accused for taking advantage after hiking season ticket prices

Ten Premier League clubs have pushed up the prices of season tickets despite an ongoing cost of living crisis which has Brits struggling to put food on the table and pay soaring energy bills

www.mirror.co.uk

STFU

This shows lowest ticket prices - the club have made it clear that less than few % of tickets (500 I think) are at the this price. The average is well above a grand, I would use average rather than lowest to gauge highest prices and we have the highest average. Do you know anyone who pays 807? Most cheap areas are still a grand. Why you even attempt to defend this ENIC strategy I have no idea. Weird

Bit rude.

You showing me the lowest ticket prices, does not mean we have the highest.
Once again, thanks for proving that we don't have the highest ST prices.

That wasn't the point put forward.
The point was that we had the highest, full stop.

You are quite entitled to say we have the highest average ticket prices, and I'd agree with you.
But that is moving the goalposts.

Btw, that article is either out of date or plain wrong.
17 clubs have increased their ST prices.

dudu · 14 Jul 2023

FightingIllini said:
The way all of this zombie army always does the same strange rhetorical move of trying to bargain down the decline makes me ever more convinced it's just a bunch of alts.

The facts are clear. We took 19 more points from the five years preceding Poch's arrival than we have in the most recent five years.

We last bettered AVB's first season points haul six years ago.

In three of the past four seasons we've taken fewer points than Jol did in the dodgy lasagna season.

The trend is sharply and unambiguously downward since the wrecking ball swung on White Hart Lane in May 2017 and we are clearly in a weaker competitive position than we were a decade ago before the Poch Miracle happened.

I haven't bargained down the decline - I use context to understand why it happened.

I also don't think points totals are a fair way to judge a team because it doesn't consider the league's competitiveness and a whole host of other factors.

For instance, only 2 teams in the whole league took more points than in AVB's first season at us in 2018/2019, 2019/20 & 2020/21.

I think it is also worth remembering that despite the downward spiral, we also bucked the trend somewhat when we finished in the CL spot at the end of the 2021/22 season.

No one is denying we have been less competitive in many of the recent seasons. We have been trying to find our way since Poch left and the. people running the club have failed at rectifying that so far.

It is somewhat typical for a club to go on a downward trajectory after a coach that has been there for 5 years + leaves..... Happened to Arsneal, United, Liverpool.... we arent immune from that.

Should we have had better succession planning - hindsight tells me yes. We should have hired coaches more in line with our actual philosophy, and not try to win now when we wouldn't be able to compete for the players the win now coaches would want. For you, I get it, that is a stackable offense for the owners.

I support you and your opinion. Just stop calling me a zombie and an alt for having an opinion you don't like or agree with - it just makes you look like a baby.

Tottenham Massive · 14 Jul 2023

Hotspurpaul said:
It's strange to me how you Levy/Enic.......let's say backers.....are not more bothered than you are....everyone sees us as a laughing stock mate. I have a Chav supporting cousin, Spammer supporting brother in law, Woolwich supporting best mate (yeah i know).....they all take the piss....even the brother in law now..............We've won one trophy in 24 fuckin years, it's unacceptable.
My daughter has just turned 12, she's never seen us win a fuckin trophy......when i was 12 we'd won 5 trophies in my lifetime and were 2 years away from winning a 6th.
If you guys are content with it that's fine, i just don't understand your acceptance.....most of the Spurs fans i talk to are very frustrated though.

It seems that most of the 'backers', the more hardcore ones at least, live in places fairly isolated from the inter club rivalry and tribalism that you experience daily. . They've probably never experienced the piss taking you talk of that’s become synonymous with the club under ENIC.

I dunno'. I guess I'm just trying to rationalise their thoughts or their motives in some way

Hotspurpaul · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
Bit rude.

You showing me the lowest ticket prices, does not mean we have the highest.
Once again, thanks for proving that we don't have the highest ST prices.

That wasn't the point put forward.
The point was that we had the highest, full stop.

You are quite entitled to say we have the highest average ticket prices, and I'd agree with you.
But that is moving the goalposts.

Btw, that article is either out of date or plain wrong.
17 clubs have increased their ST prices.

I bet most of those 17 clubs weren't 5-0 down in 20 minutes..........

:kanehand:

stevee · 14 Jul 2023

dudu said:
I haven't bargained down the decline - I use context to understand why it happened.

I also don't think points totals are a fair way to judge a team because it doesn't consider the league's competitiveness and a whole host of other factors.

For instance, only 2 teams in the whole league took more points than in AVB's first season at us in 2018/2019, 2019/20 & 2020/21.

I think it is also worth remembering that despite the downward spiral, we also bucked the trend somewhat when we finished in the CL spot at the end of the 2021/22 season.

No one is denying we have been less competitive in many of the recent seasons. We have been trying to find our way since Poch left and the. people running the club have failed at rectifying that so far.

It is somewhat typical for a club to go on a downward trajectory after a coach that has been there for 5 years + leaves..... Happened to Arsneal, United, Liverpool.... we arent immune from that.

Should we have had better succession planning - hindsight tells me yes. We should have hired coaches more in line with our actual philosophy, and not try to win now when we wouldn't be able to compete for the players the win now coaches would want. For you, I get it, that is a stackable offense for the owners.

I support you and your opinion. Just stop calling me a zombie and an alt for having an opinion you don't like or agree with - it just makes you look like a baby.

I can't agree with your 2nd paragraph mate.

The old adage of "the table doesn't lie" is still very true.

Obviously the pumped up fake clubs have more money to spend, buy the better players, and win more.
You only have to look at the trophies won in the last 10 years to see that.

The part I do agree with is that it makes for an unfair playing field.

There's is no doubt that Enic could invest money into the club. I was going to say more money, but they haven't invested any money since they've been in charge.

On the other hand, they've always been totally forthright about that.
They are never going to invest money.

stevee · 14 Jul 2023

Hotspurpaul said:
I bet most of those 17 clubs weren't 5-0 down in 20 minutes..........

Probably not no.

They probably didn't beat City either.

:kanehand:

dudu · 14 Jul 2023

Joan Thomas said:
It seems that most of the 'backers', the more hardcore ones at least, live in places fairly isolated from the inter club rivalry and tribalism that you experience daily. . They've probably never experienced the piss taking you talk of that’s become synonymous with the club under ENIC.

I dunno'. I guess I'm just trying to rationalise their thoughts or their motives in some way

Why not just ask them rather than making assumptions? You appear to have labelled me as one of these backers yet my two closest friends are Woolwich fans and the piss-taking, for the most part, has been directed at them since Wenger left.

I see fans using any excuse to piss take other fans team's misfortune every chance they get. Its part of the football banter culture.

Honestly do you think if we won the league and then finished 6th the next season you wouldn't have the piss taken out of you more than ever before?

dudu · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
I can't agree with your 2nd paragraph mate.

The old adage of "the table doesn't lie" is still very true.

Obviously the pumped up fake clubs have more money to spend, buy the better players, and win more.
You only have to look at the trophies won in the last 10 years to see that.

The part I do agree with is that it makes for an unfair playing field.

There's is no doubt that Enic could invest money into the club. I was going to say more money, but they haven't invested any money since they've been in charge.

On the other hand, they've always been totally forthright about that.
They are never going to invest money.

I agree with you - hence why I am saying that the points tally doesn't represent very much - where you finished in the league does,

We finished with fewer points at the end of 21/22 than in AVB's best season yet finished a place higher in the league....

NewZealand_Spur · 14 Jul 2023

Joan Thomas said:
It seems that most of the 'backers', the more hardcore ones at least, live in places fairly isolated from the inter club rivalry and tribalism that you experience daily. . They've probably never experienced the piss taking you talk of that’s become synonymous with the club under ENIC.

I dunno'. I guess I'm just trying to rationalise their thoughts or their motives in some way

stevee is probably the closest one to a backer here in this chat and even then by "backer" he isnt cunting off Baldy every post rather than being an actual boot licker.

Not sure if he is a local to Tottenham and how many games he goes to or even how long he has been following Spurs.

Youre welcome to educate us,

stevee . Lord knows Im not a local but I fly over twice a season. Everybody in the southern hemisphere supports the dippers.

Tottenham Massive · 14 Jul 2023

NewZealand_Spur said:
stevee is probably the closest one to a backer here in this chat and even then by "backer" he isnt cunting off Baldy every post rather than being an actual boot licker.

Not sure if he is a local to Tottenham and how many games he goes to or even how long he has been following Spurs.

Youre welcome to educate us, stevee . Lord knows Im not a local but I fly over twice a season. Everybody in the southern hemisphere supports the dippers.

I remember you from last season when you were telling us you flew over to a game.
Honestly, I was in awe of your dedication, mate...Still am
:adesalute:

This price hike is actually aimed at fans like you, I suppose. Although miniscule in the grand scheme of it for you, obviously, there's still a principle involved, somewhere.

I actually saw someone trying to justify it the other day by using dedicated fans like you as some kind of weapon to support the false argument.

Protect the loyal fans, I.e. ST Holders, and hit the part time fans and day trippers or some such argument. Can't remember who it was, but it's in the last dozen or so pages.

Anyway. Again. Massive respect for your dedication, mate. You put a lot of us over here to shame.

stevee · 14 Jul 2023

NewZealand_Spur said:
stevee is probably the closest one to a backer here in this chat and even then by "backer" he isnt cunting off Baldy every post rather than being an actual boot licker.

Not sure if he is a local to Tottenham and how many games he goes to or even how long he has been following Spurs.

Youre welcome to educate us, stevee . Lord knows Im not a local but I fly over twice a season. Everybody in the southern hemisphere supports the dippers.

I live in Ireland now but was brought up in Hayes Middlesex.

1st game at 10 years old, a 2-2 draw with City in 75 or 76.

Saw us relegated, all my "Spurs" mates jumped ship to other teams.
Got loads of abuse from local gooners.

Went to as many games as I could from about 79 onwards.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Was at Wembley for the semi and final in 91 and in Cardiff in 2008.

Was at Wembley when we lost to those cunts in the semi a couple of years later.
Behind the goal and I was screaming for someone to pick up that wanker Adams.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to the vast majority of home games from about 84 onwards till I moved here in 98.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to a few away games, but not many.

Was at the new stadium for the first time last season v Bournemouth.

Not that it's anyone's business, nor does going/not going to games enhances/negates someone's opinion, but I hope that answers your question.

dudu · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
I live in Ireland now but was brought up in Hayes Middlesex.

1st game at 10 years old, a 2-2 draw with City in 75 or 76.

Saw us relegated, all my "Spurs" mates jumped ship to other teams.
Got loads of abuse from local gooners.

Went to as many games as I could from about 79 onwards.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Was at Wembley for the semi and final in 91 and in Cardiff in 2008.

Was at Wembley when we lost to those cunts in the semi a couple of years later.
Behind the goal and I was screaming for someone to pick up that wanker Adams.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to the vast majority of home games from about 84 onwards till I moved here in 98.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to a few away games, but not many.

Was at the new stadium for the first time last season v Bournemouth.

Not that it's anyone's business, nor does going/not going to games enhances/negates someone's opinion, but I hope that answers your question.

Its nearly like after years of having the piss taken out of you for supporting a team that was actually proper shit that the current banter from supporters of teams who, for the most part, we have finished above in numerous seasons the last 10 years doesn't really affect you.

NewZealand_Spur · 14 Jul 2023

stevee said:
I live in Ireland now but was brought up in Hayes Middlesex.

1st game at 10 years old, a 2-2 draw with City in 75 or 76.

Saw us relegated, all my "Spurs" mates jumped ship to other teams.
Got loads of abuse from local gooners.

Went to as many games as I could from about 79 onwards.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Was at Wembley for the semi and final in 91 and in Cardiff in 2008.

Was at Wembley when we lost to those cunts in the semi a couple of years later.
Behind the goal and I was screaming for someone to pick up that wanker Adams.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to the vast majority of home games from about 84 onwards till I moved here in 98.
Got loads of abuse from gooners.

Went to a few away games, but not many.

Was at the new stadium for the first time last season v Bournemouth.

Not that it's anyone's business, nor does going/not going to games enhances/negates someone's opinion, but I hope that answers your question.

You say you follow Spurs AND have mates?

:ange-hmm:

Which one is it?

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