We hardly playing boring football. It only seems boring when we have a team that parks 11 men behind the ball to shut us out. We need to find a way to beat these teams more easily. But at the moment we are playing some of our best football when teams attack us and we counter attack. I'm not complaining, if the AVB gets us in top 4 I will be very chuffed.
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Glory vs. winning
- Thread starter Erik_Edman
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sir bills quote means shit now i'm afraid... I 've been going to spurs since the late 60's & even with that quote ringing in every fans ears there been some absolute fucking shite wearing the shirt & some absolute dross been played in the name of thfc in that time!.. fucking give it a rest, you don't now how good you've got it.. 4th in the best league in the world with a young manager with a squad at last capable of challenging the best in all competitions... give him a chance.
I love the "Tottenham way".. i.e attacking flowing football but i'm more than happy now after 45 odd years of mostly being also rans winning shit or less than shit to bore the fucking pants of everybody for a season or 2 if it means winning trophies.. it never hurt the filth down the road did it!!.. a whole generation of success started with the man in a raincoat boring & strangling the life out of everyone.
glory comes at a price... i'll pay that cost right now.
Seeing as how Blachflower's grandson is on the board and seems strongly support AVB, I'm not going to stress out too much about the quotation.
Also, it isn't like we are trying to play non attacking football. Teams have to set 10 men behind the ball to stop us. Even Wenger had 6 defenders on against us at the end of that game. For that reason, I don't think we are separating ourselves from the club's identity.
Instead, it is just a matter of the fact we aren't clicking yet. This shouldn't be surprising considering Soldado, Townsend, Eriksen, Paulinho, Holtby, Lamela, Rose, and Chadli have all been with the first team for less than a year. We all knew it was going to take time to click and yet we're still getting results. That is a good thing.
Also, it isn't like we are trying to play non attacking football. Teams have to set 10 men behind the ball to stop us. Even Wenger had 6 defenders on against us at the end of that game. For that reason, I don't think we are separating ourselves from the club's identity.
Instead, it is just a matter of the fact we aren't clicking yet. This shouldn't be surprising considering Soldado, Townsend, Eriksen, Paulinho, Holtby, Lamela, Rose, and Chadli have all been with the first team for less than a year. We all knew it was going to take time to click and yet we're still getting results. That is a good thing.
I do like this take and I really hope you're right.
Yeah but none of those tactics are unique to AVB. That's how plenty of top teams play or have played over the years, and Hull playing 5 at the back wouldn't nullify them and shouldn't be nullifying us. The problem in my eyes is that we don't do it right. The main issue being specifically the quality of our passing and movement.
What happens is that the man receiving the ball usually has to take a touch (or two), often not a good touch, then looks up to find an option, doesn't see anything so he rolls it backwards or sideways just to keep possession and hands over responsibility to someone else, then stands around waiting for something to happen.
Ideally, the man receiving the ball already knows what his next move is before the ball has even reached his feet, then his first touch is perfect so he either controls it and creates a bit of space for himself, or he instantly releases it for a runner who is already moving into a space in front, and then he moves into another space so making himself available to receive the next pass. If we have this kind of quick passing and movement then we would stretch the opposition defence and make them lose their formation. Playing the high line and making the pitch compact is fine, but then within that compacted area you have to use every blade of grass (including all the wide areas) as a highly coordinated unit and force mistakes from the opposition. And that is what takes time to create and perfect, and it maybe that we still need to make further alterations to the squad before we reach that point.
And equally as important is getting back behind the ball when possession is lost, which I also think we don't always do well enough.
If this is the case, then can't you make the argument that we should maybe tweak/loosen our tactics a little to suit the players we have until everyone on the right page and ready to play the system?
How many times since AVB took over can you say "we played really good attacking football today"?
Look how excited people got when we put a couple of moves together against a shit Norwich.
And for the record Hull had plenty of possession yesterday especially in the first half and had us parking the bus at one stage, so please don't rewrite history, especially when its so fresh in everyones minds.
There is an one issue here that is often neglected or not noticed; there aren't that many cavalier sides in the Premier League. For all the tactical changes of football through the past five years or so, football has become less entertaining.....or I should say, it's entertaining in a different way.
Remember 4-4-2 encouraged space, greater speed was required and goals were more abundant but currently football has become more about not losing (as many games between the top 4-6 have indicated).
Yes, AVB has a specific model, and that can appear to constrict our space, something he'll need to figure out, and I believe will. But the question of winning or glory - well surely the more you win, the greater your chances of winning gloriously become.
Remember 4-4-2 encouraged space, greater speed was required and goals were more abundant but currently football has become more about not losing (as many games between the top 4-6 have indicated).
Yes, AVB has a specific model, and that can appear to constrict our space, something he'll need to figure out, and I believe will. But the question of winning or glory - well surely the more you win, the greater your chances of winning gloriously become.
This is an excellent, excellent point, and I think to a great extent you can trace this back in the Premier League to the arrival of Mourinho who was a pioneer of the more pragmatic, cagey, one-striker system.
...and watching Chelsea bore their way to that CL win (denying us in the process) was as painful as fuck, and I didn't see any Chelsea fans offering to swap places!
Bottom line is, winning has become the be-all and end all of most sports nowadays... ESPECIALLY football!
...if anyone don't like it, then it's kinda become tough titties!
Of course, and I'm sure we will and in fact we have done already. AVB made plenty of small changes during that Hull game to change things up (going with the more attacking Dembele instead of Sandro, playing two CFs, swapping the wingers around, etc). So it shows that he is actively thinking about and trying other ideas. The match on Wednesday will be interesting cause it's essentially a replay and gives us a chance to make more substantial changes and compare the performances.
Added to that the influx of foreigners!! (only joking)
But my point being, is that originally 'Johnny Foreigner' came over and had to adapt to the hustle and bustle, the hurly-burly bollocks that the English game was famous for... (much to the amusement of the British Media and their obsession with pointing out EVERY foreign player who ever wears gloves in Winter!!
...then Wenger came and ruined everything... (for us) but hang on, that doesn't quite work for the wider game... he changed everything for the better didn't he? THE CUNT!!
...but dare I say that the English game has now adapted to a 'new' new type of football a 'stricter, more disciplined Continental' model... Mourinho being a big part of that.
Fuck me, you are such a bore.
Use the ignore button then happyclappy.
He's not the only one finding your "Redknapp was the best thing since sliced bread" agenda incredibly tiresome.
Too right I'm 'happyclappy'. What have I got to moan about?
I'm 26 years old, and I've never seen a Spurs squad like it.
According to people like yourself, we've been dogshit all season. And by playing dogshit, we're only 3 points off the top. Once everyone settles, we could be very exciting.
Boo fucking Hoo. What a fucking crisis.
Bring back Christian Gross. Those were the days.
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My Dad is certain that the quote is taken far more literally than was intended. Of course he wanted to win, he was fiercely ambitious.
It's important to note that the quote is actually from his newspaper column published in 1972, not during his playing career when the scrutiny of saying something like this would be immediate if the principal ever slipped. I would imagine it probably coincided with him having had to watch a team like Hull make no attempt to win a football match like yesterday, rather than a Spurs game........
It of course has sat well with us fans for the last 40 years as we've been able to use it as an romantic explanation for why we've been so inconsistent. We are in no way at a point where we are the polar opposite of the idea though, I'm still fully confident that we maintain our integrity as a team that tries to win games.......it's the fact that 90% of the other teams in the league have abandoned theirs when they visit White Hart Lane that's causing us issues.
To tackle the original question specifically. We have to remember the context of that quote. At the time we were the best team in the country, winning trophies and were playing exceptional football to boot. Same could be said for the Woolwich side of the late 90s/early 00s. Or some recent United teams. All playing good football because, quite simply, they were the best team. Therefore it was very easy for Nicholson/Blanchflower to wax lyrical about how great they were.
Because we've not seen sustained success since that era, then those quotes have become canonised. Throughout the years of dross we clung to them as if to say, "well we don't care that we're not winning because we'd prefer to play fancy football." This was quite damaging in the late 80s/early-mid 90s because, for all the skill and flair of Ginola, Klinsmann, Hoddle, Dominguez even, every side knew we were a soft touch and could be got at. I think even Redknapp admitted as much when he took over.
Whilst I'll never deny it is romantic, we are certainly not the only club in the country that believes exciting attacking football is part of its DNA. I don't want us to become dull 1-0 merchants who revel in that - but that's not what's happening here.
AVB's sides don't contain journeyman cloggers who break up play and try to score of long balls and set pieces. We have some very talented footballers at the club, players that he was involved in recruiting. A quick look at the chances created stats show you that we are an attacking side. If anything, I think we could stand to be a bit more direct when the game is tight. Get that first goal and then watch the opposition have to open up against so THEN we can play the pretty stuff.
However, I remember some of the games under Redknapp when we'd come flying out of the traps at the start, perhaps even go a goal up, but then we could never close out the game and end up dropping points. Now we kind of have the reverse. We look to control the game early on, conserve energy, let the ball do the work and tire our the opposition. Then we're the ones grabbing the late winners.
We should never and will never celebrate playing boring football. I've been quite vocal about how I believe the shit atmosphere these days is down to too much emphasis on winning and not enough on just enjoying being at the game, so it might be hypocritical to now say i don't care how we play so long as we win.
And yes, perhaps AVB needs to look at how he sets the side out at the start of the game to both help us score more goals and make the experience of watching Spurs more enjoyable for the fans. But anyone with a reasonable mind can see that it's going to take a little time for us to reach our full potential.
Woolwich pipped us to 4th last year by somehow grinding out a load of jammy wins by pure effort and belief. Wouldn't it be lovely to do the same to them just this once?
Because we've not seen sustained success since that era, then those quotes have become canonised. Throughout the years of dross we clung to them as if to say, "well we don't care that we're not winning because we'd prefer to play fancy football." This was quite damaging in the late 80s/early-mid 90s because, for all the skill and flair of Ginola, Klinsmann, Hoddle, Dominguez even, every side knew we were a soft touch and could be got at. I think even Redknapp admitted as much when he took over.
Whilst I'll never deny it is romantic, we are certainly not the only club in the country that believes exciting attacking football is part of its DNA. I don't want us to become dull 1-0 merchants who revel in that - but that's not what's happening here.
AVB's sides don't contain journeyman cloggers who break up play and try to score of long balls and set pieces. We have some very talented footballers at the club, players that he was involved in recruiting. A quick look at the chances created stats show you that we are an attacking side. If anything, I think we could stand to be a bit more direct when the game is tight. Get that first goal and then watch the opposition have to open up against so THEN we can play the pretty stuff.
However, I remember some of the games under Redknapp when we'd come flying out of the traps at the start, perhaps even go a goal up, but then we could never close out the game and end up dropping points. Now we kind of have the reverse. We look to control the game early on, conserve energy, let the ball do the work and tire our the opposition. Then we're the ones grabbing the late winners.
We should never and will never celebrate playing boring football. I've been quite vocal about how I believe the shit atmosphere these days is down to too much emphasis on winning and not enough on just enjoying being at the game, so it might be hypocritical to now say i don't care how we play so long as we win.
And yes, perhaps AVB needs to look at how he sets the side out at the start of the game to both help us score more goals and make the experience of watching Spurs more enjoyable for the fans. But anyone with a reasonable mind can see that it's going to take a little time for us to reach our full potential.
Woolwich pipped us to 4th last year by somehow grinding out a load of jammy wins by pure effort and belief. Wouldn't it be lovely to do the same to them just this once?