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The 1882 movement was referenced twice in this afternoon's Football 365 mailbox
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AVB on home support
- Thread starter SpursLegend
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I may not quite be 80 but I bet I can be noisier than a 20 year old .... ask the people who seat near me, who wished they bought ear plugs!!
Interesting ... Everton have the widest pitch.
Boy, it's gonna be a crazy fun match...
Spurs Fans And Andre Villas-Boas
Seven new signings that need time to gel and the loss of last season's star player, yet Spurs still lie in fourth and only three points off top spot. What do those self-entitled fans at White Hart Lane expect?
Well, more goals is one thing after a third win of the season courtesy of a Roberto Soldado penalty, while more chances wouldn't go amiss as Spurs continue to make hard work of carving out clear-cut opportunities.
While Andre Villas-Boas had a point with his spicy remarks after Sunday's victory, the supporters' concerns are as legitimate as the frustration is palpable. Ultimately, they are there to be entertained, and 34 home goals in the top flight during Villas-Boas' reign leaves much to be desired.
Of course, it was silly for fans to boo at half-time in the third match of last season - a 1-1 draw with Norwich - and equally they should show patience as the team find their rhythm to harmonise results with better performances. However, that only seven teams have scored fewer home goals in the Premier League since the start of 2012/13, most of them strugglers - Southampton, Newcastle, Villa, Fulham, Stoke, Norwich and Sunderland - is a cause for concern. There is nothing wrong with wanting to win and win in style.
Perhaps that would be a more achievable aim if Villas-Boas could work out how to utilise Christian Eriksen, who has been on the bench in the last two matches, and £26million summer signing Erik Lamela. Two months into the Argentine's spell at Spurs, he is yet to start a Premier League fixture. If a home match against Hull isn't the perfect opportunity, then one wonders when his chance will come.
F365
Seven new signings that need time to gel and the loss of last season's star player, yet Spurs still lie in fourth and only three points off top spot. What do those self-entitled fans at White Hart Lane expect?
Well, more goals is one thing after a third win of the season courtesy of a Roberto Soldado penalty, while more chances wouldn't go amiss as Spurs continue to make hard work of carving out clear-cut opportunities.
While Andre Villas-Boas had a point with his spicy remarks after Sunday's victory, the supporters' concerns are as legitimate as the frustration is palpable. Ultimately, they are there to be entertained, and 34 home goals in the top flight during Villas-Boas' reign leaves much to be desired.
Of course, it was silly for fans to boo at half-time in the third match of last season - a 1-1 draw with Norwich - and equally they should show patience as the team find their rhythm to harmonise results with better performances. However, that only seven teams have scored fewer home goals in the Premier League since the start of 2012/13, most of them strugglers - Southampton, Newcastle, Villa, Fulham, Stoke, Norwich and Sunderland - is a cause for concern. There is nothing wrong with wanting to win and win in style.
Perhaps that would be a more achievable aim if Villas-Boas could work out how to utilise Christian Eriksen, who has been on the bench in the last two matches, and £26million summer signing Erik Lamela. Two months into the Argentine's spell at Spurs, he is yet to start a Premier League fixture. If a home match against Hull isn't the perfect opportunity, then one wonders when his chance will come.
F365
An away game with a wide pitch. This seems to be what the players seem to thrive on these days. The threat from Baines and Coleman is going to be insane though. Hoping against hope that Rose will be fit for this, or we'll be playing this lopsided formation with only one wing giving any semblance of width. Naughton at LB is a disaster (although I do like him as our RB backup), and Vertonghen at LB isn't much better. People seem to love the thought of him at LB, but his width option comes only a fraction of what someone like Rose can provide with his crossing and pace. Plus, we need Vert at CB!
Yup I'm sure our style of play will be completely different.
Disappointing at home yet mostly still winning, plus infinitely better away than we've ever been in the premier league at least.
It's like he WANTS to be sacked!
Dembele says so - and he's more famous than you.
Obviously we can argue that the same pitch dimensions have seen great fluid play over the years - but with AVB's particular style of play, and the many non-british players we now have perhaps also not liking the narrow pitch, it could be a factor.
Grasping at straws a bit I suppose, but we really have been unentertaining at home for a few years now - even under Redknapp most 1st halfs were dire - didn't get going until 2nd halfs
To be fair, we can't use "famous" as a quantifier of brains. The recent tweets of Alan Sugar during gamedays lump him almost in the same category as Piers Morgan. Two famous people. Two massive dickheads
That is not to say that Dembele is one. I for one thing he's got a decent point. We do need a better pitch, and a better stadium. This is what we're working on anyway and 2017 cannot come soon enough!This I wholeheartedly agree with. People remember only the good parts of us playing under Redknapp. All the "I can't point my finger on what went wrong" seems to have been oblivated from people's memories.
Matter of opinion
The decent point they raise is that while we have "Seven new signings that need time to gel and the loss of last season's star player, yet Spurs still lie in fourth and only three points off top spot", we have taken 9pts from three penalties in 1-0 wins, two over championship sides which we struggled to break down.
Cardiff took 93 minutes.
Last year, we bemoaned a lack of luck. This year, we've had it in abundance.
I do not believe this squad is being used to its full potential, or that AVBs management is the sole reason we are in a good position in the table. We have been lucky.
It goes both ways. Cant whine about being unlucky, and then dismiss soft penalties that gave us 6pts when we had no actual answer.
Townsend took a dive for one of our wins, and that handball against Hull is 90% not given....here is AVBs take on it:
"It's obviously harsh, the ball is stopped from going forward because it hits Elmohamady's hand but it comes off his foot so it's difficult,"
"The referee probably could have not given it but he decided to give it. The ball hits him quite strongly so it stops the ball from going forward in the cross.
"It's a position where sometimes you see it given, sometimes you don't. (Steve) Bruce will be absolutely devastated by the decision."
Those wins had nothing to do with AVBs tactics and could have easily ended 0-0. Wonder what people would say then?
It even came down to people denying the word "urgency" existed last year, in order to defend AVB. I dont know what people are seeing that pleases them, other than a scoreline.
For me, when our luck runs out, we still wont have an answer, and that worries me.
Chadli dropped for Lennon on the left. Eriksen, Dembele and Siggy behind Holtby. Lamela nowhere to be seen.
Vlad making runs into the oppo box with Dawson left to cover, while the AM waits on the halfway line.
Soldado still isolated.
No one crossing the ball.
Hudd sold. Looked the most composed player on the pitch. BAE loaned out, so our best defender forced to play out of position.
But dont mention it
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Wear bandanas over your mouth. Wear medical masks. Wear ski masks
or do this-
half the fun in life is getting one past the authorities.
What are you trying to achieve/contribute?
I go back to this again. even rhough i agree the style is still missing a bit, We've created a huge amount of chances this season (even disregarding townsends many pot shots. Paulinho has squandered plenty, as have a few of the others.
You mention Cardiff taking 93 mins. That was 93 mins of one way traffic where their keeper played a blinder. Hardly the manager's fault. What I do credit him and the players is refusing to give up till the last and finding a way to win the Game.
Lets not forget here, city with their much better first 11 lost at Cardiff because they've forgotten that titles are won by your defence being solid.
Look I'm not saying AVB is infallible. I questioned plenty of his decisions. But im humble enough to know that beyond what i see in the pitch i have zero real idea on what goes into the decisions he makes (training, fitness, player attitudes etc.) I just can't believe we've finally got a solid side that rarely chokes anymore, is 3 points off top after 9 games and suddenly it's 'oh but we're not playing pretty enough football'
Try to relax and enjoy life instead of picking holes and always waiting to pounce with the 'I told you so's'
You're clutching to straws, sammyspurs, and desperately looking for a whipping boy to pin most of our problems on. AVB seems to be the one you've picked. Fair enough. But let us take a look at WHY the tactics are like that.
1) Everyone seems to think that we are trying to bed in 7 players. Bull shit. Rose and Townsend didn't play with the majority of our squad as they were away on loan. Kaboul was out all season and never trained with any of the new guys either, and that includes defense. This is 10 players that are in effect "new", in addition to our long term injured players who're struggling to gain full fitness like Sandro and Lennon.
2) Have you ever been in a different country for a couple of years, in a place where you don't know the language? It is a massive culture shock and some people cope with things better than others. Sometimes, adrenaline and a sense of adventure boosts a person's performances initially (Holtby in his first two games, followed by the blip). Every major player for us has had this problem. People have forgotten how much stick Modric got. He's had a terrible few months before he learnt to adapt. He was our record signing too. A signing is made for impact over a period of 4-5 years, not 2-3 months.
3) The off the pitch behaviour. Tweets, facebook and tabloids. This play a major role in effecting the mindset of a player and the team. Vlad gets so much love for his "amazing tekkers" and that last ditch tackle, but they forget to mention that he was the main culprit in playing players onside as he struggled to get used to the high line. His passing out wide was terrible, but he still got rave reviews. Lamela had a mediocre game, but he made some excellent passes to Defoe and Eriksen, hoping for a good one two, ran into space. Nothing came in. He looks to the press, and they all thrash talk about how he is a failure. The spoilt attitude of the fans is reeking in the past few months for us. Players then start playing flashy stuff instead of team based stuff, and the whole team suffers.
4) The attitude of the crowd at the games. Sorry, but this is beyond shameful. The crowd doesn't seem to understand there is a cause-effect system from the crowd. The job of the crowd is to be the 12th man. To boost our players when they feel a little down. Not to boo. If you're going to watch games to get entertained and going to boo otherwise, please stay at home and give your season ticket to the 20k+ fans who're struggling for a ticket. You're free to boo from your couch. No one will give a damn. A protest is not supposed to happen during a match.
What we remind me of right now is the despicable Chelsea fans that sang against Rafa Benitez when he was there every single game. You could tell from the body language of the players that they hated playing at the bridge and would rather play away. That is what we are going towards.
The tactics will take time to perfect. We took a few months to work out our high line and conceding in the final 10 mins of the game. We've got that nailed down pretty much now. We're working towards our attacking options and working on our attack. We're infact in an injury "Crisis", but our depth has pulled us out of the water. Rose, Kaboul, Capoue, Lennon and Chadli for a while, Sandro's lack of match fitness. In other years, we'd have capitulated with so many injuries. But we're still going incredibly strong in both the league and Europa and also the cup.
The only thing I'll agree with you on is that it was a mistake to loan out Benny without an adept LB backup. The rest, grow something called patience. The world isn't a game of fifa for you to make 10 changes and watch them gel into an amazing machine of dominance.
1) Everyone seems to think that we are trying to bed in 7 players. Bull shit. Rose and Townsend didn't play with the majority of our squad as they were away on loan. Kaboul was out all season and never trained with any of the new guys either, and that includes defense. This is 10 players that are in effect "new", in addition to our long term injured players who're struggling to gain full fitness like Sandro and Lennon.
2) Have you ever been in a different country for a couple of years, in a place where you don't know the language? It is a massive culture shock and some people cope with things better than others. Sometimes, adrenaline and a sense of adventure boosts a person's performances initially (Holtby in his first two games, followed by the blip). Every major player for us has had this problem. People have forgotten how much stick Modric got. He's had a terrible few months before he learnt to adapt. He was our record signing too. A signing is made for impact over a period of 4-5 years, not 2-3 months.
3) The off the pitch behaviour. Tweets, facebook and tabloids. This play a major role in effecting the mindset of a player and the team. Vlad gets so much love for his "amazing tekkers" and that last ditch tackle, but they forget to mention that he was the main culprit in playing players onside as he struggled to get used to the high line. His passing out wide was terrible, but he still got rave reviews. Lamela had a mediocre game, but he made some excellent passes to Defoe and Eriksen, hoping for a good one two, ran into space. Nothing came in. He looks to the press, and they all thrash talk about how he is a failure. The spoilt attitude of the fans is reeking in the past few months for us. Players then start playing flashy stuff instead of team based stuff, and the whole team suffers.
4) The attitude of the crowd at the games. Sorry, but this is beyond shameful. The crowd doesn't seem to understand there is a cause-effect system from the crowd. The job of the crowd is to be the 12th man. To boost our players when they feel a little down. Not to boo. If you're going to watch games to get entertained and going to boo otherwise, please stay at home and give your season ticket to the 20k+ fans who're struggling for a ticket. You're free to boo from your couch. No one will give a damn. A protest is not supposed to happen during a match.
What we remind me of right now is the despicable Chelsea fans that sang against Rafa Benitez when he was there every single game. You could tell from the body language of the players that they hated playing at the bridge and would rather play away. That is what we are going towards.
The tactics will take time to perfect. We took a few months to work out our high line and conceding in the final 10 mins of the game. We've got that nailed down pretty much now. We're working towards our attacking options and working on our attack. We're infact in an injury "Crisis", but our depth has pulled us out of the water. Rose, Kaboul, Capoue, Lennon and Chadli for a while, Sandro's lack of match fitness. In other years, we'd have capitulated with so many injuries. But we're still going incredibly strong in both the league and Europa and also the cup.
The only thing I'll agree with you on is that it was a mistake to loan out Benny without an adept LB backup. The rest, grow something called patience. The world isn't a game of fifa for you to make 10 changes and watch them gel into an amazing machine of dominance.
During our champions league season we had the following results:
2-1 vs Birmingham (needed a Lennon goal in the 5th minute of ET)
0-1 vs Stoke
0-1 vs Wolves
0-0 vs Hull
0-0 vs Villa
1-0 vs Bolton (needed a famous Huddlestone missile)
Even in our best season in recent memory we had problems breaking teams down that parked the bus against us at home.
AVB shouldn't be immune to criticism but the criticism should be leveled with historical accuracy and understanding of the current situation. We've often struggled at home in the past without AVB.
Also, out of the 8 attacking positions (counting the fullbacks) there are nine players that weren't with the club in January that are now contributors and starters (Townsend, Soldado, Rose, Capoue, Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen, Holtby, and Paulinho). Furthermore, last year's first choice RW (Lennon) has been fit for only 2 games and our best attacking player was sold.
These guys have barely played together at all and are obviously still adjusting to each other and to the club. No club looks more different from last year to this year than us.
On the other hand, the back 5 (including GK) have been able to maintain continuity in 4 of the 5 positions (Lloris, Dawson, Walker, and Vertonghen). With that continuity it has led to 6 premier league clean sheets and 12 clean sheets total with only one bad performance. It must be mentioned that at the beginning of last season the defense was much maligned for giving up late goals. That was eventually solved.
Overall, the improvement of our defense throughout the course of last season and into this season shows the value of continuity and what AVB has the ability to do with time and ability to implement what he is trying to do. It stands to reason that the attack should see similar improvement this season.
2-1 vs Birmingham (needed a Lennon goal in the 5th minute of ET)
0-1 vs Stoke
0-1 vs Wolves
0-0 vs Hull
0-0 vs Villa
1-0 vs Bolton (needed a famous Huddlestone missile)
Even in our best season in recent memory we had problems breaking teams down that parked the bus against us at home.
AVB shouldn't be immune to criticism but the criticism should be leveled with historical accuracy and understanding of the current situation. We've often struggled at home in the past without AVB.
Also, out of the 8 attacking positions (counting the fullbacks) there are nine players that weren't with the club in January that are now contributors and starters (Townsend, Soldado, Rose, Capoue, Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen, Holtby, and Paulinho). Furthermore, last year's first choice RW (Lennon) has been fit for only 2 games and our best attacking player was sold.
These guys have barely played together at all and are obviously still adjusting to each other and to the club. No club looks more different from last year to this year than us.
On the other hand, the back 5 (including GK) have been able to maintain continuity in 4 of the 5 positions (Lloris, Dawson, Walker, and Vertonghen). With that continuity it has led to 6 premier league clean sheets and 12 clean sheets total with only one bad performance. It must be mentioned that at the beginning of last season the defense was much maligned for giving up late goals. That was eventually solved.
Overall, the improvement of our defense throughout the course of last season and into this season shows the value of continuity and what AVB has the ability to do with time and ability to implement what he is trying to do. It stands to reason that the attack should see similar improvement this season.
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Kick off is midday. That's plenty of time ;-)