Manager Ange Postecoglou

[VonnegutBusy]

How is it that Woolwich/City are able to be such an attacking threat while essentially playing CBs at full back most of the time? (White/Tomiyasu/Kiwior/Ake/Gvardiol/Akanji)

Have we moved beyond the attacking fullback model that has dominated the last era of football?

It now seems the added solidity and set piece threat is worth more.

You could accept being a bit more open if Porro/Udogie were constantly carving up the opposition and getting high G/As but it hasn't really happened.

I look at that Woolwich team and on paper there is nothing that special in an attacking sense outside of Saka. Are Trossard and Havertz better than what we have? If so, it's marginal.
Odegaard is often ineffective and then you have two defensive-minded players in rapist and Rice.
The real difference is solidity with Rice, White, Saliba and Gabriel in particular.

We also see Real Madrid getting success this way.

 

[nicoclaesen]

You're just quoting league position in isolation there to claim it as a decent season though.

Being in 5th come the end of the season doesn't make those games against West Ham, Wolves, and Fulham, acceptable. If anything it makes them even more infuriating, those are winnable games, and I don't care what anyone says about how strong PL is or taking nothing for granted, the players should have been going into those games saying "we're winning this".

We could have lost those games but played really well, dominated and been genuinely unlucky, and the outlook would have been much brighter. We didn't, we were poor in all and looked bereft of ideas, there have been no green shoots to provide optimism for a good while now.

Somebody in world football could have navigated those 5 games in particular and got more than one point. I don't have to provide a name to state that the notion that nobody on the planet could have done better this season is an insane claim.

What positive result have we achieved this season that you look at and think, only Ange could have overseen this?

I like the guy, I really do, I was all aboard his train not just in the first 10 games, but the games immediately after that (Wolves aside where I felt his selection was cowardly the moment I saw it) where I thought we performed really well under difficult circumstances. But I would never have predicted in January what was about to unfold.

I'd love for him to walk the walk as well as he talks the talk, but the evidence in his favour is diminishing with each passing game.

Remember back at the beginning of the season where commentators were literally purring over some of our passages of play? Feels like a good while since I've heard anything like that.

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I’m not happy about yesterday,Chelsea at home and not being able to beat West Ham but I’m taking the league position as a success considering where we were this time last season and losing Kane. If it’s like this next season then I’d be well pissed of with it. I’m being realistic and willing to be patient to see where we go next season.

 

[Richard Arlison]

How is it that Woolwich/City are able to be such an attacking threat while essentially playing CBs at full back most of the time? (White/Tomiyasu/Kiwior/Ake/Gvardiol/Akanji)

Have we moved beyond the attacking fullback model that has dominated the last era of football?

It now seems the added solidity and set piece threat is worth more.

You could accept being a bit more open if Porro/Udogie were constantly carving up the opposition and getting high G/As but it hasn't really happened.

I look at that Woolwich team and on paper there is nothing that special in an attacking sense outside of Saka. Are Trossard and Havertz better than what we have? If so, it's marginal.
Odegaard is often ineffective and then you have two defensive-minded players in rapist and Rice.
The real difference is solidity with Rice, White, Saliba and Gabriel in particular.

We also see Real Madrid getting success this way.

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There’s only one way to win football games and that’s City and Pep way? (Lego does it because he’s a cheap mimic with refs helping him)

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

This is a bit dramatic and everyone seems to be accepting it as fact.

We were good against Forest

Good for most of the game against Palace

Great second half against Brentford

It’s just that everywhere we go there is the stench of negativity from the past just waiting to sneak into the fanbase.

Changing the culture and installing real hope into this club is an almost impossible task

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Started ok against Forest, lost control completely and should have been 2-1 behind at half time. A good spell for 30 minutes 2nd half won us the game. Palace first half poor again a good 20 minute spell 2nd half, Brentford the same. They really werent great performances and against pretty poor sides. You change the culture and atmosphere around a club by winning games and being hard to beat. This has nothing to do with the past its more about next season.

 

[Herclueless]

It's obvious this season was getting the players to not be afraid to play a certain way. They've been drilled to playing fucking negative football for years and for some of them never touched Prem football before.

They'll be driven tactically in the summer, now the base is there. You can trace this back with every single Ange team and how much the second seasons of his teams are alot better tactically and defensively. But also alot more comfortable

But as usual, recruitment needs to be key.

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I really, really hope this ends up being so.

I just have little optimism for it right now, we seem to be on one of our familiar downward spirals.

People are clamouring for a striker to make this system work. We aren't wasting chances, we're not creating them! A serious striker in this team would be twiddling his thumbs and losing his mind!

So I guess Ange needs a top creative midfielder to make it work? Doesn't every bloody team? Pep's a chequebook manager when he needs that, Conte is a fraud when he needs that...

I don't think asking for better from what Ange has at his disposal right now is exactly asking him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

 

[nicoclaesen]

How is it that Woolwich/City are able to be such an attacking threat while essentially playing CBs at full back most of the time? (White/Tomiyasu/Kiwior/Ake/Gvardiol/Akanji)

Have we moved beyond the attacking fullback model that has dominated the last era of football?

It now seems the added solidity and set piece threat is worth more.

You could accept being a bit more open if Porro/Udogie were constantly carving up the opposition and getting high G/As but it hasn't really happened.

I look at that Woolwich team and on paper there is nothing that special in an attacking sense outside of Saka. Are Trossard and Havertz better than what we have? If so, it's marginal.
Odegaard is often ineffective and then you have two defensive-minded players in rapist and Rice.
The real difference is solidity with Rice, White, Saliba and Gabriel in particular.

We also see Real Madrid getting success this way.

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Odegaard is often ineffective???? He’s fucking brilliant and that hurts to type that.

 

[Yiddy]

Who could have come in to Tottenham last summer with how toxic it was,lose the best striker we’ve had and make us any better than 4th or 5th?. There are many managers that could have come in and got us exactly the same position but there is no chance anybody could have got us challenging the top three for 38 games.

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I don't know I feel like conte with the potential back 5 we have now is a completely different animal. Having to constantly play with Doherty dier sanchez and Davies Royal at the back is just fucking stupidity. Now we have an attacking coach and we have a potential solid back 5 but we sold our star attacker. This club just never ceases to shoot itself in the foot.

 

[Herclueless]

I’m not happy about yesterday,Chelsea at home and not being able to beat West Ham but I’m taking the league position as a success considering where we were this time last season and losing Kane. If it’s like this next season then I’d be well pissed of with it. I’m being realistic and willing to be patient to see where we go next season.

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I'm certainly not demanding his head...

But I'm expecting the worst from next season unless we see some dramatic improvement over the remaining games.

 

[spPadre24]

I totally agree with everything you said, except Perisic. Ivan got 14 assists that season, he wasn't the issue.

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Perisic delivery is world class, the guy delivers in front of the player giving them little choice but to have a go

 

[Starks]

Started ok against Forest, lost control completely and should have been 2-1 behind at half time. A good spell for 30 minutes 2nd half won us the game. Palace first half poor again a good 20 minute spell 2nd half, Brentford the same. They really werent great performances and against pretty poor sides. You change the culture and atmosphere around a club by winning games and being hard to beat. This has nothing to do with the past its more about next season.

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We should have been 2-0 up before Forest even had a chance though...

What's constitutes a good performance against teams who have no intention of playing football against us and want to keep 9 men behind the ball?

Not a single game involving a low block team is exciting. Not one. So the important thing is you win. And we mostly do against these low blocks teams.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Started ok against Forest, lost control completely and should have been 2-1 behind at half time. A good spell for 30 minutes 2nd half won us the game. Palace first half poor again a good 20 minute spell 2nd half, Brentford the same. They really werent great performances and against pretty poor sides. You change the culture and atmosphere around a club by winning games and being hard to beat. This has nothing to do with the past its more about next season.

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That’s an overly negative way of looking at those games

 

[Starks]

I really, really hope this ends up being so.

I just have little optimism for it right now, we seem to be on one of our familiar downward spirals.

People are clamouring for a striker to make this system work. We aren't wasting chances, we're not creating them! A serious striker in this team would be twiddling his thumbs and losing his mind!

So I guess Ange needs a top creative midfielder to make it work? Doesn't every bloody team? Pep's a chequebook manager when he needs that, Conte is a fraud when he needs that...

I don't think asking for better from what Ange has at his disposal right now is exactly asking him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

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History tells us it should be so.

Anges teams always do better in the second season. Always. Every single club he's managed.

First season is to nail down the mentality of how he wants the team to play. Almost all focus on that because it's the crux.

Second season, it should be pretty much engrained and second nature. But Ange will know from what he's seen over 12 months who's passed the test and will know exactly what needs upgrading. And that's when we can start to iron it all out tactically.

Again if we're having this conversation next year. Then perhaps it isn't going to work out.

 

[simon j]

While I’m angry at ange for most of yesterday…
We can’t have players lying on the floor looking for penalties. We had kulu on the floor amd Maddison.
Maddison was soft as shite and looking for one.
Kulu was too honest and tried to stay up

 

[Richard Arlison]

We should have been 2-0 up before Forest even had a chance though...

What's constitutes a good performance against teams who have no intention of playing football against us and want to keep 9 men behind the ball?

Not a single game involving a low block team is exciting. Not one. So the important thing is you win. And we mostly do against these low blocks teams.

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You are 100% correct but we’ve lost games now so everything is bad.

And tbh I can’t be fucked to argue it. We are losing games and it’s shit. It’s another dead end season with fans forever being asked to pay for more promises a season where we’ve been Spurs fans have been treated with zero respect by the PGMOL and the premier league

 

[Herclueless]

History tells us it should be so.

Anges teams always do better in the second season. Always. Every single club he's managed.

First season is to nail down the mentality of how he wants the team to play. Almost all focus on that because it's the crux.

Second season, it should be pretty much engrained and second nature. But Ange will know from what he's seen over 12 months who's passed the test and will know exactly what needs upgrading. And that's when we can start to iron it all out tactically.

Again if we're having this conversation next year. Then perhaps it isn't going to work out.

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[Sir Archibald Crooks]

That’s an overly negative way of looking at those games

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I just thought they were bog standard wins against mediocre opposition. The sort of games we win over the years even when we're not very good. Really dont think you can take much from them in terms of long term improvement but think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Herclueless]

We should have been 2-0 up before Forest even had a chance though...

What's constitutes a good performance against teams who have no intention of playing football against us and want to keep 9 men behind the ball?

Not a single game involving a low block team is exciting. Not one. So the important thing is you win. And we mostly do against these low blocks teams.

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For me you go at them heard and fast from the off, get an early goal and force them to rip up their plan before the game settles into a pattern.

Then as they abandon all out defence and have to go for an equaliser, pick them off with a second. Then go for the kill as they become demoralised.

That's the ideal for me.

 

[Herclueless]

I just thought they were bog standard wins against mediocre opposition. The sort of games we win over the years even when we're not very good. Really dont think you can take much from them in terms of long term improvement but think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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For me they have been reminiscent of the Tim Sherwood reign, beating the teams you should beat by way of better personnel, nothing to do with tactics, coaching, or gameplan.

And often making harder work of it than you'd like.

 

[Starks]

For me you go at them heard and fast from the off, get an early goal and force them to rip up their plan before the game settles into a pattern.

Then as they abandon all out defence and have to go for an equaliser, pick them off with a second. Then go for the kill as they become demoralised.

That's the ideal for me.

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That's the ideal.

But we scored early against Forest and West Ham and their game plans never changed..

Most teams don't abandon all out defence against us. They just rely on the odd chance they do get when one of our attackers loses the ball due to not being good enough on it.

These teams know they can mark Son out of a game. We aren't going to go wide and cross because Son isn't winning headers. And these opposing teams want us to play the ball to Sons feet, because they have the beating of him.

Until we've got a forward line that will strike fear into those low block teams. We're always going to get the 70% possession games where we will eventually win because we create enough, but it is never going to be pretty.

Man City games are ridiculously boring for this reason. Sprinkled with moments of magic because of how good their offence is.

Honestly, if we had say Eze - Solanke-Williams as our front three this season as an example, we'd have conceded less goals and scored more and probably won more too.

This is the next step for this squad. Finding a front three that fits.

 

[Deuterz]

That's the ideal.

But we scored early against Forest and West Ham and their game plans never changed..

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Lol yes they did. Forest equalised against us and then were dominant for large periods. They missed an open goal. For most of the first half they were actually the team in control.

Second half we re-asserted it but Forest low block? They had more xG than us. More clear cut opportunities.