The two blokes on sky sports this morning were actually taking the correct narrative that’s it’s bloody hard to win things in England than the other places he’s been but he should be given the chance to. Was quite surprised they didn’t try and double down on any negativity.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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The two blokes on sky sports this morning were actually taking the correct narrative that’s it’s bloody hard to win things in England than the other places he’s been but he should be given the chance to. Was quite surprised they didn’t try and double down on any negativity.
What's the answer then? Persevere with this? Because it's not working. It worked for the first ten games. And invariably works against the really shit teams. But anyone else and it's all substance no result.
You are very quick to tell us we are all wrong, but why are we wrong? Should we accept the reality we are in?
Those first ten were electric. Are you now conceding that it was simply a new manager bounce? Because if so that means that the subsequent 34 leagues games are the norm. Something many Ange apologists suggest isn't a relevant statistic to track.
Exactly, it's a mentality that protects folks.
Always predict the negative outcome so I can a) say I'm right when it happens and it makes me feel all warm inside or b) hold my hands up and say I am happy to be wrong when a positive thing happens.
If it was working why would we need to persevere?
It's not working though is it. But you want us to keep persevering. For how long?
Graveyard shift so they can claim to have a balanced coverage.
Don't have any doubts about what they will be saying in the next prime time slot.
He does
It’s just that our forwards are about as useful as a chocolate teapot!
It's not working yet no but the underlying numbers, the times when it has worked like some of the first 10 games, Newcastle at home, Villa away, both games against City (even if we lost 1)... and the things we are seeing on the actual football pitch this season suggest there is something worth persevering with.
Why do you want me to have an answer for you about how long to stick by it? We are all different here... You say I tell you that "we are all wrong" as if there is some hive mind that all agree that Ange ball will never work and we need a change. Who is this "we" that you are talking about?
I was actually talking to a completely individual person who pays good money to watch games, is frustrated with results but still sees the value in persevering over another manager change. How does that unique view sit within your delusional "we" consensus?
I doubt very much that, Southgate will be our next manager.
Ange will stay on unless there is a really bad slump, say the team doesn't win for weeks, other than that he will be kept on.
There has been criticism launched his way and rightly so, and it's down to him and the team to resolve those issues if possible.
This criticism is not just based on four games, it goes back to around the start of the new year, the team in general and ange have been poor and found wanting on many occasions.
For the good of the club we hope they find their way quickly.
Yeah of course that much is clear, I’m just saying the reality of replacing him is probably worse. The last two managerial hunts have been shit shows. The next one will be too. He hasn’t lost the stadium crowd yet, which let’s be fair is the one that will help decide his future, not people online. That’s miles off currently.
This thread is getting a bit like the Enic one was a year ago, we are just going around in circles having the same conversations now. All valid though.
It's always a risk appointment of a new manager, we don't know who might or might not be available.
The other issue is that, a change of manager would likely mean changing of players.
We have seen this season that the team has once again been left short, attack wise we are blunt, the midfield lacks creative spark and the defending isn't up to much.
I don't think any of us should expect much, I can see the team finishing between 8th-10th, the board need to be far more ambitious in the window next summer.
You're bang on there. I know Nuno was always teetering on the verge of the sack but the sheer visceral reaction to that Lucas sub ended his tenure there and then, I suspect fans who don't go to games didn't really get the atmosphere that evening but we all knew in the stadium that he was getting chopped the next day. I've still never experienced anything like it in my life. The certain knowledge the stadium crowd had essentially fired him on the spot.
It doesn't take long for it to happen though. The constant Ange Postecoglou chant has largely stopped. It comes and goes early on in games but it's not making a 90 minutes showing like it was last season. It seems like the crowd are ambivalent now as opposed to outright opposed to the guy but it's a slippery slope.
He still has time to recover, of course he does, but once the booing starts and Baldy feels the heat it's game over.
Yes and no - the players we have are better than the PPG we've been taking for quite some time. There is more there than we're seeing.
Newcastle at home, Villa away and City away were the absolute outliers in that back end of results. Nobody can rationally say we were not electric in those first ten games. We've been nothing like that in the subsequent 34 games, save a few stand-outs and beating relegation fodder. Whenever we come against a team that tries to actually stop us playing we struggle. Neither Newcastle not Villa tried to stop us and left huge gaps behind. City away Ange did something he's seldom done, he mixed it up and those last 10 minutes against City we were simply unplayable and they couldn't cope. You could argue that at 3-1 down we had nothing to lose but it was incredible and shows we can do it. My point is more that we've seen much less of the first ten games and more of the last 34, regardless of dominance. So my question to YOU directly is was it just a new manager bounce? Because the subsequent games are an indication of declining performance overall, with a PPG tally to match. Having lots of the ball, and failing to convert that to any sort of meaningful result because we have no clue on how to break a low block is not progress. It is exactly what we struggled with last year, just more teams are doing it now. It's on the manager and his coaching staff to learn how to get through that. So again, as evasive as you are to actually address direct questions, how much time do we persevere with it, in your opinion? How long before even you have had enough? How long can you keep doing the same thing, but expect different results?
Whilst I can only speak for myself, the collective "we" is a growing number of fans disgruntled with what we are seeing. You are no more wrong than I am - this is a discussion forum where we all have different views and opinions, and there clearly division in the fanbase. I'm just asking you a direct question that you don't want to answer. That's fine, you do you. But it's laughable that you are so dismissive of those that want things to change for the better or are so fed up with the awful run of form and results and you won't even elaborate on where your line is.
Again, this is a discussion forum where people are going to pick up on things other people say and respond. It's not an echo chamber for people to just exchange their own views. DM that person of WhatsApp them if you want to engage in solely positive discussion. Also I take HUGE exception to the inference about someone paying money going to games. I've been a season ticket holder, life circumstances and watching an entire season of Nuno/Conte was enough to ensure I couldn't justify £1300 for that shit. I go to as many games as I can, I give my time to watch every match and even spend hours of my life wasting engaging here with other fans. Someone going to games gets nothing but my admiration and respect, but it doesn't make them any more of a fan than I am, or worthy or an opinion more. It's not a stakeholder program, it's a consumer product. I could, however, argue that someone paying hundreds of pounds for this and still being happy could be considered more delusional than I.
This cycle of binning managers after 18 months HAS to change, I don't disagree. We do have to be patient, to a degree because we've had to ensure a reset. Not too dissimilar to Poch, really. Poch, like Ange, had to sack off so much shite. And in the end had us challenging to a level we'd not seen in decades, even if we did fall short. I have seen enough in Ange's football to suggest we could get there, but it mostly in that start, and then went backwards. We are stuck at the moment, waiting for it to click. For Maddison - so instrumental in those first games - the produce on that level. For Solanke - so unfortunate to get injured - to click with the system. For us to make the most of that dominance.
On the other hand, having shipped out so much shit, we are still playing most of the players that Ange utilised last year, with him reluctant to swap out his favourites. So again, I simply ask you, who asks all of us "delusional" fans that are fed up, how patient should we be? 5 games? 10 games? The season? I want to be proven wrong, so badly and want this club to succeed. We've suffered for so long, and have been mismanaged, from the board and recruitment more than anything else. This is where the impatience comes from. How much more should we suffer this specific chapter of it, if Ange cannot change the results?
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So when the exact same thing has happened 5, 10, 15 more times will you still be backing him, claiming we're dominating games, that it's only a matter of time before it clicks etc?
You will get to where the majority now are. Eventually you'll have that moment of clarity that this is AVB ball at best.
Most visceral hate I've ever seen from our fans was towards RSol (obviously).
But yeah that Man Utd game where we went down 3-0...poisonous. Knew Nuno was going then.
I was there. It was the worst atmosphere I've ever experienced. And the most vocal I've heard anyone be to ENIC and Levy. The crowd wasn't just anti-Nuno, there were chants for Levy to get out of the club. Only one outcome.
And it can happen quickly. Ange still has some credit in the bank from the start of last season but he's currently on around the same win percentage as Nuno (and well below the win % of Jose or Conte). If we haven't won any of the next 5 and we're heading into Christmas with the worst win percentage of any Spurs manager in recent history I just don't see how he survives. The groans in the stadium are starting, they will quickly snowball into open revolt against him, ENIC and Levy, and as history shows us our little bald friend is going to need a human sacrifice. And he has one.
I'm not saying he should be sacked, I'm saying he will be sacked.