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Management Ange Postecoglou

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I was very vocally Ange-out at the end of last season and got skewered for it then. I wanted us to have a summer window with a new manager. As that didn’t happen I wanted to give this all another chance this season.

I’m not convinced it’s over yet, but it’s dangerously close to being so. Odobert injury couldn’t have come at a worse time for Ange with the other wingers stinking it up.

I’m interested to see what happens the next 2-3 games. If things start deteriorating Levy will need to step in and pull the trigger.
 
SeeSpotRun said:
It's true, but it's a cherry-picked cut-off date.

I'd rather look at full rounds, because they include playing everybody once so are at least somewhat meaningful:
  • First half of 2023/24 we got 36 points from 19 games, 5th best in the league. That included 8 injury-hit games after the Chelsea disaster
  • Second half of 2023/24 we got 30 points from 19 games, 7th best. Those 19 games included 3 at the tail end of our injury / AFC / AFCON player availability crisis.

Look at the second half first: most pundits expected to finish around 7th last season (there was even a thread created about that expectation, "The Race for 7th"). So achieving 7th best in the second half of the season was pretty much in line with expectations for a new manager during a rebuild. Certainly not the unmitigated disaster, "found out", "out of his depth", "Ange out" crisis that some seem to enjoy painting it as.

The first half of the season, measured against the same expectations, was outstanding. Maybe there was some "new manager bounce" at the start, but there was equally a solid effort during the injury-hit period that followed, getting 3 wins and an away draw against City in the 8 games after the Chelsea disaster.

But that overperformance in the first half of the season seems to have ironically helped feed the narrative that Ange doesn't know what he is doing, because our second round results weren't up to the same standard.

I know the comparison is over-done but for reference, Woolwich in their first 5 half-seasons of the rebuild under Arteta were 5th, 11th, 5th, 4th and 5th, plus one FA Cup. Ange so far is 5th and 7th. He's doing ok.
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Ahhhhh, a lifeboat of actual sense in a sea of dumb hysteria.

He finished 5th last season, 1 point or whatever off Champions League in a transitional year.

This season is 4 games in.

Tonight we played objectively bad, owing largely to a heavily rotated team. There's no doubt that we were fortunate to get by. On the other hand, performances this season (if not results) have been good on the whole. Turning another good performance into an actual result against Brentford and hopefully he'll be slightly less 'found out'. 🤞
 
And through it all, he offers us possession
But not a lot more to mention, whether that's right or wrong.

We can't score goals, this club will fucking break me, not sure where it will take me, when all is said and done.

I'm loving Big Ange no more.

Robbie Williams GIF by Magic Radio
 
You can say all you like about how bad Levy is, but he's not stupid enough to be fooled by last night's result.

They showed him sat in the crowd at 1-0 and it was the face of a man thinking about the next move.

It's not if. It's when.

WC 7th Oct for me, but anymore standout poor showings like last night could speed things up.

He can't save this. The players look bored. Then "defending" last night was embarrassing. Mids and attackers for the most part almost looked happy to lose.

Let's just hope the next Ex Tottenham manager can get a tune out of Gray, Johnson and Solanke, who at a total cost of about £150,000,000 are probably now at Tottenham for years.
 
Mince Charming said:
I love Ange but results and performances need to improve. Otherwise, there's really no choice but to replace him with that other Celtic manager, Brendan Rodgers.

The case being that in his second season at Liverpool he was a Gerrard slip away from winning the league. In his second season at Celtic he won a treble. In his second (full) season at Leicester he won the FA Cup. Now in his second season back at Celtic, he's on course to win another treble and potentially the Champions League.

So you see? He almost always wins something in his second season. Two year plan!

:nunothumb:
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Are you gonna jog on when your mate gets sacked?
Or will you be here every day telling us how he's doing in his next pub league job?

SeeSpotRun said:
It's true, but it's a cherry-picked cut-off date.

I'd rather look at full rounds, because they include playing everybody once so are at least somewhat meaningful:
  • First half of 2023/24 we got 36 points from 19 games, 5th best in the league. That included 8 injury-hit games after the Chelsea disaster
  • Second half of 2023/24 we got 30 points from 19 games, 7th best. Those 19 games included 3 at the tail end of our injury / AFC / AFCON player availability crisis.

Look at the second half first: most pundits expected to finish around 7th last season (there was even a thread created about that expectation, "The Race for 7th"). So achieving 7th best in the second half of the season was pretty much in line with expectations for a new manager during a rebuild. Certainly not the unmitigated disaster, "found out", "out of his depth", "Ange out" crisis that some seem to enjoy painting it as.

The first half of the season, measured against the same expectations, was outstanding. Maybe there was some "new manager bounce" at the start, but there was equally a solid effort during the injury-hit period that followed, getting 3 wins and an away draw against City in the 8 games after the Chelsea disaster.

But that overperformance in the first half of the season seems to have ironically helped feed the narrative that Ange doesn't know what he is doing, because our second round results weren't up to the same standard.

I know the comparison is over-done but for reference, Woolwich in their first 5 half-seasons of the rebuild under Arteta were 5th, 11th, 5th, 4th and 5th, plus one FA Cup. Ange so far is 5th and 7th. He's doing ok.
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It's not a cherry pick cut off date. It just shows (factually) that we're winning less and less games and taking less and less points.
Even with yours own narrow vision we took 6 less in half a season. We're on course to take even less than that in the first half of this season.
So what are you gonna do to try to make things look ropey when 36 becomes 30 and 30 becomes 20ish?
 
daveyboy88 said:
name a game youve seen anything like that. no footballer is going to want to play for some kamikaze Z league idiot.
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The game was crazy...no-one debates that.

Personally, I've said it on here time and time again, I loved how we played after going down to 9 men. It was fucking ballsy. We almost equalised three times before they got their two late goals. We are shit at sitting back so I don't think we get those chances if we did and would still have lost.

Regardless of that debate, some need to get over it. It was a unique set of circumstances and we rolled the dice. It was a year ago.
 
Aussies Dream said:
Maybe THFC isn’t cut out for this football stuff? Maybe we should stick to concerts and karting🤷‍♂️

thoughts?
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Maybe Big Ange isnt cut out for this premier league stuff? Maybe he should stick to the Z list leagues.

Scraping a win against Coventry. And he was heralded as the second coming of Jesus. Getting played off the pitch by a championship side.

Wild that we brought this guy in whos nearly 60 years old and has barely managed more than a sunday league team in his whole life
 
SeeSpotRun said:
It's true, but it's a cherry-picked cut-off date.

I'd rather look at full rounds, because they include playing everybody once so are at least somewhat meaningful:
  • First half of 2023/24 we got 36 points from 19 games, 5th best in the league. That included 8 injury-hit games after the Chelsea disaster
  • Second half of 2023/24 we got 30 points from 19 games, 7th best. Those 19 games included 3 at the tail end of our injury / AFC / AFCON player availability crisis.

Look at the second half first: most pundits expected to finish around 7th last season (there was even a thread created about that expectation, "The Race for 7th"). So achieving 7th best in the second half of the season was pretty much in line with expectations for a new manager during a rebuild. Certainly not the unmitigated disaster, "found out", "out of his depth", "Ange out" crisis that some seem to enjoy painting it as.

The first half of the season, measured against the same expectations, was outstanding. Maybe there was some "new manager bounce" at the start, but there was equally a solid effort during the injury-hit period that followed, getting 3 wins and an away draw against City in the 8 games after the Chelsea disaster.

But that overperformance in the first half of the season seems to have ironically helped feed the narrative that Ange doesn't know what he is doing, because our second round results weren't up to the same standard.

I know the comparison is over-done but for reference, Woolwich in their first 5 half-seasons of the rebuild under Arteta were 5th, 11th, 5th, 4th and 5th, plus one FA Cup. Ange so far is 5th and 7th. He's doing ok.
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You're looking at things as averages and missing the crucial details.

Ultimately, the team has been utterly woeful in executing an attractive and dangerous attacking style of play for quite some time now, with the once in a blue moon excellent performance that catches the eye - against a bottom half team mind you. When executing a rebuild of course progression is going to be non-linear, you're going to have bad moments and a few very off days.

What we're currently seeing is very little of the opposite to show us signs that the "re-build" is slowly but surely coming to fruition and gaining momentum. Where are the golden glimpses of what we have to come? We as a fan base have been through a lot and are pretty tolerant when it comes down to it, but what we're seeing right now is ugly, turgid and effin boring us to death.

90% of the time we have looked way off it, for donkeys years now, the players seemingly have no clue how to execute any attacking game plan, it's like watching ground hog day. They're utterly devoid of ideas going forward - it's pure chaos - precision with passing & movement in attacking plays, such as between the lines and making runs into danger is non existent. The players seem to of lost the ability to pre-empt each others attacking movement, leading to constant dawdling on and off the ball and aimless attacking play for the most part.

Fast, attractive, precise football is no where to be seen. The opposition might as well be lying on sunbeds waiting for us to eventually give the ball away once we've done enough aimless side passing and dawdling on the ball outside the box.
 
Still Ange in as we are a graveyard for managers and it makes no difference who we get . Besides I think we are seen by most managers as a club to avoid with Levy in charge, it’s why we ended up with Ange and Nuno . Conte and Mourhino were toxic and arrogant enough to give it a go, can’t see another high profile manager taking it on .
 
A proven winner is on our hands, folks, and now we can see it right in front of us. Not only have we reached the second round of the fxxking Carabao Cup, we did it with a magnificent turnaraound, including winner in Fergie-time.

If that doesn't give faith in the project, I can't help you.
 
Mince Charming said:
I love Ange but results and performances need to improve. Otherwise, there's really no choice but to replace him with that other Celtic manager, Brendan Rodgers.

The case being that in his second season at Liverpool he was a Gerrard slip away from winning the league. In his second season at Celtic he won a treble. In his second (full) season at Leicester he won the FA Cup. Now in his second season back at Celtic, he's on course to win another treble and potentially the Champions League.

So you see? He almost always wins something in his second season. Two year plan!

:nunothumb:
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#BrendanIn

mob GIF
 
Pzabbythethird said:
Arteta was implementing a system, and seemed to have plans A, B, C, etc.

I'm concerned we're not seeing a plan B.
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That only needs to concern us if our Plan A isn't good enough.

Ange's strategy of sticking to one way of playing, regardless of opponent, has brought him success at his last 4 clubs, so of course he's going to try the same here. But he'll continue to evolve than Plan A, as he has done elsewhere; the system he coaches at Tottenham is very different to the way he coached Brisbane Roar (interesting read here)

The main change between Celtic and Spurs Ange-ball so far, which crept in during last season, seems to be a more cautious build-up phase. I suspect this is a recognition that EPL opponents are more dangerous on the turnover than SPL, J-League or A-League (surprise surprise), and so it attempts to limit this threat by coughing up the ball less often. But it hasn't worked so far. To be fair, it seems to be limiting opposition chances (we've only shipped 4 goals in 4 PL games, vs 8 in the corresponding games last season). But it's blunted our attacking effectiveness and the summer signings haven't provided the antidote as yet. So he's going to have to tweak it again, to find the right balance of risk-taking in possession to convert our attacking threat into better chances.
 
bk_spur said:
I was very vocally Ange-out at the end of last season and got skewered for it then. I wanted us to have a summer window with a new manager. As that didn’t happen I wanted to give this all another chance this season.

I’m not convinced it’s over yet, but it’s dangerously close to being so. Odobert injury couldn’t have come at a worse time for Ange with the other wingers stinking it up.

I’m interested to see what happens the next 2-3 games. If things start deteriorating Levy will need to step in and pull the trigger.
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Odebert's injury hopefully will give Mikey Moore a chance to see some game time.
I would really like to see Mikey & Will Lankshear on the field at the same time.
 
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