• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Player Heung-Min Son (손흥민)

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

And I don't think that the people wanting Son gone are racist. I just think that they don't get what a player he's been. If you don't know shit about football, you can't see it. But a player of Son's quality is not done at 32. That whole idea is laughable. Every world class player adopt their game as they get older. Their managers adopt it too, because they know what the creativity and ability to finish is worth. That's what you pay for. Not flair, not tap ins.

But you run your players into the ground and you clearly won't get the best out of them.

Isn't it funny how many talked about how Solanke had to start every game and it affected him. Kane did that every season and nobody said anything. And now Solanke's legs have had too much.

But because Son happens to be 32, you point to his legs. You're like a broken clock. Written it for years. Of course eventually you will be right but it's the same nonsense. You guys don't know shit about football. You think that 32 is a high age in football. It really isn't, if the manager is of normal intelligence.
Dude we don't need stats on his his pace isn't even a touch like it used to be - don't get me wrong here I honestly believe Sonny is a great player but he just isn't the player he used to be just by using the eye test & watching him play.

I was there behind the goal at the Man U Corner - most impressive goal I've seen in real life all year!

I don't think anyone is 'racist' by saying he should leave - the fact is he has only a 1 year extension in his contract & I doubt he will stay longer given the form we've had recently & honestly if you've watched any documentary on Sonny he lives alone with hardly any furniture with a console to play Video games. He's a superstar in South Korea & I think he should at 33 when he leaves start having a life :)
 
Not always true the top part. Some players sometimes just can't adapt plenty of world class forwards and defenders in history have lost that yard or two of pace and just never been the same.

Sometimes it's not even just the pace it's the power in the legs not letting them strike a ball like they used to.

I do think Sons not being helped by the system or the fact he's playing 3 times a week but I also don't think you can deny his legs look like they are going.
Yes, it's not always true. But right now, it's all speculation because we have a clown in charge who's making everyone look worse than when he joined. Compare us now to the beginning of the tenure. I'm not going to buy the 'Poor Ange with all the injuries BS'. He's always had that problem. And look at supposedly fast players like BJ. He's got nothing left. He couldn't run last few games. I refuse to believe that BJ's legs are gone either. There is a clear pattern here and 32 is not THAT old. Everything points towards Ange being incompetent. In that case, it's too early to write off anyone. Son is actually fitter than BJ and Solanke. Those old fucks, Solanke and BJ with their legs now gone. Ship them off!
 
Dude we don't need stats on his his pace isn't even a touch like it used to be - don't get me wrong here I honestly believe Sonny is a great player but he just isn't the player he used to be just by using the eye test & watching him play.

I was there behind the goal at the Man U Corner - most impressive goal I've seen in real life all year!

I don't think anyone is 'racist' by saying he should leave - the fact is he has only a 1 year extension in his contract & I doubt he will stay longer given the form we've had recently & honestly if you've watched any documentary on Sonny he lives alone with hardly any furniture with a console to play Video games. He's a superstar in South Korea & I think he should at 33 when he leaves start having a life :)
We're 15th with a manager out of depth. Solanke and BJ legs are also gone. Go figure what the problem is. Is it the manager or the players? Right now all speculation is pure BS.

The numbers actually say that he's still one of the fastest players in the league. No disrespect to anyone but I have more faith in real data than your personal opinion. Maybe he's not AS FAST but so what? If you're still ONE OF THE fastest in the league, you can't really knock on his speed. Especially as he's not purely speed reliant.
 
Right,this isn’t 1988 when players weren’t fit and 32 was called passed their prime and time to retire. These guys can play longer because they have everything in place to prolong their careers. These guys have chefs,sports scientists,massage therapists,have oxygen tents and physios which makes them physically on another level from guys from the past. The stuff they have in place at these to clubs in terms of recovery is incredible.

Sonny is struggling with a lack of form,being tentative in everything he does,the system we play and how much he plays. He is obviously not at his peak now but at 32 I expect players still to be performing at a very high level.

3 games in a week will take it’s toll and that’s where Ange needs to use Sonny sparingly.
 
Right,this isn’t 1988 when players weren’t fit and 32 was called passed their prime and time to retire. These guys can play longer because they have everything in place to prolong their careers. These guys have chefs,sports scientists,massage therapists,have oxygen tents and physios which makes them physically on another level from guys from the past. The stuff they have in place at these to clubs in terms of recovery is incredible.

Sonny is struggling with a lack of form,being tentative in everything he does,the system we play and how much he plays. He is obviously not at his peak now but at 32 I expect players still to be performing at a very high level.

3 games in a week will take it’s toll and that’s where Ange needs to use Sonny sparingly.
actual footballers who play 90% of the game in their head can have longer careers. not players that solely rely on speed. there's a reason usain bolt wasnt winning gold medals in his 30s.
 
Worst Spurs captain for a very long time.

Also one of many huge mistake by Ange. To give Son a past it has been, the captaincy, when he shirks 50/50's and is basically a waste of space nowadays, was bizarre.
 
you just called him an artist you fool. you dont have a clue what youre saying.
Are elite finishers not artists then?

To expand, you entirely missed the point of the original post. So I guess I better draw it in chalk for you. Not that Son, Eriksen, or Hoddle are in any way similar players, but that they were all criticised for not tackling and pulling out of challenges. But that teams need players of their talent, and to pair it alongside those who do the dirty work.
 
Last edited:
Right,this isn’t 1988 when players weren’t fit and 32 was called passed their prime and time to retire. These guys can play longer because they have everything in place to prolong their careers. These guys have chefs,sports scientists,massage therapists,have oxygen tents and physios which makes them physically on another level from guys from the past. The stuff they have in place at these to clubs in terms of recovery is incredible.

Sonny is struggling with a lack of form,being tentative in everything he does,the system we play and how much he plays. He is obviously not at his peak now but at 32 I expect players still to be performing at a very high level.

3 games in a week will take it’s toll and that’s where Ange needs to use Sonny sparingly.

Of course this seems plausable but it just isn't.

In 1988 the culture was different.

The vast majority of players chose not to look after themselves, within or away from football, in the same way the vast majority of players in 2025 do.

Within the clubs in 2025 the regimes measure the players in ways they never did previously. The levels of fitness are way above previous generations of footballers.

However; a players age is still relevant.

A 32 year old player cannot be in the same physical condition as he was at 22, or as a current 22 year old; because of his age.

From 1988 - 1998 players who avoided the drinking culture, ate well and looked after themselves could still prolong their playing careers.

Beardsley and Strachan are the two that spring to mind but there were others.

Son is not the player he was. He is in decline but still at an acceptable level to be a credible Premier League player.

Good enough but not as good as he used to be.

If Son were used from the bench, when opposition midfielders / defenders are getting tired around the hour mark, it would help him and help Spurs supporters to not notice the decline he is clearly in the midst of due to his age.

A more pragmatic coach would have used Son in this way.

He could have been a useful card to play off the bench.

Son is captain and starts games because it helps Levy sell tickets and merch to tourists.

Spence is the best full back at the club, on either flank, but cannot play in the Europa League, due to him not being registered to play, and has been ommitted from team selection from the vast majority of any Spurs games, under the current manager.

There have been 'rumours' of Spence having a bad attitude, to such an extent, most Spurs supporters wanted him jogged on in the summer to make room for someone else.

Having now forced his way into the side; Spence's current form suggests that the judgement of the leadership, at every level of THFC, is so poor it is an absolute disgrace.

Spence is twice the player Pedro Porro will ever be. He can defend and attack.

Ange ignored him for 18 months.
 
Last edited:
Of course this seems plausable but it just isn't.

In 1988 the culture was different.

The vast majority of players chose not to look after themselves, within or away from football, in the same way the vast majority of players in 2025 do.

Within the clubs in 2025 the regimes measure the players in ways they never did previously. The levels of fitness are way above previous generations of footballers.

However; a players age is still relevant.

A 32 year old player cannot be in the same physical condition as he was at 22, or as a current 22 year old; because of his age.

From 1988 - 1998 players who avoided the drinking culture, ate well and looked after themselves could still prolong their playing careers.

Beardsley and Strachan are the two that spring to mind but there were others.

Son is not the player he was. He is in decline but still at an acceptable level to be a credible Premier League player.

Good enough but not as good as he used to be.

If Son were used from the bench, when opposition midfielders / defenders are getting tired around the hour mark, it would help him and help Spurs supporters to not notice the dcline he is clearly in the midst of due to his age.

A more pragmatic coach would have used Son in this way.

He could have been a useful card to play off the bench.

Son is captain and starts games because it helps Levy sell tickets and merch to tourists.

Spence is the best full back at the club, on either flank, but cannot play in the Europa League, due to him not being registered to play, and has been ommitted from team selection from the vast majority of any Spurs games, under the current manager.

There have been 'rumours' of Spence having a bad attitude, to such an extent, most Spurs supporters wanted him jogged on in the summer to make room for someone else.

Having forced his way into the side; Spences current form suggests that the judgement of the leadership, at every level of THFC, is so poor it is an absolute disgrace.

Spence is twice the player Pedro Porro will ever be. He can defend and attack.

Ange ignored him for 18 months.
I do agree that a player’s age is relevant but at 32 in this day and age where they have everything in place to be a top athlete it’s not like it was before. Sonny has lost pace but he’s no slouch. We need to use him as an impact player because when fresh he can cause problems.
 
I do agree that a player’s age is relevant but at 32 in this day and age where they have everything in place to be a top athlete it’s not like it was before. Sonny has lost pace but he’s no slouch. We need to use him as an impact player because when fresh he can cause problems.
My point is that Son at 32 is no different to every other 32 year old player in the modern era. They have all had access to diet and fitness that previous generations of footballers did not have previously at the highest level in England.

There was a period where players who looked after themselves could go on playing, against players who were younger but chose not to look after themselves and were not compelled to by their clubs either.

That situation has now passed.

All players are subjected to fitness regimes and dietry requirements for professional athletes.

It is measured and monitored in ways it previously wasn't.

The further point I am making is that I believe Son currently starts games for Spurs and has been made captain for non footballing reasons.

This is the real issue at THFC.

Same with the treatment of Spence.

Spence has a great attitude from what I have seen since Coventry away in the League Cup.

Who is it I wonder who has decided that assasinating this kid's character publicly and excluding him from matchday squads was the best way forward?

Spence could clearly have been helping this team for the last two years but he hasn't been allowed to.

Why do you think that is?
 
We're 15th with a manager out of depth. Solanke and BJ legs are also gone. Go figure what the problem is. Is it the manager or the players? Right now all speculation is pure BS.

The numbers actually say that he's still one of the fastest players in the league. No disrespect to anyone but I have more faith in real data than your personal opinion. Maybe he's not AS FAST but so what? If you're still ONE OF THE fastest in the league, you can't really knock on his speed. Especially as he's not purely speed reliant.
At no point did I say he's shit you don;t need to 'speculate' you can watch the players on the field, you can only speculate on what the Manager is doing, training schedules & halftime talks.

Sonny he just hasn't got the pace as he used to - look at Kyle Walker - if you see him being out paced by other players what are you going to believe the Fifa/Adrenlyn XL stats or your actual eyes?

It's not an opinion I've seen Sonny outpaced by players I've seen on the pitch - does he have the skills to pull off another run like he did at Burnley? maybe but not in this team with 0 rotation opportunity.

I can only speculate on why his pace has dropped he could be overplayed, could be lack of athleticism or even an underlying injury but use your eyes mah dude.
 
Of course this seems plausable but it just isn't.

In 1988 the culture was different.

The vast majority of players chose not to look after themselves, within or away from football, in the same way the vast majority of players in 2025 do.

Within the clubs in 2025 the regimes measure the players in ways they never did previously. The levels of fitness are way above previous generations of footballers.

However; a players age is still relevant.

A 32 year old player cannot be in the same physical condition as he was at 22, or as a current 22 year old; because of his age.

From 1988 - 1998 players who avoided the drinking culture, ate well and looked after themselves could still prolong their playing careers.

Beardsley and Strachan are the two that spring to mind but there were others.

Son is not the player he was. He is in decline but still at an acceptable level to be a credible Premier League player.

Good enough but not as good as he used to be.

If Son were used from the bench, when opposition midfielders / defenders are getting tired around the hour mark, it would help him and help Spurs supporters to not notice the decline he is clearly in the midst of due to his age.

A more pragmatic coach would have used Son in this way.

He could have been a useful card to play off the bench.

Son is captain and starts games because it helps Levy sell tickets and merch to tourists.

Spence is the best full back at the club, on either flank, but cannot play in the Europa League, due to him not being registered to play, and has been ommitted from team selection from the vast majority of any Spurs games, under the current manager.

There have been 'rumours' of Spence having a bad attitude, to such an extent, most Spurs supporters wanted him jogged on in the summer to make room for someone else.

Having now forced his way into the side; Spence's current form suggests that the judgement of the leadership, at every level of THFC, is so poor it is an absolute disgrace.

Spence is twice the player Pedro Porro will ever be. He can defend and attack.

Ange ignored him for 18 months.

I'm confused at how it got this way but I just agreed with both your and Nico's posts.

All other things aside I am of the opinion that it's best to not have your captain be a player who is not able to authoritatively start most games. Ange's time has come to an end at this club, and Son's era has too. We should take this coming change of leadership to also move Son on and chart a new course with squad leadership.

I would suggest Kulusevski for club captain due to his good leadership qualities, but I also yield to everyone else raising concerns about him as a 10 over Maddison- we don't know yet if Kulu is really the conventional 10 that we (apparently) want to build around. Well- with Ange as coach it's just about impossible to rate anyone in any position due to how unconventional and dysfunctional the tactics are, so we don't even really have a good chance to make this determination right now.

If we did for example make Kulusevki next season, and move on Ange and Son, could/would Maddison feel slighted by that? Would we need to move Maddison on as well if we made Kulu captain? I would think it would be natural to not have a relative overabundance of talent as a % of squad contract value in the same position you have a captain that starts most games, so for me, I would probably try to eventually shift Maddison as well to clear the room for the Kulu era. But- if some other player were selected for captain- I'd naturally expect a good management strategy to do the same thing- clear a lil space around the captain and set up the squad around them with them in mind.

I can't even really think back to the last time we did anything like that though. Buying Lloris and having him so long prevented that from being an issue, although we also arguably suffered from not having a more dynamic outfield player actually serve as our captain (Kane was the obvious choice, ofc). In my opinion Spurs have really just failed to do anything assertive or concrete with regards to squad leadership for quite some time now.

We have a big chance to change that in the upcoming months.
 
I'm confused at how it got this way but I just agreed with both your and Nico's posts.

All other things aside I am of the opinion that it's best to not have your captain be a player who is not able to authoritatively start most games. Ange's time has come to an end at this club, and Son's era has too. We should take this coming change of leadership to also move Son on and chart a new course with squad leadership.

I would suggest Kulusevski for club captain due to his good leadership qualities, but I also yield to everyone else raising concerns about him as a 10 over Maddison- we don't know yet if Kulu is really the conventional 10 that we (apparently) want to build around. Well- with Ange as coach it's just about impossible to rate anyone in any position due to how unconventional and dysfunctional the tactics are, so we don't even really have a good chance to make this determination right now.

If we did for example make Kulusevki next season, and move on Ange and Son, could/would Maddison feel slighted by that? Would we need to move Maddison on as well if we made Kulu captain? I would think it would be natural to not have a relative overabundance of talent as a % of squad contract value in the same position you have a captain that starts most games, so for me, I would probably try to eventually shift Maddison as well to clear the room for the Kulu era. But- if some other player were selected for captain- I'd naturally expect a good management strategy to do the same thing- clear a lil space around the captain and set up the squad around them with them in mind.

I can't even really think back to the last time we did anything like that though. Buying Lloris and having him so long prevented that from being an issue, although we also arguably suffered from not having a more dynamic outfield player actually serve as our captain (Kane was the obvious choice, ofc). In my opinion Spurs have really just failed to do anything assertive or concrete with regards to squad leadership for quite some time now.

We have a big chance to change that in the upcoming months.
Son is still good enough to stay at Spurs for a couple of seasons in my opinion.

Son's current weakness is his age and that has been exposed by his mismanagement by a manager who should probably have never been appointed.

Levy is to blame for all of these things.

I don't blame Ange for taking the Spurs job. How could he not?

Ange has done his best within the constraints placed upon him by Levy.

Man City or Liverpool would take Son tomorrow as a squad player and manage his minutes.

At Spurs, under Ange, Son has been overplayed and underpayed due to a cynical chairman, who exploits every situation to the absolute maximum, to serve his own greedy interests, ahead of the footballing requirements of THFC.

How can I say this with certainty?

Because Levy and ENIC have treated every match attending supporter of THFC in the same contemptible manner, and with the same measure, they have treated great players and great managers who have improved the club.

They sacked Jol at half time, Harry for finishing 4th and Poch 5 months after a Champions League final and 4 consecutive Champions League qualifications.
 
Son is still good enough to stay at Spurs for a couple of seasons in my opinion.

Disagree- you can't have such a highly paid player not starting most of your games. You can't have your captain not starting most games. And you can't remove a player from Captaincy without social ascendancy repercussions- it will be best for Son to be moved on so that natural leadership succession can take place.

The club would be wise at this point in time to move on leadership to new, younger generation from within the spurs players. Remember it didn't have to happen this way- but the club painted itself into a corner by making Son captain in the first place.
 
Back
Top