Yes, but try convincing the "But he won a trophy for us" crowd of that.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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The trophy win was great but also some of the best times supporting Spurs was when we were going to places like Juventus in the CL and playing them off the park. Or when we beat Real Madrid at Wembley.
Or going unbeaten at WHL all season. That might sound odd, because last Wednesday was acutely better in absolute terms. But I can't help but feel that a one off almost fluke trophy win, is just that. A one off. It means nothing else if you aren't a side built to consistently challenge.
My connection to Spurs under Poch was the strongest I've ever had it. Ultimately I wanted Poch gone, because he never got the team over the line (and results and performances did drop off under him. His whole idea with building the midfield around Winks in a diamond formation was awful towards the end of his reign).
So there is a bit of irony there, because Ange got us over the line, but he's a shit manager and delivered a woeful PL season.
So what is it we are after? Is it trophies? or is it consistent success which might mean no trophies?
For me, it is consistent success. Trophies should be an outcome we get if we have a consistent side challenging at the top of the table. We want both of course, but it isn't guaranteed. Look at us under Poch and Woolwich under Arteta.
But I ask you this. Which fans do you think will be more excited about the upcoming league season? Woolwich or Spurs? Who do you think will have a better season? Woolwich or Spurs? It's going to be Woolwich sorry to say.
They are highly likely to finish in the top 3, possibly win the title, or at least go close, probably reach the latter stages of the CL. They've been doing this for a few years now. Yes their fans will moan they haven't won anything, football fans will always moan. But, they wouldn't swap their position for ours in a million years. They'll be jealous for a short while, that we won a trophy, and had some glory. But trust me, by next week they'll have forgotten all about it and will be excited to see their team win most weeks against PL and CL sides. And what will we be looking forward to?
We are likely to get dumped out of the CL, we might make it to the knock outs if we are lucky. Do we see a good domestic cup run? Maybe, but we will likely lose when we come up against a City or Liverpool (or Woolwich).
At the end of the day, I want to be able to go into every PL game each week, positive about my teams chances. Positive that we will see a manager who can adapt his tactics and watch us overcome the other teams. I want us to be sound defensively, and potent in attack.
I want to see us organised.
But ultimately, I want to see us win, often. I don't give a fuck if we win 30 games next season 1 nil. The style of football to me is secondary. I can get just as much enjoyment out of watching my team suffocate opposition to death, be miserly in defence and score from a set piece. Controlling teams. I'd much rather that then lose 4-3 playing gung ho.
Winning is entertaining, losing isn't.
Anyway, the reason i say this. Is because I see so many fans saying Ange needs to be kept on because he won a trophy. It's bollocks. The trophy was a one off.
Ange isn't going to deliver us the Spurs that we all want to see. A team challenging at the top of the PL. We need a different manager for that. I firmly believe with FP coming back, and a new manager, we can get back on that path. It won't be with Ange though.
He is incapable of it. He simpy isn't tactically savy enough, his way of playing is porous and so beatable. He's just a chancer, and next season will be a disaster if he continues in the role.
Or going unbeaten at WHL all season. That might sound odd, because last Wednesday was acutely better in absolute terms. But I can't help but feel that a one off almost fluke trophy win, is just that. A one off. It means nothing else if you aren't a side built to consistently challenge.
My connection to Spurs under Poch was the strongest I've ever had it. Ultimately I wanted Poch gone, because he never got the team over the line (and results and performances did drop off under him. His whole idea with building the midfield around Winks in a diamond formation was awful towards the end of his reign).
So there is a bit of irony there, because Ange got us over the line, but he's a shit manager and delivered a woeful PL season.
So what is it we are after? Is it trophies? or is it consistent success which might mean no trophies?
For me, it is consistent success. Trophies should be an outcome we get if we have a consistent side challenging at the top of the table. We want both of course, but it isn't guaranteed. Look at us under Poch and Woolwich under Arteta.
But I ask you this. Which fans do you think will be more excited about the upcoming league season? Woolwich or Spurs? Who do you think will have a better season? Woolwich or Spurs? It's going to be Woolwich sorry to say.
They are highly likely to finish in the top 3, possibly win the title, or at least go close, probably reach the latter stages of the CL. They've been doing this for a few years now. Yes their fans will moan they haven't won anything, football fans will always moan. But, they wouldn't swap their position for ours in a million years. They'll be jealous for a short while, that we won a trophy, and had some glory. But trust me, by next week they'll have forgotten all about it and will be excited to see their team win most weeks against PL and CL sides. And what will we be looking forward to?
We are likely to get dumped out of the CL, we might make it to the knock outs if we are lucky. Do we see a good domestic cup run? Maybe, but we will likely lose when we come up against a City or Liverpool (or Woolwich).
At the end of the day, I want to be able to go into every PL game each week, positive about my teams chances. Positive that we will see a manager who can adapt his tactics and watch us overcome the other teams. I want us to be sound defensively, and potent in attack.
I want to see us organised.
But ultimately, I want to see us win, often. I don't give a fuck if we win 30 games next season 1 nil. The style of football to me is secondary. I can get just as much enjoyment out of watching my team suffocate opposition to death, be miserly in defence and score from a set piece. Controlling teams. I'd much rather that then lose 4-3 playing gung ho.
Winning is entertaining, losing isn't.
Anyway, the reason i say this. Is because I see so many fans saying Ange needs to be kept on because he won a trophy. It's bollocks. The trophy was a one off.
Ange isn't going to deliver us the Spurs that we all want to see. A team challenging at the top of the PL. We need a different manager for that. I firmly believe with FP coming back, and a new manager, we can get back on that path. It won't be with Ange though.
He is incapable of it. He simpy isn't tactically savy enough, his way of playing is porous and so beatable. He's just a chancer, and next season will be a disaster if he continues in the role.
Is there any player who's been bettered by Ange?
van de vyn is a really good player
It is of course. But let's be honest, we ain't winning more cups under Ange if we have to navigate stronger opposition anyway.
The world, actually.
I've said this before, my professional life has led me to live in many locations across the Midlands and the South West. Every place bar none I've found more Spurs fans than Woolwich fans. Remarkable when you consider our comparative lack of success over the last 3 decades.
We're massive, bro. Which is why I get so irritated when 'fans' on here belittle us and are so prepared to accept mediocrity.
View: https://x.com/hotspurreports/status/1927776861456613684
Very good source for Inter.
If true, seems we are definitely looking to replace Ange.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: "A trophy does NOT mean you're back. It's the gradual progression and consistency of being at the top of the league. Sometimes, a cup competition can hide the fact that you're still struggling."
spot on. football is about looking forward to games, being confident of going to big clubs and giving them a battering, the last 20 months have been torture.
I do understand what you mean..I think it's simple objectivity. We won the Europa an I think the two games against Frankfurt we deserve credit. Bodo where talked up too much. But that United final as a football match was pretty gash( wonderful to win total high) but if we had a fit Maddison or form Kulusevski we'd have nuked them. Under Pochettino there was an 18 month window when we could beat anyone in any way, you could go on other fan forums and they talked about us in hushed tones. Automatic defeat "lads it Spurs " meant something very different. Subjectively we were just one of the best team in Europe. I miss that
Post moved to Clutter.
I feel that’s a bit rough on Ange.
I struggle to name one senior player who has noticeably improved the last two seasons.
Bergvall 100% has.
But I think that’s down to his age and gaining experience week in week out.
Johnson has scored more goals.
But the consensus of those who watch him every week is that’s he’s a passenger for the majority of matches.
you're gonna bitch and moan about diminishing cups while diminishing the last 17 years by calling us losers?
Yes. If you take into account we stayed up by 13 points plus a considerable goal difference.
We had 13 points from the first 8 games; 4 x wins, 1 x draw. 50% win rate, or 1.625 points per game
The following 30 games were 7 wins, 4 draws, 19 losses. 23% win rate, or 0.833 points per game.
So the first 8 games of the season yielded around 2x as many points, and were effectively what kept us up (plus some goal difference).
Now consider we only stayed up because the bottom three were so shit. BUT..
Our record against Leicester, Ipswich and Southampton: P6 W3 D1 L2.
We drew the first game of the season away at Leicester and lost at home... drew to Leicester, during our "best" period of fully fit players. I know ifs and buts, but take our whole form over the last 30 and apply it to the first 8 and it's basically that Leicester draw that determines if we or they got relegated.
Hopefully that doesn't sound like too much in terms of mental gymnastics, but we've heard lots of stuff:
- Injuries
- Fitness issues
- "Concentrating on Europa"
It's not even like we had a blip or a bad patch - both the goals for and goals against have been quite smooth and consistent across the season. More to it, we lost 5 of our last 7 in the previous season.
There's just no trend to suggest things will get better. Brighton should have been the dress rehearsal to take some new confidence to the game but we shipped 4 goals to a team with a 32 year old manager.
We played vastly better ball under Redkapp, Poch and other coaches. You seem to associate the idea of being a loser or a winner strictly with silverware or not.
Our teams during those times were incredible. And you just said they did nothing.
With all due respect, fuck you.
You delicate little flower.
i'm sin binning myself. these idiots have gotten under my skin in an unhealthy way. i'll come back to mock you guys after he's sacked but otherwise i just can't do this for another season. the football is bad enough without all these pricks attacking their fellow supporters who have the temerity to point out that losing 22 times in the league is unacceptable.
