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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 72 64.3%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.7%
  • Total voters
    112
One good thing about his sacking is that it will put more pressure than ever on Baldy to deliver us follow-up success. Hopefully in the shape of a really good manager (not just a punt like Frank, Silva or Areola), and some decent ready to play signings
 
Aimson said:
Did anyone that argues that we should have kept Ange watch the "football" we produced in the EL finals, against a pretty shitty United side? Always grateful for the win though.
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ALL our 3 creative midfielders were injured! (And none muscular injuries so you can’t blame Angeball unlike Udogie and VdV’s injuries).

Ange showed pragmatism with no creative mids, turned the game into a gritty affair, and pulled out the 1-0 win. What more did you want?
 
Shadydan said:
Why is there still bickering in here, the Ange outers got their wish - thread has moved to general and he is no longer our manager anymore

We can now live in peace 😎
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Futurama Squinting GIF


It’s TFC. Always something to cause a cunt off.
 
Richard Arlison said:
It wasn’t the sprints

It will be about that medical team. They were clearly short staffed and incompetent
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Angeball definitely contributed to VdV’s muscular injuries, by making him stand close to the halfway line and sprint back so often.

But Ange also seemed to learn from his mistakes, in second half of season he delayed bringing VdV back to squad so he could work with sports science specialists on future injury prevention.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
Our back up CBs aren’t good enough in any case.

Our PPG in matches either Vicario VdV and Romero starting would have got us 4th place, if it means much.
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Dragusin and Danso is alright. Liverpool's backups are Quansah and Gomez.

The PPG is good tbf but I still feel like we were too reliant on VDV's recovery pace which would have compounded his already existing hamstring issues. So I'm not sure it means much if our playing style means we won't see them pair together for a full season anyway.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
Very valid point that Ange’s style of play itself may have caused some of the muscular injuries. But good squad depth allows rotation to reduce that.
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Which is one of the original problems with Ange. He only ever rotated when he had to. Let a load of players leave on loan and otherwise that he could have used. Flat out refused to play Reggie and put players out of position instead. Didn't even register Spence for the first half of the season, even though when he had no choice it turned out he was arguably better than Udogie. Rushed back Romero and VdV and immediately crocked them both for months.

I think it's all symptomatic of managing full seasons that are way less intense. The whole thing was like someone playing FIFA and holding down the sprint button like it was some kind of secret that other people didn't know about. Pretty sure that's why our first 10 in both seasons was statistically an anomaly compared with the other 75% or so of the season.
 
Raf said:
Dragusin and Danso is alright. Liverpool's backups are Quansah and Gomez.

The PPG is good tbf but I still feel like we were too reliant on VDV's recovery pace which would have compounded his already existing hamstring issues. So I'm not sure it means much if our playing style means we won't see them pair together for a full season anyway.
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Fair- can’t disagree with that. Could we have gotten in a back up CB with rapid speed?
 
CJJ said:
Which is one of the original problems with Ange. He only ever rotated when he had to. Let a load of players leave on loan and otherwise that he could have used. Flat out refused to play Reggie and put players out of position instead. Didn't even register Spence for the first half of the season, even though when he had no choice it turned out he was arguably better than Udogie. Rushed back Romero and VdV and immediately crocked them both for months.

I think it's all symptomatic of managing full seasons that are way less intense. The whole thing was like someone playing FIFA and holding down the sprint button like it was some kind of secret that other people didn't know about. Pretty sure that's why our first 10 in both seasons was statistically an anomaly compared with the other 75% or so of the season.
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This is all true, but is the pragmatism in the Europa League final with all our creative midfielders injured a sign he was learning?

I think people are underestimating the damage the Ange sacking has done to the momentum of the club and the feel good factor of winning the Europa league.
 
SausageVince said:
Thanks for a post that isn't just insults. Appreciate it.

Ok, so here's my nuance.

Had we prioritised league results despite the disastrous injuries we would maybe have finished between 8th and 12th. Instead he rotated and protected key players to get us through the Europa League knock outs. I agree with his strategy there given the context of known resources.

This season the injury crisis meant we had to blood youth to an extent we hadn't planned for. The benefits of that will not be seen for some time (possibly next year but definitely in years to come). The last remnants of the Loch era left the squad in Ange's first year, or they showed signs of age and decline. Due to the recruitment of youth (something I'm not opposed to) we had a perfect storm of lack of depth, experience, and fitness availability. I don't think Ange was the root cause of that.

He has evidently installed a winning mentality and a squad cohesion, perhaps a siege mentality, that I felt would become an irresistible force if the club supplemented it with decent quality recruitment this summer.

Your counterfactual is irrelevant because it didn't happen, but I'll indulge it.

Had he lost against Man United I think I would have been open to a change of manager and a new start. I would have felt sorry for Ange because I think he was dealt a difficult hand (fans used to challenging for champions league football, a great striker departing, an exodus of aging experience including many leaders), but I would have understood and moved on.

That did not happen though. We did win the Europa League. Ange's insistence on following his approach to the competition while balancing the pressure he was receiving from the press and club hierarchy is what delivered the trophy.

It was our first meaningful trophy since 1991 and vital in changing the club culture and outside perception, but yesterday we fired him.
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I can't tell you what to think but I want you to go back to the last 10 games of the season. The Bodo Glimt games were pretty solid, the league games were terrible and the final against United, whilst the defending was, for once, very good, the game itself was painful to watch, partly because of what was at stake and partly because we were very poor for the majority in a bad game of football and yes, the result mattered a lot more than the performance, I know.

Be objective, the way we have played for most of this season is not just a little under par, I have season ticket and it has been really, really bad. Even with the injuries, we didn't adapt, we did not find another way and kept conceding the same goals.

We lost games and performed poorly on way too many occasions, I can list them to you, but I'm not going to hammer this to death. Whilst these terrible performances were happening, there he was on the touchline looking down at his shoes, passively. I'm sorry, I love the fact we won the Europa but I can't let him off.

In January we were 15th and not safe by any means, I don't honestly believe Ange or any sane manager would, at that point say 'fuck this, we'll focus on the Europa' because that genuinely would lead to us endangering our place in the league and but for 3 poor promoted sides, we'd be in a world of trouble. Fair play to him for winning it, but I still can't believe this is the way things happened in reality, the more you think about it, the more insane it looks.

He deserves every credit for getting us over the line and a place in the club's folklore for what he did, but of all the bad decisions by the board, and there are a shedload, this wasn't one.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
Angeball definitely contributed to VdV’s muscular injuries, by making him stand close to the halfway line and sprint back so often.

But Ange also seemed to learn from his mistakes, in second half of season he delayed bringing VdV back to squad so he could work with sports science specialists on future injury prevention.
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I doubt it

Persuasive narrative that it was, most of it would have been how the medical team managed the players
 
Richard Arlison said:
Frank is your guy, Jay?
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He wouldn't be my first pick for us, but he's still a very good manager. What he's done at Brentford is remarkable and if he stayed there another 2 or 3 seasons, I can genuinely see them qualify for Europe and/or win a domestic cup. He's also a very decent, humble, respectful man...which would make a very nice & welcome change from our last incumbent.

If he's our next boss, I sure hope he's the board's first pick and that he gets given time...I don't want another Nuno situation. Realistically, I see him having us in the top 8, losing circa 8-10 games, qualifying for the CL last 16 (probably via playoffs)...and I could see a Carabao Cup or FA Cup win. That's even if Levy sticks to the same old recruitment model.
 
Jaynola said:
He wouldn't be my first pick for us, but he's still a very good manager. What he's done at Brentford is remarkable and if he stayed there another 2 or 3 seasons, I can genuinely see them qualify for Europe and/or win a domestic cup. He's also a very decent, humble, respectful man...which would make a very nice & welcome change from our last incumbent.

If he's our next boss, I sure hope he's the board's first pick and that he gets given time...I don't want another Nuno situation. Realistically, I see him having us in the top 8, losing circa 8-10 games, qualifying for the CL last 16 (probably via playoffs)...and I could see a Carabao Cup or FA Cup win. That's even if Levy sticks to the same old recruitment model.
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Fair and tbh I agree except the trophy. I don’t see Frank as the type to get over the line.

Too much comprise in his character to be a winner imo
 
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