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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
manmountainbutters said:
Disagree on Vila, Man U, and Brighton. Correct on the others.
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Yea fair, probably did get carried away a bit but overall point I think stands. Yesterday clearly not an isolated incident and to have been outplayed by so many teams, including teams who player for player are worse than us, can't go on. I do actually think he's now on borrowed time and it's a question of when not if.
It's shit cos we can't keep doing this as a club but the Chelsea and Woolwich performances and setup was so bad I don't think we have an alternative
 
septicsac said:
Normally I am willing to give a manager time, but I just do not see it with Frank. Too many issues, ridiculously poor home form, not turning up for games against our two biggest rivals, being outplayed in most games,struggling badly against teams we should be dominant against, his negative setup of play, and probably what will do him in in the end having a style of football that might temporarily soothe spurs fans if it is getting results, but watching his football and getting beat will not be tolerated.
We are probably above where we should be in the league, with our goals scored being greater than our xg, our top scorer is a centre half, one of our top players from last yr in Bergvail is arguably regressing under him, players openly disrespecting him on the field after a game, the list is just too big.
It can all change very quickly in football, we have Psg away on Wed(highly unlikely to get pts, might do well to escape a drubbing), followed by games in the league against Fulham at home, Newcastle away and home to Brentford. Arguably if results go well he could turn a corner, but if they do not go well it could easily go the other way and it ain't an easy run of fixtures the way we are performing.
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Yeah. It's not looking good. He has enough standing for me to think we should stick with him and see where things go. Get rid if languishing bottom 1/3 after Christmas. Otherwise keep till end of season. If we finish top 8 then keep and back him. If not, get rid.
 
I maybe overthinking it, but there's something about Frank that makes me feel he doesn't want to upset the senior players, Richarlison, Bentancur, Paliniha, Romero, Vicario etc, so keeps selecting them over the likes of Bergvall, Gray, Sarr etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, is he strong enough?
 
Don Pedro said:
He had to leave Brentford eventually and take his chance at a top team. He interviewed for Chelsea and United last Summer but didn't get either job. Spurs this summer probably felt like the right time for him. No other top English team were looking for a manager.

Its a very tough job. Near impossible as the expectations are we should be competing for titles when we are years away from that being a reality. So in the meantime you have to bridge that gap while also keeping supporters onside. Winning derby games would be the best way to do that! That's how Arteta bought time. He won an FA cup early on but he always made sure his teams performed against Spurs and Chelsea. They were a mess for years, losing many poor games at home where they looked clueless on the ball. But they nearly always showed up against spurs and chelsea and that keeps supporters onside.

But the reaility is, Frank is failing and showing himself to be out of his depth. Managing lower table teams and making them hard to beat seems to be his speciality and unfortunately he is beginning to look like a one trick pony. Nearly 4 months into the season now and I don't think we've properly dominated any game of football or looked like a top team on the ball.
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I didn't know that he'd interviewed for those other teams last summer, I'm speculating again, but I read that he's worked with Lange before in some sort of role in Denmark, so had someone inside the club at a senior level able to put in a good word for him. Maybe Frank hasn't realised his limitations, but on top of them, at our club, we've overspent on players that he now has to make look like their value.

So it's a double pronged poisoned chalice.

1) Not being up to the task of managing one of the bigger Premier League clubs.
2) Managing players that aren't preforming as their price-tag would suggest, simply because the club overpaid for them.

Now on top of all that he's got the supporters pissed because of the manner the team lost the two recent London derby matches.

This was his comments around the time he was appointed;

“I know the ethos and the history of the club is massive on attacking football, and there is so much attacking talent in the squad," said Frank. "I’m very, very big on principles and what we do in the final third in terms of creating chances.

“I always say this one-liner: if you don’t take risks, you also take risks. So it’s important we take risks. Risk is you need to play forward.

"If you don’t risk the ball, you can’t create things. We need to be brave."
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I don't know about anybody else but I'm not seeing it.
 
The cost of hiring him and his coaches and firing them while we sit mid table and five points off second means it won’t happen.

We are pissed off with things and are rightly moaning about it but the manager will be going nowhere this season. Of that I’m fairly confident unless we lose match after match.

One thing that does concern me is his players’ attitude towards him. They don’t seem to respect him.
 
It's hard to beat on him too much with so little attacking talent.
Once he can pick from any of Richarlison, Solanke, Odobert, Tel, Johnson, Simons, Kudus, Kulusevski, Muani and Madison regularly then it's anyones guess as to where this team is (or isn't) going.
The shockingly low Xg and the line last week that our game plan is to limit shots to those from inside the box near the goal worries me though.

I'm not getting too upset at the hammering yesterday based on the fact we saw Redknapp and Poch take some serious beatings in their first and 2nd seasons.
BBC SPORT | Football | Premier League | Man Utd 5-2 Tottenham
www.bbc.co.uk

Manchester City 4-1 Tottenham Hotspur

Four goals from Sergio Aguero give Manchester City a 4-1 win over Spurs in an eventful match that features four penalties.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk

Newcastle United 5-1 Tottenham Hotspur

Ten-man Newcastle bid farewell to the Premier League with an extraordinary win over Tottenham, who finish third.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

So just keep in mind that 2 of the best we've had in the entire premier league era have both had some pretty harsh results in their early days.
 
There is hope for Frank.......in Poch's first season he had us 10th with 17 points after the first 12 games.

The team started to click just before Christmas after game 15 when we won 3 in a row.

We shall see
 
Distaste for scouse said:
So Vic comes out after the game and says that the players didn't fight and you still put 100% of the blame on the manager...
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Yes, the manager picks the team, determines the tactics and is responsible for having the players ready. Frank failed all three of them responsibilities. Vic's apology is choreographed bollocks every player is taught after a hammering. Simple truth is that these players are not convinced with these non league tactics. Actually that's an unfair dig at non league football. I went to an Isthmian Premier Division game on Saturday and both teams played some great football in horrendous conditions.
Distaste for scouse said:
It was obvious what the managers tactics yesterday were because they were the same tactics we used in pre-season against PSG to good effect. We were set up to press defensivley, give up no space and look to get out on transition and hit the opponent with counters or set pieces.
It was for sure the best tactic we could have employed against Woolwich and could have worked.

The issue is the players weren't on it, Against PSG we harried and pressed and denied them space, against Woolwich we shuffled side to side and gave their players time to get their heads up and pick a pass. Which killed us.
There was no pressure on the ball, no snap to our play and when we got the ball we got bullied and lost it.
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You are focusing on this PSG game like it is a really strong barometer of Frank being some sort of tactical genius. Rubbish... Let me remind you that this was a PSG team who had been back in training for 3 days after the club world cup and by the way we still couldn't beat them with a full pre season behind us.

Why do you think the players weren't on it. It's a NLD... the only thing obvious yesterday was that the manager waved the white flag before a ball had been kicked. I have never seen a Spurs team use their GK to take a free kick inside our own half directly at the opponents penalty area. That is not the best tactic to beat Woolwich. You beat Woolwich by taking them out of their comfort zone. We have players who can hurt them but sadly Frank (and you) fail to see this and are happy being a poor man's Stoke.

Distaste for scouse said:
So No, it wasn't purely on the tactics or the manager.
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You're right. It wasn't purely on the tactics... his team selection and inability to motivate also contributed to one of the most shameful days in our history.
 
ElTel said:
There is hope for Frank.......in Poch's first season he had us 10th with 17 points after the first 12 games.

The team started to click just before Christmas after game 15 when we won 3 in a row.

We shall see
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The underlying numbers are awful for Frank, way worse than anything in Pochs first season. Also Poch was trying to implement a system he had experience in coaching at Southampton and Espanyol, there were hallmarks even in the bad results of his pressing game, methods of getting us into the final third and possession structure even when we were failing to execute it.

Frank has shown none of that so far, he's set us up like Brentford to send balls into the channel, midfielders play safe in front of a low block, Vicario going long etc. It's the kind of football he's coached his whole career, I see no reason to suggest he will, or is even capable of coaching us into a more progressive side.
 
Forget PSG, that's done.

Fulham home
Newcastle away
Brentford home

That's a massive week for Frank. The performances are even more important than the points return imo.

We need to see more attacking intent and we need to see the players fighting for each other and the shirt.

If we don't see the latter you could question whether the players are behind him.
 
Agree with Jamie Carragher for once!

"The one negative so far under Thomas Frank is can he go from being a pragmatic coach and trying to make it difficult for the opposition as he tried to do here."It's more about how are they going score? How are they going to win a game? I can keep going back to the underlying numbers and the xG. It's very low."Even after watching the first five minutes of the game you're thinking 'what are Tottenham going to do here to hurt Woolwich?'"That is the problem with every manager making a jump to a top team. You've got to have more than just trying to stop the opposition. That's not having a go at Thomas Frank. The top managers are there for a reason."They are special, they are elite. It's because they can coach teams to be difficult to beat at times, but also they can coach teams to win games. That is the big difference. If you don't get that right, you won't be in a job that long."
 
Son Spurs said:
The underlying numbers are awful for Frank, way worse than anything in Pochs first season. Also Poch was trying to implement a system he had experience in coaching at Southampton and Espanyol, there were hallmarks even in the bad results of his pressing game, methods of getting us into the final third and possession structure even when we were failing to execute it.

Frank has shown none of that so far, he's set us up like Brentford to send balls into the channel, midfielders play safe in front of a low block, Vicario going long etc. It's the kind of football he's coached his whole career, I see no reason to suggest he will, or is even capable of coaching us into a more progressive side.
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Not capable of changing. His football is archaic and this experiment needs to end soon so we can bring a new manager in and he can use the rest of another wasted season to evaluate the squad. There are a few good players in there. This manager is failing those players miserably.
 
wee said:
So you're saying that so far his tenure is manure?

iu
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More or less :harrylol:
 
JDefoe said:
We are, underlying metrics-wise, worse than we were last year under Ange at the same point in the season.
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After week twelve of last season we had a record of won 6, lost 5 and 1 draw, see table below.

As of Saturday, week twelve of the season, we have a record of won 5 lost 4 and 3 draws.

"metric wise" that is.

"metric wise" we lost 22 games, and at the same time were lucky that there were three shittier teams below us.

But hey-ho lets laud the man who couldn't last forty days at Forest.

I don't know what you expect after Frank has been at the club for twelve games, has lost Maddison, Kulu and Solanke, and their club legend has left us.

I mean do you want a managers contract to be renewed monthly?

We lost on Sunday to the likely PL Champions, a club managed by someone who has been with them for six seasons, not four months. A manager who when he started was lambasted for having a "process" was ridiculed and finished below Spurs for a third of his tenure.

Woolwich are now reaping what they sowed, have a far superior squad and to deny how they have progressed over the past half a decade is foolish.

I think our board of directors have seen the light, understand the financial investment we require to be competitive and have appointed a good manager.

To expect the squad issues to be fixed in one transfer window, with key players missing, after four months with a new management team, is plain fucking stupid.

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