Player Guglielmo Vicario

[Shadydan]

I love the IDEA of playing out from the back, but the evidence is just overwhelming that we don't have the quality or decision-making under pressure to do so. If we had quicker build-up play to take advantage of inviting this pressure then it might be worth it, but we're slow and lazy about going forward.

Thomas Frank and the players are reverting back to Angeball before our very eyes.

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This is not Ange ball mate, it's just modern football, Frank literally played like this at Brentford.

As I said every manager these days wants their players and teams to play out from the back

The alternative of course is going long constantly which you end up losing the ball and putting yourself under pressure. In our case if Vic went long to Richy in that instance the ball is just going to come back as he's generally terrible at 50/50s

 

[daveyboy88]

I agree.

And I think people follow trends in football. City started playing out of the back and Pep is a genious so then it follows that you started to see other sides trying to emulate it even if they didn't have the personel.

Fast forward to this season and the back end of last season, Woolwich started scoring goals from corners and even experimenting with the long throw. Now its all the rage. Brentford do it, we do it. You see it just about every game. Somebody trying to do a long throw and half the time they don't even have the technique or basic upper body strength.

Basic Stoke ball came full circle.

People are suckers for a trend.

I'm sure we will see a return to 4-4-fucking-2 before long....

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youd think these managers who are paid millions of pounds a year, would actually devise the best way to play with what they have and not try and copy ideas from other managers with a completely different set of players. youd think that would be pretty standard when getting paid millions, it should all be bespoke.

 

[Defqon]

That's the point, teams use it to open up space on the pitch so they can progress the ball up the pitch, it's a game of cat and mouse.

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It opens up space, sometimes, gives away goals other times by shifting players out of their natural position, in the hope the opposition might do the same. The problem is in that video how the author knows the other team will play a front 3, the wide forwards go to the centre halves, and leave the goalkeeper with a two on 1 in front of him. What if a front 2 get between the cs and press inwardly while the midfield stay man for man.

What it really is, is something that worked for Pep at Barca and suddenly it's cool and no one can be left out. A bit like managers who rely on that xg bullshit.it simply invites pressure and very, very rarely, especially for Spurs, succeeds

 

[Distaste for scouse]

youd think these managers who are paid millions of pounds a year, would actually devise the best way to play with what they have and not try and copy ideas from other managers with a completely different set of players. youd think that would be pretty standard when getting paid millions, it should all be bespoke.

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I think its apparent which teams are the pressing teams and the manager should instruct accordingly. Not every team presses, some allow you to play out of the back so its low risk. others press the granny out of you.

I'd like to think the players have the footballing IQ to realise when the pass is or is not on, but I think our players are thick as mince on and off the pitch.

 

[Shadydan]

It opens up space, sometimes, gives away goals other times by shifting players out of their natural position, in the hope the opposition might do the same. The problem is in that video how the author knows the other team will play a front 3, the wide forwards go to the centre halves, and leave the goalkeeper with a two on 1 in front of him. What if a front 2 get between the cs and press inwardly while the midfield stay man for man.

What it really is, is something that worked for Pep at Barca and suddenly it's cool and no one can be left out. A bit like managers who rely on that xg bullshit.it simply invites pressure and very, very rarely, especially for Spurs, succeeds

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If the wide forwards mark the centre halves then the full backs will be free and it becomes an easy out ball.

At the end of the day football has moved on, it will always have new trends as coaches try to find innovative ways to get the ball up the pitch and exploit space, it's modern football, if Pep wasn't doing it then someone else would have.

 

[Shadydan]

I think its apparent which teams are the pressing teams and the manager should instruct accordingly. Not every team presses, some allow you to play out of the back so its low risk. others press the granny out of you.

I'd like to think the players have the footballing IQ to realise when the pass is or is not on, but I think our players are thick as mince on and off the pitch.

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What are you talking about??, literally every team plays some sort of press these days, you even see it in grass roots...what are we even doing here?

Every team has a different methods of pressing but to say not every team presses is categorically incorrect, if teams aren't pressing then they're get torn to shreds l.

That is literally a requirement in modern football.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

What are you talking about??, literally every team plays some sort of press these days, you even see it in grass roots...what are we even doing here?

Every team has a different methods of pressing but to say not every team presses is categorically incorrect, if teams aren't pressing then they're get torn to shreds l.

That is literally a requirement in modern football.

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What you are doing is chatting absolute shit as usual... nothing new.

Low block sides do not aggressivley press on an opposition goal kick. But weren't you trying to gaslight me the other day that nobody low blocks anymore?

Within the context of this discussion I'm obviously talking about a 4-6 player press on an opposition goal kick. I'm clearly not talking about pressing in the defensive sense. And I think you know that.
Not every team presses in that way on an opposition goal kick and you know this full well. So you are just being disengenious.

you are a football hipster. Probably never played the game in your entire life and spend your time trying to gaslight people with clips and heat maps.

Do me a favour and fuck off

 

[Shadydan]

What you are doing is chatting absolute shit as usual... nothing new.

Low block sides do not aggressivley press on an opposition goal kick. But weren't you trying to gaslight me the other day that nobody low blocks anymore?

you are football hipster. Probably never played the game in your entire life and spend your time trying to gaslight people with clips and heat maps.

Do me a favour and fuck off

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What do you mean 'low block sides' what are you on about?? lmao

No side sets out to play in a low block, that just doesn't happen. Inferior teams are often forced into a low block shape by superior opposition because they aren't good enough to keep the ball and they will eventually be pushed back.

Even the other day Wolves were pressing Woolwich on goal kicks when they went short and when they were playing out from the back, do you actually watch football? lol
The irony of you calling me a football hipster and you're using terms such as 'low block' dickhead

I'll wait until you give me an example of a low block side, like who are you talking about?

 

[Distaste for scouse]

What do you mean 'low block sides' what are you on about?? lmao

No side sets out to play in a low block, that just doesn't happen. Inferior teams are often forced into a low block shape by superior opposition because they aren't good enough to keep the ball and they will eventually be pushed back.

Even the other day Wolves were pressing Woolwich on goal kicks when they went short and when they were playing out from the back, do you actually watch football? lol
The irony of you calling me a football hipster and you're using terms such as 'low block' dickhead

I'll wait until you give me an example of a low block side, like who are you talking about?

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So according to you, no teams these days ever sets up to go low block as a game plan? My lying eyes must be deceiving me...

"That one time at band camp when Wolves didn't set up defensive at the Emirates" that's your argument?

FML

Think I'm going to wang you on ignore. its been a long time coming but you twist my melon.

And we both know you never played the game in your life your silence speaks volumes. You are a scrawny fuck with a keyboard. Adios.

 

[bonaspur23]

There are times for playing out from the back and times for playing long.

The occasional one-off mistake is an accepted part of the risk. But if you are constantly conceding these types of goals and still insist on playing out from the back because "everyone does it", then you must enjoy losing.

Similarly, if you aren't creating any chances from building out of the back, then there is no reward. And why accept risk with no reward? If the best outcome is that you break the press and do nothing with it and the worst outcome is you concede a goal, then just play long and try to win 2nd balls. And if you can't do that, you're screwed.

 

[Shadydan]

So according to you, no teams these days ever sets up to go low block as a game plan? My lying eyes must be deceiving me...

"That one time at band camp when Wolves didn't set up defensive at the Emirates" that's your argument?

FML

Think I'm going to wang you on ignore. its been a long time coming but you twist my melon.

And we both know you never played the game in your life your silence speaks volumes. You are a scrawny fuck with a keyboard. Adios.

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Give me an example of a team who exclusively set up in a low block shape, the fact that you're putting me on ignore tells me you're just running away from your own bullshit.

I actually used the Wolves/Arse match as an example because it was the bottom team vs the top team in the Prem, Wolves actually along with Burnley play the deepest line on average in the league but this is them pressing on goal kicks:

What do you see here: Two players in our box pressing our CB's and then two cm's pressing our cm's - what kind of a fucking 'low block' is this

You btw haven't played the game either - that doesn't stop anyone from having a basic understanding of football - you're massively out of depth in this convo mate, putting me on ignore to save yourself from any more embarrassment is the best thing you could do.

 

[GinolasLeftFoot]

This is another pointless pass it ends back at Vicario the ball also is not bobbling into Palhina whos first instinct is always sideways. The fact is Vicario is absolute liability he misplaces passes up to an average of 8 times a game this season. Vicario has more errors leading to goals than any other player in the Premier League this season. That is without counting being beaten by almost every shot from outsid/edge of the area.

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Vicario if f*cking shit. Is what he is.

A good shot stopper, yeah, no arguments.

But good goalies are consistently able to make the right decisions. When to clear, quickly release, play out, or just hoof it. Vicario's decision making is pub level, it's actually fraudulent.

He can fuck off back to Italy. I don't dislike him as a person, but as professional goalie? Grade a tosser.

 

[Bazali]

So according to you, no teams these days ever sets up to go low block as a game plan? My lying eyes must be deceiving me...

"That one time at band camp when Wolves didn't set up defensive at the Emirates" that's your argument?

FML

Think I'm going to wang you on ignore. its been a long time coming but you twist my melon.

And we both know you never played the game in your life your silence speaks volumes. You are a scrawny fuck with a keyboard. Adios.

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k

 

[peter merison]

Decent shot stopper but doesn't command his area, makes fuck up after fuck up and blames the nearest 19 year old .
I've had enough of his nervous play , terrible kicking ability and his fucking small eyes...

 

[The Mercurial No.10]

You can just feel another essay with screenshots brewing to attempt to justify being fucking wrong.

 

[Herclueless]

There are times for playing out from the back and times for playing long.

The occasional one-off mistake is an accepted part of the risk. But if you are constantly conceding these types of goals and still insist on playing out from the back because "everyone does it", then you must enjoy losing.

Similarly, if you aren't creating any chances from building out of the back, then there is no reward. And why accept risk with no reward? If the best outcome is that you break the press and do nothing with it and the worst outcome is you concede a goal, then just play long and try to win 2nd balls. And if you can't do that, you're screwed.

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Unfortunately we're shit at both so I'm not sure where this leaves us...

 

[Herclueless]

Vicario if f*cking shit. Is what he is.

A good shot stopper, yeah, no arguments.

But good goalies are consistently able to make the right decisions. When to clear, quickly release, play out, or just hoof it. Vicario's decision making is pub level, it's actually fraudulent.

He can fuck off back to Italy. I don't dislike him as a person, but as professional goalie? Grade a tosser.

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I mean, I'd kind of argue with this tbh...

There's nothing remarkable about his shot stopping relative to his peers, it's just much better than the rest of his own game, which is a very low bar.

And he seems like a dick tbf.

 

[Defqon]

You can just feel another essay with screenshots brewing to attempt to justify being fucking wrong.

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I'll sum it up in one sentence

Sell him to Inter, bring in Sommer and we won't have anywhere near the number of posts taking about goalkeeping errors.

 

[Shadydan]

You can just feel another essay with screenshots brewing to attempt to justify being fucking wrong.

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You should be thanking me for dumbing down my argument for a complete simpleton like you, you might actually learn something for once.

 

[CJJ]

I'll sum it up in one sentence

Sell him to Inter, bring in Sommer and we won't have anywhere near the number of posts taking about goalkeeping errors.

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I feel like we could bring Brad Friedel back out of retirement and still achieve the same thing

What lets Vic down isn't his lack of ability - it's his lack of humility. Why the fuck should a goalkeeper be constantly getting found out for basic things I don't know - it's been too weak at crosses, to trying to take on attackers with the ball at his feet, to playing hospital passes to defenders being pressed, and the whole time he's shouting at other players and blaming the fans.

Of course Frank reinforcing it hasn't helped. But we could have a big lump in goal that just boots it off into the stands any time the ball comes to his feet and it would be a significant improvement.