So what???
Was it the same ref? The same linos? The same VAR team?
Lol this is hilarious watching so much projection and inability to come to terms with us being shit at the moment.
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Rules Referees & Impartiality: Can this be delivered on a consistent basis?
- Thread starter pleb
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So what???
Was it the same ref? The same linos? The same VAR team?
Lol this is hilarious watching so much projection and inability to come to terms with us being shit at the moment.
What do you mean so what? You just literally said that we aren't good at buying fouls like Gabriel does, I've just shown you a clip of Romero going down after a blatant foul (he didn't even buy a foul ffs) and now you're moving the goalposts saying was it the same ref, the same linos, the same VAR team, what are we even doing here?
This is what I'm saying you'll never be convinced so all you're gonna do is gaslight and turn a blind eye to it.
This was a foul
View: https://x.com/Afcsammmm/status/2025634362885111873
Whilst this wasn't
View: https://x.com/AbnormalToast10/status/2025655669701951964
dudu reckon there's no bias officiating in the league.
My neighbour must've wondered what was going on in my place because my son and went from cheering to effing and jeffing at the screen in the space of about a minute.
We were shouting at the officials as loudly as we celebrated the fucking goal, which goes to show what an atrocious decision it was.
View: https://x.com/propsmcfc/status/2025898172086727161?s=46&t=fbqxNuG9CT4qTaiJx8mBjg
Some noise about this obvious dive from Trossard
Bigger picture, since Conte I’ve said this exact type of whistle enables refs the ability to have a huge impact on Premier League games.
Reason being the Prem is very press heavy and the degree that refs allow or don’t allow players to come through the back of the person with/receiving the ball, drastically effects the amount a team can press. If you are confident that you can run through the back of someone, you psychologically press harder. The opposite is true when soft calls like that go against you. If you have the ball and know that someone can just go through you, chances are you play safe hot potato the ball away sharpish
I’ve never seen anyone study it but I bet they’d find winning games correlates pretty strongly with fouls called/not called from behind
That's a good point because we all hate var but in reality, it's the way it's used that's the problem.
You’re not going to get some neat bundle of evidence off me, just like I can’t definitively prove”what’s going on in someone’s head in wider society unless they literally spell it out in black and white. That’s the standard you’re asking for because you know bias isn’t that blatant.
That doesn’t mean it’s imaginary. It just means it’s not something you can reduce to some fucking spreadsheet and say - "Hey look I can prove this referee is biased"
...That's not how it works and you know this so we can disagree on whether it’s there and we can argue about examples but pretending that unless it’s explicitly confessed it can’t be discussed is a bit convenient.So at the end of the day we’re going to talk about it regardless if you like it or not, you can carry on sticking your fingers in your ears and turning a blind eye to it and making out that we are sore losers and delusional but that's up to you.
I've posted what I can in here, even got other fans of rival teams coming out and saying that we are reffed differently but nah not conclusive enough obviously
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Likewise the CL final pen. Twat is standing there with his arm out pointing at fuck all. Even now that would still be a penalty.
The reason the ref gave the penalty yesterday was because Gabriel did a fucking pantomime dive that the ref bought it, and blew too soon for VAR to check presumably.
You’re not going to get some neat bundle of evidence off me, just like I can’t definitively prove”what’s going on in someone’s head in wider society unless they literally spell it out in black and white. That’s the standard you’re asking for because you know bias isn’t that blatant.
That doesn’t mean it’s imaginary. It just means it’s not something you can reduce to some fucking spreadsheet and say - "Hey look I can prove this referee is biased"
So at the end of the day we’re going to talk about it regardless if you like it or not, you can carry on sticking your fingers in your ears and turning a blind eye to it and making out that we are sore losers and delusional but that's up to you.
I've posted what I can in here, even got other fans of rival teams coming out and saying that we are reffed differently but nah not conclusive enough obviously
I will happily turn a blind eye to something that is not real.
I literally cannot tell you how many dubious decisions I have seen given this season in every match I watch -
The standard I'm asking for is simply understanding what the word bias means and applying it logically, without applying your own personal Spurs bias, which you seemingly cant do.
I was saying it wasnt the safe ref, lino etc
youre claiming there is a league-wide bias against us involving multiple different officials where our rivals, and only our rivals, are reffed differently to us, but not the 13 other teams in the league who we get the rub of the green constantly against - go read other fans forums.
Either everyone is right and there is a bvias against everyone, or no one is, and reffing, as it has and always will be - is inconsistent.
It, for me, is the stuff of fiction.
I don't trust for a second you can be objective about this
I totally think that the disallowed goal yesterday should have counted. I would not expect a 9 stone weakling to fall like that from that touch yet alone a big strong guy like Gabriel. I also believe we have had some bad decisions recently. Sky are definitely biased towards the Sky 4, Woolwich, Liverpool, MU & Chelsea. The rest suffer because of that. Refs know that if they make a decision against the Sky 4 that it will be scrutinised to death and therefore err on the side of caution for their own good. Even MC suffer especially by the MU supporter Neville who hates them and supports the only other team this year that can stop MC winning the PL. Sky never have any outspoken ex Spurs supporters on the Commentary. I blame Sky as much as the officials and only turn the match on a few minutes before KO, tend to be on the forum rather than listening at HT & frequently turn off on the final whistle.
In the past I did feel that Kane got decisions because he was England Captain but since he has left we get nothing. Refs are not going to listen to Romero.
In the past I did feel that Kane got decisions because he was England Captain but since he has left we get nothing. Refs are not going to listen to Romero.
You’re turning this into a conspiracy argument when that’s not what I’m saying.
If you know how unconscious or conscious bias works then you wouldn't be asking me to prove it or apply it logically, not only in football is bias prevalent it happens in every day life, it's like asking someone to prove or apply logic into thinking knowing that someone is racist knowing that unless they outright admit it or say something blatant, you’re never going to get a clean, courtroom-level proof of what’s going on in their head.
Bias can be unconscious, situational, or influenced by pressure and narrative, officials are human beings and humans are affected by context. We already agree decisions are inconsistent so the question is whether some of that inconsistency follows patterns...that doesn’t require a league wide agenda in how you're trying to spin it or some grand conspiracy against Tottenham, it does though lean into how human decisions actually work under pressure.
This shouldn't even be controversial really because we know it exists, big games, crowd reactions, media narratives, player and club reputations all affect refereeing decisions and I think all clubs are reffed based on reputations, some players are reffed differently to others and I think the media narrative plays into their decision making and a lot of it is based on what I said earlier:
And by the way we as a club can do something about this but we choose not to, we don't stand up for ourselves and don't really contest decisions and make up a fuss about them because we would be well within our rights and can easily use the evidence that I've shown in here - that is how you control the narrative and lean on the officials so they 2nd guess decisions. This is what all the top clubs have done with referees - Fergie used to live by it all the time and referees are coming out and saying that they were scared of SAF and used to give Utd decisions because they didn't want to be called out - this is an extreme example by the way but this leads into my bias argument.
You don’t have to agree there’s bias but calling it fiction without addressing how human decision making actually works isn’t really engaging with my actual argument, at the end of the day we're not going to agree so it's a pointless debate.
Edit - on the vid about Romero I posted, you realise you originally said that other clubs' players are better at diving and buying fouls than ours namely Gabriel, you said that we aren't as good at doing it so I posted a clip of Romero going down from a push and then you followed it up with "is it the same ref, lino" etc...didn't make sense. The point I was making that even if we do try and buy fouls we are still punished hence the example.
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MOTD talking about the disallowed goal.
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1rc71fx/motd_comparing_spurs_disallowed_goal_today_vs/
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1rc71fx/motd_comparing_spurs_disallowed_goal_today_vs/
When you say "since he left, we get nothing", are you talking about goals?
If it's only used to interfere in CERTAIN decisions then it isn't used fairly and is being used to influence results. Use it fairly - it is supposed to ensure the right decisions - or fuck it off.
They want the fans to tell them to fuck it off.
It should never have come to this.
The stupid thing is they haven't even nailed down the ABSOLUTE CERTAIN decisions, like for example whether the ball has gone out of play.
They've concentrated instead on the decisions that even with VAR come down to an individuals interpretation / opinion.
They're drawing imaginary lines on the pitch when they haven't even utilised the actual lines that are permanently marked out.....
I’m not denying unconscious bias exists — of course it does, in football and everywhere else. My point isn’t “refs are robots.” It’s that from that premise you still can’t jump to “there’s a meaningful anti-Spurs bias” without showing it’s directional, persistent, and disproportionate compared with everyone else.
And I’m not asking for “courtroom proof of what’s in a ref’s head.” I’m saying that if Spurs are treated differently, it should show up in patterns across time (across different refs, different venues, different seasons) and it should look very different than what other FANS experience. Otherwise we’re just doing what every fanbase does — remembering the decisions that hurt, discounting the ones that help, and then fitting a story around the feeling. And every fanbase does this - every single one - all the time - and there is nothing materially different about the examples you post and the ones they do.
On the “narrative / crowd / big club pressure” point — I agree those can influence marginal calls. But that’s an argument for systemic inconsistency and context effects, not a specific bias against Spurs. If youre saying “refs are swayed by reputation and pressure,” the likely conclusion is “big clubs may get more benefit of the doubt” — which is different from “Spurs are singled out and then - if you ask any club slightly smaller than us, they will say we get a better rub of the green than them too
All saying we should be more like Fergie is we should play the pressure game more, not that there is a bias against Spurs.
What patterns of evidence do actually you want to see?
Every single piece of evidence that has been presented - you've dismissed it
I have dismissed it as non-discriminatory because they are cherry-picked examples -
If I showed you an equal number of examples this season where we got away with things, would that satisfy you that there’s no bias? If not, then we’re not actually using a standard that can be tested — we’re just arguing from vibe and from an unobjective - i watch spurs more than any other club and so i do not experience football in any other way - view
Take Romero's red vs Man U for his non-red against Brentford.
What about Fernandes' red last season that should never have been given - does that cancel Romero's out? Your argument about Romeros was the bias was against the player and that the ref assumed it was a red instantly because of him, yet a different ref in a different game (Brentford) saw him making what looked like a red card challenge and only booked him with a yellow.
What about Halaand's second goal last season that was ruled out vs the one in the West Ham game - don't they cancel each other out too - do you think Halaand's goal should have stood? Don't Man City have more pressure on the refs than we do?