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Player Lucas Bergvall

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Incredible isn't it?

All this data driven analysis about how a lack of progressive passers will get Spurs relegated and nobody talks about the most obvious explanation for an unprecedented level of injuries over a sustained period of time.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably;

A fucking duck.

Donald Duck Disney GIF
Personally, I think it's the least likeliest explanation. We'd be better served asking about the conditions at the training ground, training methods, playing style. The time these players spend at the training ground absolutely dwarfs any time spent at the stadium; common sense suggests that the issues are likelier to be found at the training ground.

I'd love to see a breakdown of injuries experienced at home vs. away, but to my awareness there hasn't been much of a noticeable distinction, and it absolutely fails to explain the prolonged nature of injuries plaguing our players. Dejan Kulusevski and James Maddison haven't touched our retractable pitch in how long? This suggests errors in diagnostic opinion, initial treatment, and rehabilitation practices.

I think the new metrics about passing strike absolutely at the heart of our injury problems; there can be just no competition with passing being the most efficient method of moving the ball about the pitch and our squad simply lacks players that are competent passers, putting the emphasis on athleticism and physical exertion in order to move the ball. Add in a poor squad that leads to inadequate rotation, and the players just get run into the ground and eventually start to pick up minor strains and injuries that turn into major strains and injuries due to inadequate treatment and rest.
 
Personally, I think it's the least likeliest explanation. We'd be better served asking about the conditions at the training ground, training methods, playing style. The time these players spend at the training ground absolutely dwarfs any time spent at the stadium; common sense suggests that the issues are likelier to be found at the training ground.

I'd love to see a breakdown of injuries experienced at home vs. away, but to my awareness there hasn't been much of a noticeable distinction, and it absolutely fails to explain the prolonged nature of injuries plaguing our players. Dejan Kulusevski and James Maddison haven't touched our retractable pitch in how long? This suggests errors in diagnostic opinion, initial treatment, and rehabilitation practices.

I think the new metrics about passing strike absolutely at the heart of our injury problems; there can be just no competition with passing being the most efficient method of moving the ball about the pitch and our squad simply lacks players that are competent passers, putting the emphasis on athleticism and physical exertion in order to move the ball. Add in a poor squad that leads to inadequate rotation, and the players just get run into the ground and eventually start to pick up minor strains and injuries that turn into major strains and injuries due to inadequate treatment and rest.

In the UK, about 35 - 40 years ago, there was a huge increase in local authorities installing all weather football pitches, for public use, and renting them out by the hour.

About 3-4 years after one of these pitches was installed, close to where I live, a rumour began to circulate that lots of amateur footballers were getting injured while playing on this artificial surface.

It turned out that the pitch had been installed without the correct layers of shock absorbtion and the excessive amount of injuries sustained were believed to be directly correlated to this error.

The surface was taken up and relayed on top of higher quality shock absorbtion material.

The excessive injuries ceased to be a thing.

The retractable pitch at Spurs was the world's first retractable pitch. Madrid have copied Spurs by installing a retractable pitch and their injury levels now mirror Spurs.

Tick tock.
 
Do you rule it out completely as a possible contributing factor?

:gallashmm:
Pretty much, we were playing in the stadium years before the injury crises began occurring, and to that you may state cumulative use over time being the cause, but then how come someone like Porro is rarely injured, and someone like Kudus gets a long term injury straight away?

If it were caused by the pitch, I'd expect to be seeing the same injury over and over, whilst we seem to be having all kinds of injury strike.

It's a nice easy thing to point to when you just have a very surface level look at the matter, but it doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny. Correlation does not equal causation, and even the correlation is tenuous.
 
Pretty much, we were playing in the stadium years before the injury crises began occurring, and to that you may state cumulative use over time being the cause, but then how come someone like Porro is rarely injured, and someone like Kudus gets a long term injury straight away?

If it were caused by the pitch, I'd expect to be seeing the same injury over and over, whilst we seem to be having all kinds of injury strike.

It's a nice easy thing to point to when you just have a very surface level look at the matter, but it doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny. Correlation does not equal causation, and even the correlation is tenuous.

I think you answered your own question there with the reference to the cumulative effect of playing on a surface that may cause injuries.

I would suggest that several current Spurs players, arrived at the club without significant injury problems in their past career, but acquired serious, or long term injuries, after 15 - 20 games playing on the retractable pitch.

This looks like a wear and tear issue on muscles, ligaments and joints to me.

Pedro Porro has to be one of the least physical players Spurs employ. Avoids most physical aspects of the game and often opts for histrionics and play acting while feigning injury. Porro often goes down, seeking a free kick, as soon as he feels any physical contact. He is also continually out of position and avoids sprinting back when caught further up the pitch. The player is an absolute coward so avoiding injury is his M.O.

Porro is the exception rather than the rule.
 
I think you answered your own question there with the reference to the cumulative effect of playing on a surface that may cause injuries.

I would suggest that several current Spurs players, arrived at the club without significant injury problems in their past career, but acquired serious, or long term injuries, after 15 - 20 games playing on the retractable pitch.

This looks like a wear and tear issue on muscles, ligaments and joints to me.

Pedro Porro has to be one of the least physical players Spurs employ. Avoids most physical aspects of the game and often opts for histrionics and play acting while feigning injury. Porro often goes down, seeking a free kick, as soon as he feels any physical contact. He is also continually out of position and avoids sprinting back when caught further up the pitch. The player is an absolute coward so avoiding injury is his M.O.

Porro is the exception rather than the rule.
If the pitch were the cause of, for example, Mickey VDV's injuries last season, then how do you explain his availability for most of this season if the pitch is such a death trap?

I'm sure there's something up, and I lean towards the medics/physios being as incompetent as the rest of our backroom staff, fucking idiots are hiring chancers off of LinkedIn rather than headhunting proper football people.

Also as someone else pointed out, if there is to be an issue with turf, it's far more likely that the training ground would be the culprit, which the players use every day (aside from the weeks off we give them for manager changes...), than the stadium, which they use once a fortnight.
 
If the pitch were the cause of, for example, Mickey VDV's injuries last season, then how do you explain his availability for most of this season if the pitch is such a death trap?

I first thought the pitch was dangerous early on.

I remember watching a game we played at home to Wolves, when it was pissing down with rain, and players from both sides were dropping like flies.

I suspect that the pitch may be particularly dodgy when it has been soaked before a game or by heavy rainfall during a game.

When the pitch is heavy I think players are more susceptable to injury.

The pitch is unnatural so drainage will not be the same.
 
Yeah.

I would accept anything above £30M. He has not really progressed in my opinion.
Maybe Bergvall needs another season?
Id send him on loan first if possible. Hes so fucking talented.

Possibly but in a relegation fight he is mostly just using experience. The one big flaw of Bergvall is similar to how Dembele was pre-Poch he tends to sit on the ball and De Zerbi likes his players to move the ball quickly.

Thats exactly why I’m thinking he’s not that keen.

No, he just didn’t have the time to experiment with him or Gray. Needed experience to grind it out.. a summer with them both and rotated minutes in the league next year and we’ll see their greatness

He played Gray pretty often and made a point of name-checking him regularly.

Bergvall he seemed to almost forget about. Sarr played more.
 
Id send him on loan first if possible. Hes so fucking talented.



Thats exactly why I’m thinking he’s not that keen.



He played Gray pretty often and made a point of name-checking him regularly.

Bergvall he seemed to almost forget about. Sarr played more.

Bergvall might be the strongest most press resistant player we have but that strength means he doesn’t move the ball quick. Dembele was awful at that, used to kill our attacks and Poch coached it out of him. If De Zerbi can coach Bergvall to move the ball quickly and not rely on his dribbling/power he will be excellent but if he can’t then I think it will not end well.
 
Let Brighton, Brentford or Bournemouth have him on loan for a season. Even Sunderland or Coventry. Kid needs to play week in week out in a less pressured environment. Hurzeler, Andrews, Rose, Le Bris or Fat Frank would know how to coach him.
 
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