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Management Vinai Venkatesham - CEO

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Levy would have fucked Frank off around Xmas that's for sure, maybe even before that. He listens to his players because he saw them as assets and they would have ran to him crying about Frank and he would have been getting calls from their agents

Sure he kept Ange on but we were deep in cup comps by the time we stated to show bad form in the league plus the squad were happy with Ange anyway.
Would he have made the right move to save us though? I think Tudor would have come in November, but I think the injury crisis still happens and we still struggle to escape.

Like I said, you can’t just assume that being reactive saves us anymore. There are no more Steve Bruce’s in the league to farm points off. Look at Forest, they had a stronger squad than us and a genuine game changer in Gibbs-White and they still struggled to escape.

I don’t think Levy changes much tbh, except we definitely don’t end up with De Zerbi because Levy doesn’t like giving managers the power RDZ wanted to come.
 
And that was with a front 3 of Richy, Tel and Muani. Give him Kudus, Solanke and Kulusevski and he’d have done better than 60 points.

Its precisely why Im really excited for next season.

A fit Maddison/Kulusevski...

A few players to strengthen key positions...

An actual goalscoring striker....

We could be in for a hell of season

People are talking about consolidating and building back up - I think we can bounce right back into Europe - should be aiming for CL (especially on 1 game a week)
 
Would he have made the right move to save us though? I think Tudor would have come in November, but I think the injury crisis still happens and we still struggle to escape.

Like I said, you can’t just assume that being reactive saves us anymore. There are no more Steve Bruce’s in the league to farm points off. Look at Forest, they had a stronger squad than us and a genuine game changer in Gibbs-White and they still struggled to escape.

I don’t think Levy changes much tbh, except we definitely don’t end up with De Zerbi because Levy doesn’t like giving managers the power RDZ wanted to come.
Very real chance we beat Utd to Carrick, and I think he'd have done a good job

Also, while no RDZ - almost certainly Poch back in the summer

All a sliding doors thing, but I am very confident the season wouldnt have been such a disaster if Levy was in charge
 
Very real chance we beat Utd to Carrick, and I think he'd have done a good job

Also, while no RDZ - almost certainly Poch back in the summer

All a sliding doors thing, but I am very confident the season wouldnt have been such a disaster if Levy was in charge
I don’t think levy moves for Carrick. It’s the kind of thing he would have done in the 2000s but I don’t see post 2018 Levy making that move at all. Paratici was Levy’s guy and Paratici would have recommended Tudor. I also don’t think Carrick would have had the same impact here he had at United. Our squad was a shambles going into the season. His success at United has been about going back to basics and utilising the quality of Bruno, Mbuemo, Cunha, Sesko. Who would he have had here? Very different to what RDZ did with us where he maximised the tactical capabilities of one of the worst built squads in the league to get us over the edge.
 
I don’t think levy moves for Carrick. It’s the kind of thing he would have done in the 2000s but I don’t see post 2018 Levy making that move at all. Paratici was Levy’s guy and Paratici would have recommended Tudor. I also don’t think Carrick would have had the same impact here he had at United. Our squad was a shambles going into the season. His success at United has been about going back to basics and utilising the quality of Bruno, Mbuemo, Cunha, Sesko. Who would he have had here? Very different to what RDZ did with us where he maximised the tactical capabilities of one of the worst built squads in the league to get us over the edge.

Like I said, ifs and buts - sliding doors - and we'll never know

BUT - I would be far more confident of us staying up comfortably this season if Levy were in charge

Vinai clinging onto Frank as long as he did damn near killed us
 
Like I said, ifs and buts - sliding doors - and we'll never know

BUT - I would be far more confident of us staying up comfortably this season if Levy were in charge

Vinai clinging onto Frank as long as he did damn near killed us
Yep and you’ll not hear me argue against the fact that Vinai got it incredibly wrong with a ton of things: keeping Lange, trying to bring back Paratici, keeping Frank. His short term diagnostics were awful this season.

I do not share your confidence that levy would have kept us up comfortably at all though. The league is just built too differently now. The bed for this season was made in the preseason and the previous seasons that levy oversaw. Reactivity doesn’t get you out, if that Forest squad can only muster a 16th place finish then I don’t have confidence that much could have been done with our squad.

What I will credit Vinai for though is that his diagnosis on stuff like performance, wage structure, transfer, training ground etc is absolutely spot on. I see a lot of people calling it waffle in here but it’s absolutely true that maximising performance wasn’t the priority under Levy and I’m glad that’s being openly brought up and addressed.
 
Would he have made the right move to save us though? I think Tudor would have come in November, but I think the injury crisis still happens and we still struggle to escape.

Like I said, you can’t just assume that being reactive saves us anymore. There are no more Steve Bruce’s in the league to farm points off. Look at Forest, they had a stronger squad than us and a genuine game changer in Gibbs-White and they still struggled to escape.

I don’t think Levy changes much tbh, except we definitely don’t end up with De Zerbi because Levy doesn’t like giving managers the power RDZ wanted to come.

Sacking Frank earlier is a proactive move, not a reactive one and I'm pretty sure between him and Paratici they would have done a lot more in January than Lange's pathetic attempt.

As I said he bought Conte and Jose in before so why wouldn't he have thrown the bag at De Zerbi?
 
I do not share your confidence that levy would have kept us up comfortably at all though. The league is just built too differently now. The bed for this season was made in the preseason and the previous seasons that levy oversaw. Reactivity doesn’t get you out, if that Forest squad can only muster a 16th place finish then I don’t have confidence that much could have been done with our squad.
I think you overstate the league.

Sunderland had 4 wins more than us (consider we managed only 3 at home all season) and finished in the EUROPA league places

Palace not considered in trouble at all in 15th = +4 points
Chelsea/Fulham in 10th = +11 points
Liverpool in the CL = +19 points

I didnt think of it much until the other day, only really being concerned about if we stay up or not. But if you take a look at the final table, it speaks to a lot of teams without much between them.

Dont forget Amorim got sacked not long before Frank (and still later than he should have), and Carrick who had only managed in the Championship got them from near us to CL.
 
Sacking Frank earlier is a proactive move, not a reactive one and I'm pretty sure between him and Paratici they would have done a lot more in January than Lange's pathetic attempt.

As I said he bought Conte and Jose in before so why wouldn't he have thrown the bag at De Zerbi?
The proactive move would have been not hiring Frank and having a better summer, anything that happens midseason is reactive.

I personally wouldn’t have backed levy and Paratici to fix the squad in January. The condition we entered the season in was one of the worst built squads in the league. Last season Levy basically threw January away by leaving us incredibly short and only moving for Danso and Tel near the end of the window, we were in the midst of disaster at that point and he still wasn’t moving.

Regardless I’m glad he’s gone. I back us to get stronger from here. I think this summer is going to be better than any of the previous 8 under Levy and we’re going to start moving in the right direction again for the first time in a decade.
 
I think you overstate the league.

Sunderland had 4 wins more than us (consider we managed only 3 at home all season) and finished in the EUROPA league places

Palace not considered in trouble at all in 15th = +4 points
Chelsea/Fulham in 10th = +11 points
Liverpool in the CL = +19 points

I didnt think of it much until the other day, only really being concerned about if we stay up or not. But if you take a look at the final table, it speaks to a lot of teams without much between them.

Dont forget Amorim got sacked not long before Frank (and still later than he should have), and Carrick who had only managed in the Championship got them from near us to CL.
I think you’re underestimating the strength of the league and just how poorly built our squad was.

Under the last 8 years of Levy we neglected technical ability to the point where our squad was one of the worst technical squads in the entire league.

Fully fit the individual quality of Maddison, Kulusevski and Kudus likely gets us out but even the fact that Maddison and Kulusevski ended up missing the entire season and we weren’t properly prepared for it is a poor reflection on how levy was running the club.

Pound for pound against other clubs though we were weaker in most games. We had less technical ability than Forest, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Brighton etc this season. If you neglect technical ability and actual footballers you end up losing games.
 
I think you’re underestimating the strength of the league and just how poorly built our squad was.

Under the last 8 years of Levy we neglected technical ability to the point where our squad was one of the worst technical squads in the entire league.

Fully fit the individual quality of Maddison, Kulusevski and Kudus likely gets us out but even the fact that Maddison and Kulusevski ended up missing the entire season and we weren’t properly prepared for it is a poor reflection on how levy was running the club.

Pound for pound against other clubs though we were weaker in most games. We had less technical ability than Forest, Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, Brighton etc this season. If you neglect technical ability and actual footballers you end up losing games.

I dont disagree the squad has been mismanaged, or that the quality is not where we want it to be.

However, with a crippled, lopsided, mismanaged squad - average RDZs PPG out and we finish level with Liverpool.

I think YOU overestimate the strength of the league.

From Brentford in 9th (first non european spot) to us is 12 points - thats nothing.

Anyway, Im happy to agree to disagree, because we are derailing what was a pretty decent slagging thread on our new exec and his "performance" :franklol:
 
The proactive move would have been not hiring Frank and having a better summer, anything that happens midseason is reactive.

I personally wouldn’t have backed levy and Paratici to fix the squad in January. The condition we entered the season in was one of the worst built squads in the league. Last season Levy basically threw January away by leaving us incredibly short and only moving for Danso and Tel near the end of the window, we were in the midst of disaster at that point and he still wasn’t moving.

Regardless I’m glad he’s gone. I back us to get stronger from here. I think this summer is going to be better than any of the previous 8 under Levy and we’re going to start moving in the right direction again for the first time in a decade.

Well it depends where you want to start your hypothetical scenario, there's an argument to say that Levy wouldn't have sacked Ange and would have kept him on so we might not have even got that Frank appointment

But okay in your scenario if he had hired Frank then I see the exact same scenario what would have happened with Nuno, instead of replacing him with Conte he may have gone for a bigger name or possibly waited until De Zerbi became available, that's the typical Levy playbook...and in that Jan him and Paratici did get in Kulu and Bentancur which saved our season.

All moot anyway.
 
I’m surprised that a lot of you seem to think levy would have saved us this season.

I think a lot of you are clinging onto the 08 season where he was very reactive and got Redknapp and a ton of experience in the January window to get us out.

That doesn’t work anymore, you can’t operate a club by being reactive. If levy’s still here what likely happens is that Paratici gets more power and we get Tudor in November and move for a few players in January, even then I doubt we do too much, levy oversaw a 17th place finish and a sloppy January last year where he allowed a diminished squad to limp through before acting at the end of the window.

There’s no way de Zerbi becomes our manager if levy’s still here, and I also think his reactive actions don’t save us last season. In 08 there were a ton of shit clubs and managers in the league to farm off, that’s not the case anymore. The Steve Bruce’s, Tony pulis, “go out and run” style managers are gone and almost every other club has been proactive for years now while levy let us rot. Forest just about escaped last season and they had a better squad than us, the squad that was built by levy.

Vinai could have done way more, in far from impressed, he shouldn’t have tried to bring Paratici back and should have sacked Lange for a better director immediately, but his diagnosis on the performance part of the club is bang on the money and a lot of us levy outers have been calling it for years.
It feels ridiculous to say given the utter apocalypse of a season we've endured, but I think the chips have actually fallen in a way that's really beneficial to us in the long term.

I think there are some other potential timelines where Levy had all the power and kept Ange in situ after Bilbao and we ended up hiring Frank mid-season as his replacement when he inevitably got sacked. Or we sacked Frank earlier and got in Carrick which meant we ended up not getting De Zerbi. Or we brought in Tudor earlier and he kept us up but then someone else hired De Zerbi in the summer before we could.

Given the current managerial merry go round and who we were ever likely to attract, I'm not sure there's anyone I'd actually prefer to De Zerbi. Maybe Iraola, but De Zerbi feels more Spurs to me. We've managed to stumble arse backwards into a really good manager.
 
I think you overstate the league.

Sunderland had 4 wins more than us (consider we managed only 3 at home all season) and finished in the EUROPA league places

Palace not considered in trouble at all in 15th = +4 points
Chelsea/Fulham in 10th = +11 points
Liverpool in the CL = +19 points

I didnt think of it much until the other day, only really being concerned about if we stay up or not. But if you take a look at the final table, it speaks to a lot of teams without much between them.

Dont forget Amorim got sacked not long before Frank (and still later than he should have), and Carrick who had only managed in the Championship got them from near us to CL.
Yeah it's nuts. We had our worst season in forever (well...1 year tbf haha), had a run of 15 games without a win and were on the brink of relegation yet we were only 4 wins off Europe. And that's with perhaps the worst injury crisis in the club's modern history.

If we'd had a vaguely competent manager and/or a few less key injuries, we could've very easily been in mid-table or the European race.

There were so, so many winnable games where we just rolled over, committed self-sabotage or got fecked by the refs.

It does fill me with some confidence that this really shouldn't happen again. All the stars aligned against us this year and we still managed to somehow survive.
 
Yeah it's nuts. We had our worst season in forever (well...1 year tbf haha), had a run of 15 games without a win and were on the brink of relegation yet we were only 4 wins off Europe. And that's with perhaps the worst injury crisis in the club's modern history.

If we'd had a vaguely competent manager and/or a few less key injuries, we could've very easily been in mid-table or the European race.

There were so, so many winnable games where we just rolled over, committed self-sabotage or got fecked by the refs.

It does fill me with some confidence that this really shouldn't happen again. All the stars aligned against us this year and we still managed to somehow survive.

Haha we had 3 less wins than Bournemouth who finished 6th, THREE

It won't take a momentous jump to go from 17th to 6th next season, Utd did it with no European football.
 


nothing more toxic than people who say "I haven't failed - it's was because the previous person did it" because that is just gerrymandering to the noisy protest side.
Nothing that happened prior to September meant they couldn't see the damage of keeping frank, or appointing tudor, of selling our backup winger in an injury crisis, or not sending RKM back when we had a golden chance, of signing a Conor Gallagher we didn't need etc etc.

All VV has really succeeded in is damaging his own credibility. Literally could have said it's been a unique season with unique challenges, some unprecedented, that they're all learning from.
 
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