Silva has done so well there, the only way is down IMO
Im not Silvas biggest fan, but the football isnt bad with him (pragmatic, but still can play a bit)
Frank would suck the life out of them
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Manager Thomas Frank
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Silva has done so well there, the only way is down IMO
Im not Silvas biggest fan, but the football isnt bad with him (pragmatic, but still can play a bit)
Frank would suck the life out of them
Friggin spot on, brother.
I dunno, I kinda feel like Frank is a neutral beige manager. Neither makes you worse, nor better. He's just there.
Brentford did just about the same without him this season as they did last season with him.
Spurs did just about the same with him this season as we did without him last season.
Maybe with other clubs but he made us worse for sure. Maybe not from a table position because he was not here long enough but from a style, competitiveness and attractiveness point of view he did. Not to mention the morale with players, fans and the club in general.
I would argue that he didn't really make the morale of the fans and club worse, simply that the morale before he arrived did not correlate with reality.
The reality is we were no worse from a results perspective this season than the last 18 months of Ange. Ange had a flying 10 match start which buoyed the league position in his first season - this gave people a false sense of positivity, despite the fact we had been a weekly calamity since Chelse in Nov.
Then his last season we were utter shite, but went all in and managed to scrape the EL title. Winning a trophy always lifts spirits.
But underneath the bonnet, we were as shite as ever.
Now, the football was dreadful. But there's not really much there to work with in terms of goal scoring thrust, either. Solanke isn't worth what we paid, Maddison was hurt, Kulusevski was hurt, Kudus got hurt, Simons needed time to bed in (and got hurt), Richarlison isn't good enough. And the midfield is maybe worse than the attackers.
Which brings me back to my point. Frank is neutral - like a mirror he just shows you what you are. Certainly he wasn't a "boring" manager at Brentford. But with Spurs, with no attacking talent, that was what we got. Ange had only managed to produce an attacking side through utter antagonistic disdain for any semblance of defencive organization.
I always think vdv and spence not shaking his hand post match. They didnt rate him. His football was crap and behind the times.
I understand you're a New Manager Bounce truther, but even still you have to acknowledge that a pulverized, threadbare version of the squad Frank was leading to certain relegation suddenly looked like they could play some football under De Zerbi and the results might have been even better than the huge bounce they were bar a couple of late frustrating errors.
The true Ange wasn't the sugar high of the first ten games nor the throwing away of the league at the end. It was the 50-or-so games in the middle that were just sort of blah 9th place-ish. That's where we were, with another baby step downward taken since then.
De Zerbi with no European distraction ought to bring another sugar high, but the rot lies above him.
I think De Zerbi is a plus manager - he adds value to a squad. That's the difference.
I don't think anyone really knows how good Frank is tbh. He did a v.solid job in one very particular set-up and then a fucking awful job at Spurs.
His next job will be the one that shows if he's truly just a by-product of Brentford's brilliant in-house organisation or a competent football manager that has the personality to imprint himself and take control of a different club. One thing's for sure: he's not remotely suited to managing a big club or playing positive football
De Zerbi demonstrated in 7 games that it wasn't solely the quality of the squad that was the issue. He took the most abject looking, injury-ravaged, broken Spurs team I've literally ever seen and made them functional, so the idea that Frank had nothing to work with at all doesn't really hold water. Frank started the season with a stronger squad than RDZ ended it with and had a full pre-season to work with the players too. He was a net-negative and I think he underachieved given the tools at his disposal.
Such great players like Gray, Tel, and Solanke.
I think the Mbuemo deal fell through because we cheaped out on the wages as usual, and I don't think we were ever in for Wissa. But yeah, was not a good look that Norgaard didn't want to follow his manager.
I kinda hope he gets that job as it will confirm once and for all if he's simply a bit of an over-promoted fraud or if Spurs were just a bad fit for him.
If he's actually a decent manager, Fulham should be a good fit for him. Fairly low expectations, no Europe, low-maintenance dressing room, a few promising young players (King, Bobb, Kevin) and a reasonable core. If he flops there then we know he's truly a lame duck.
100% he made us worse, damn near destroyed us.
And, 100%, Brentford did better this year than he ever did.
I know our clubs a mess as well, but add the context of RDZ coming in and (while hamstrung by Franks season) outperforming Frank by LEVELS and INSTANTLY speaks volumes
Add to that the Brentford set piece coach, not even a senior coach, never managed before - took over and outperformed him?
Speaks volumes...
I think we do!
We have had some poor managers before, some ill suited ones, some that should have been great and disappointed...
Frank is the only one I genuinely consider a fraud
This I agree with, and personally I expect Franks career to go the way of other Brentford greats preceeding him
Smith, Rosler, Warburton....
Well we know he's a fucking awful manager of a club with our expectations. And tbh I think you're right and with time he'll be proven to be a fraud.100% he made us worse, damn near destroyed us.
And, 100%, Brentford did better this year than he ever did.
I know our clubs a mess as well, but add the context of RDZ coming in and (while hamstrung by Franks season) outperforming Frank by LEVELS and INSTANTLY speaks volumes
Add to that the Brentford set piece coach, not even a senior coach, never managed before - took over and outperformed him?
Speaks volumes...
I think we do!
We have had some poor managers before, some ill suited ones, some that should have been great and disappointed...
Frank is the only one I genuinely consider a fraud
This I agree with, and personally I expect Franks career to go the way of other Brentford greats preceeding him
Smith, Rosler, Warburton....
However you still gotta reapect the job he did at Brentford - getting a club with their resources promoted and made em a PL staple. Maybe a collective effort but impressive nonetheless. Until he shits the bed in his next job there's still a part of me that wonders if he'd do OK at a club that matches his (lack of) ambition.
Time will tell, but honestly I thin thats the way it will go
Ive come to think Brentford are a bit of an oddity.
Any other club doing what they did? Absolutely, 100%, I would agree with you
Brentford though? I think "the machine" is a far greater factor than "the manager"
Hence every one that came before disappeared into obscurity
And Keith Andrews following Frank and doing better? The guy who puts the cones out? It just kind of proves that for me...
Last season Brentford, with Frank, finished 10th with 10th with 56 points from 66 GF and 57 GA.
This season Brentford, without Frank, finished 9th with 53 points from 55 GF and 52 GA.
Last season Spurs, without Frank, finished 17th with 38 points from 64 GF and 65 GA
This season Spurs, with Frank, finished 17th with 41 points from 48 GF and 57 GA.
But, at Frank's dismissal Spurs were on track for... (extrapolated to 38 matches from 26 played) 17th with 42 points from 53 GF and 54 GA.
Frank is a nothing burger of a manager. He doesn't make you better or worse, he just is what he is. He's neither a good manager, nor a bad manager. He's just there.
De Zerbi is a good manager, he makes his squad better.
We're better off with De Zerbi.
That I agree with
Frank? I think he is a negative, not a neutral
Football managers are much confidence grifters. A lot of what they actually do is smoke and mirrors. Frank might land on his feet and do passably well at his next job.
But what’s 100% certain is that he’s a coward who could not face up to a difficult situation.
But what’s 100% certain is that he’s a coward who could not face up to a difficult situation.
Yeah but to play Devil's Advocate, maybe Andrews is benefitting from the foundations Frank helped put into place. Martinez improved on Moyes at Everton initially then fell off a cliff after 2 seasons cos he couldn't maintain it.
I reckon in all probability you're right, I just want more evidence to prove it. Hence I'm so curious about how Frank does in his next gig.
Yeah Frank was gonna get us relegated. That's not an 'average job' even with our squad/injury issues.
If you can't make a team better then whats even the point of you as a manager?