Sizes of pitches

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eanN17

Supporter
There seem to be a growing belief that the size of the pitch is what has cost us the points this year. I have had a look at the 10(11) biggest pitches in the league and compared it with the total amount of away points.

1. The KCOM - Hull City. 7300 m² (numbers vary, likely to be 7140 this season) Not played yet.
2. The Riverside - Boro. 7245m². 1-2 Win
3. The Stadium of Light - Sunderland. 7140m². 0-0 Draw
3. The Liberty Stadium - Swansea. 7140m². 1-3 Win.
3. The Vitality Stadium - Bournemouth. 7140m². 0-0 Draw.
3. The Etihad Stadium - Manchester City. 7140m². 2-2 Draw.
3. Old Trafford - Manchester United. 7140m². 1-0 Defeat.
3. The Hawthornes - West Brom. 7140m². 1-1 Draw.
3. The Emirates Stadium - Gooners. 7140m². 1-1 Draw
3. Vicarage Road - Watford. 7140m². 1-4. Win.
3. London Stadium - West Ham. 7140m². 1-0 Defeat.
...
Wembley 7245m². Same size as The Riverside.
White Hart Lane. 6700m²
..

From the 10 of 11 games (Hull still to come) of the biggest pitches in the league we have won 3, lost 2 and had 5 draws, with a 13 goals scored and 9 conceded. 11 points from those games would mean 20,9 away points over a season.
Our away form so far this season have given us 7 games won, 6 draws and 4 defeats from 17 games (two remaining vs Hull and Leicester), in total 27 points. Over a season that would give us 30,17 points.
Last season our away form was much better. On our travels last season we collected 34 points. If we win our two remaing games we will get close to that with 33 games, and the above stat would also be improved with a win on the biggest pitch of them all, vs Hull. If we win there we would have 14 points from 11 games, which would give us 24 away points from a season.
Finally. How were the results against the same teams (with the biggest grounds) last season.

1. Hull. Not in PL
2. Boro. Not in PL.
3. Sunderland. 0-1. Win
3. Swans. 2-2. Draw
3. Bournemouth. 1-5 Win
3. M City. 1-2. Win
3. M Utd 1-0 Defeat
3. WBA. 1-1. Draw
3. Gooners. 1-1. Draw
3. Watford. 1-2. Win
3. West Ham. 1-0. Defeat
Carrow Road (Norwich City) is 7072m², Newcastle's pitch is 7140m² and Villa Park the same.
We lost 5-1 to Newcastle (yuk..) and beat Villa 0-2.

Out of those 11 games we had 3 defeats, with 5 wins and 3 draws, which would have given us 18 points from 11 games, or 31,09 points over a season. Slightly lower than the total away points collection.
The data size is probably to small to make any sort of call, but there you go. I just think that it has all to do with an away form that needs to get better if we want to challenge for the title next season, but the numbers show that we perform slightly worse on the biggest pitches than the smaller in the Premier League.

I'd suggest we use that "Wembley sized"-pitch well in the summer.
 
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There seem to be a growing belief that the size of the pitch is what has cost us the points this year. I have had a look at the 10(11) biggest pitches in the league and compared it with the total amount of away points.

1. The KCOM - Hull City. 7300 m² Not played yet.
2. The Riverside - Boro. 7245m². 1-2 Win
3. The Stadium of Light - Sunderland. 7140m². 0-0 Draw
3. The Liberty Stadium - Swansea. 7140m². 1-3 Win.
3. The Vitality Stadium - Bournemouth. 7140m². 0-0 Draw.
3. The Etihad Stadium - Manchester City. 7140m². 2-2 Draw.
3. Old Trafford - Manchester United. 7140m². 1-0 Defeat.
3. The Hawthornes - West Brom. 7140m². 1-1 Draw.
3. The Emirates Stadium - Gooners. 7140m². 1-1 Draw
3. Vicarage Road - Watford. 7140m². 1-4. Win.
3. London Stadium - West Ham. 7140m². 1-0 Defeat.
...
Wembley 7245m². Same size as The Riverside.
White Hart Lane. 6700m²
..

From the 10 of 11 games (Hull still to come) of the biggest pitches in the league we have won 3, lost 2 and had 5 draws, with a 13 goals scored and 9 conceded. 11 points from those games would mean 20,9 away points over a season.
Our away form so far this season have given us 7 games won, 6 draws and 4 defeats from 17 games (two remaining vs Hull and Leicester), in total 27 points. Over a season that would give us 30,17 points.
Last season our away form was much better. On our travels last season we collected 34 points. If we win our two remaing games we will get close to that with 33 games, and the above stat would also be improved with a win on the biggest pitch of them all, vs Hull. If we win there we would have 14 points from 11 games, which would give us 24 away points from a season.
Finally. How were the results against the same teams (with the biggest grounds) last season.

1. Hull. Not in PL
2. Boro. Not in PL.
3. Sunderland. 0-1. Win
3. Swans. 2-2. Draw
3. Bournemouth. 1-5 Win
3. M City. 1-2. Win
3. M Utd 1-0 Defeat
3. WBA. 1-1. Draw
3. Gooners. 1-1. Draw
3. Watford. 1-2. Win
3. West Ham. 1-0. Defeat
Carrow Road (Norwich City) is 7072m², Newcastle's pitch is 7140m² and Villa Park the same.
We lost 5-1 to Newcastle (yuk..) and beat Villa 0-2.

Out of those 11 games we had 3 defeats, with 5 wins and 3 draws, which would have given us 18 points from 11 games, or 31,09 points over a season. Slightly lower than the total away points collection.
The data size is probably to small to make any sort of call, but there you go. I just think that it has all to do with an away form that needs to get better if we want to challenge for the title next season, but the numbers show that we perform slightly worse on the biggest pitches than the smaller in the Premier League.

I'd suggest we use that "Wembley sized"-pitch well in the summer.
Take a bow son, fair play. Good knowledge/info.
:adesalute:
 
I read somewhere yesterday that Spurs can change the size of the pitch to suit their needs.
Being that they will be the home side at Wembley.
 
As for the new stadium we will have a 105mx68m pitch which means it will be like any other new stadium,
7140 m²

Above we can see that the current Wembley pitch is 7245 m² (105mx69m), so 1 metre wider than the norm.
We should change it to the new WHL figures 105mx68m to prepare for the following year.
 

Juicy Sushi

Evil Numbers Enthusiast
That is some solid research. I think it is hard to say if we really do have a problem because we've had some key injuries during some of these games. That said, I think our more recent big pitch performances have shown improvement, so I think it has been a learning process. I think we now have a better handle on how to apply our system on big pitches.
 

eanN17

Supporter
That is some solid research. I think it is hard to say if we really do have a problem because we've had some key injuries during some of these games. That said, I think our more recent big pitch performances have shown improvement, so I think it has been a learning process. I think we now have a better handle on how to apply our system on big pitches.

Certainly the performances vs Gent and Chelsea were really encouraging, if not the results.

We'll get there.
 

eanN17

Supporter
I feel like the pitch size "problem" is kind of a myth (maybe a self-fulfilling one)...the differences are rather small when you consider it's in cubic metres and I am very skeptical a 2.5 metres in each half is what made us play worse in Wembley...

I take it you mean square and not cubic metres.

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eanN17

Supporter
Are you not allowed to adjust the size of the pitch to suit you? If I remember correctly Rangers did under souness for a European game ? But that was years ago and in European competition!

We need to make sure that the pitch meets the UEFA requirements.

For UEFA Club Competitions the pitch must measure 105 metres in length by 68 metres in breadth exactly. If for technical reasons of a construction related nature it is impossible to achieve the required dimensions a UEFA Club Licence may nevertheless be granted provided that the pitch is minimum 100 metres to maximum 105 metres in length by minimum 64 metres to maximum 68 metres in breadth.”

68 x 105 metres is 7140 square metres, so that's why all the new grounds meet the requirements.
 
I think we can, and possibly should.
But has been mentioned before on here somewhere, if we reduce the size of Wembley to match that of the old WHL, then the crowd will feel even further away from the pitch, and it may have an adverse affect on what little atmosphere there is already!
 

eanN17

Supporter
As for the new stadium we will have a 105mx68m pitch which means it will be like any other new stadium,
7140 m²

Above we can see that the current Wembley pitch is 7245 m² (105mx69m), so 1 metre wider than the norm.
 
I feel like the pitch size "problem" is kind of a myth (maybe a self-fulfilling one)...the differences are rather small when you consider it's in cubic metres and I am very skeptical a 2.5 metres in each half is what made us play worse in Wembley...
 
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