I miss the Northumberland Arms. My pre-match pint for many years.
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Interesting point. I don't condone it in circumstances in which it is meant as a derogatory slur. And it shouldn't be condoned if it offends a proportion of our fan base. If it is repossession of a term that only became an insult in anti Semitic circles, then can it be properly argued as a positive "spin" on what had become a negative word?
It may be just in my head, but I think there is a difference between being part of "the Yid army" at a football match & being called a "Yid ****". You are, however, right to feel offended by it, given the negative feelings it evokes in your memories & your parents/grandparents. I don't think anyone could be insensitive to that.
:dierpochhug:
I wouldn't say I am offended by it. I understand that, for the most point, it is not used in an attempt to offend. But I am conscious of those it has offended. I also think it helps to indirectly fuel the anti-semitic abuse that is still thrown at the club and it's fans.
I know many consider this a settled debate because the police are not currently prosecuting and the club tolerates it, but I think that is in part due to the significant shrinking of the Jewish population within the club's fan base and in the UK in general.
I'm not really trying to reopen the Yid debate (one that I don't think has ever really been definitively settled). I was more interested about intent and what is clear cut and what is not. A word, after all, is entirely depend on the social context of it's use.
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I got off the W3 at 14:50 and had a wander up the high road to see if there were any touts about(the fella i was with didn't have a ticket).There were traffic Police, 3 normal police and a meat waggon full of the robo cop type..So lets say 25 bodies outside the pub.10 minutes later 120-150 hammers turn up and not a cozzer in sight?! Something didnt then and still doesn't sit right with me over the whole thing.
I still think the Police allowed them to smash up the bank that day.
I got off the W3 at 14:50 and had a wander up the high road to see if there were any touts about(the fella i was with didn't have a ticket).There were traffic Police, 3 normal police and a meat waggon full of the robo cop type..So lets say 25 bodies outside the pub.10 minutes later 120-150 hammers turn up and not a cozzer in sight?! Something didnt then and still doesn't sit right with me over the whole thing.
Of course it is. I'd prefer the use of the word to celebrate being part of an exclusive & elite group of fans, rather than to denigrate and exclude a racial group. It's all about context & always has been, whether it's the "Y" word or the "N" word, or some other word.
Spurs fans have turned the word into a positive (in my view)- but whether that was purely by design is perhaps bollocks as you say. And it doesn't surprise me that a number of people still remain very uneasy with its use.
A very emotive subject, indeed.
I take the word pikey to be a class / status insult rather than a racist one - similar saying Scousers don't have jobs etc
You'd be wrong though. It's a derogatory & racist term levelled at travellers. Plenty of caravan references in the Spam thread too.
I assume he means the manner in which it is used. I think that he has a valid point, which I touched on above, that much of it's use is not motivated by the target's ethnicity, but rather their perceived class status.
To a Roma gypsy, it's as insulting as a Jew being called a "Yid". Again, depends on the context, but it's not a nice word to describe people.
Couldn't agree more. We should really stop throwing stones in glass houses. I am not going to act holier than thou and say I haven't partook in singing some songs that I really should be ashamed of.
Judas, Adebayor, Wenger (pedo), <removed>s, Pikeys I can go on. BUt it does make us look like whinging little hypocrites when we complain about the same abuse.
Can confirm that they don't like being called a pikey. I've only ever called a traveler a pikey if I thought I could win the fight. Or if I had a hammer within hands reach. Being honest, I've had bad experiences with travelers and I don't like them as people. A law unto themselves and utter cunts for the most part, the country would be a better place without them really.
Does singing a song about Judas, a player who we hate and despise really mean as much as signing racist chants about a player who has no relevance to us? If we were to start calling Wilfried Bony a nagger then it is the same, but as a club we are above that. It's not fair to target a player based on their race, but on their actions it is somewhat different I feel.
Got to love how Pikey and Chav are North Kent terms of abuse adopted nationally....
"The Oxford English Dictionary traced the earliest use of "pikey" to The Times in August 1838, which referred to strangers who had come to the Isle of Sheppey as "pikey-men".
In 1887, W. D. Parish and W. F. Shaw in the Dictionary of Kentish Dialect recorded the use of the word to mean "a turnpike traveller; a vagabond; and so generally a low fellow"
"1-0 to tha bad guys"
I agree with what your saying to a certain extent, but the no noise from the likely boys was aimed generally at the Millwall fans, the abuse at Son was all of there fans aimed at 1 particular person of Korean decent so it is a bit different.....
Feels like son was being picked on by 4000 fans, so it's very indvuidal, where as our chant was at there fans in general, mind you it can get all very PC these days, but I couldn't understand why they were booing son from the off just because he is Korean? So then to add the chants after that does make them out to be racist cunts, but son repaid them in the best way with a hatrick!
Just like anything it is down to interpretation and making yourself/ourselves feel justified or less scummy about what we sing. Just because Campbell is a cunt doesn't make what we sing any less distasteful or homophobic/racist etc..
And I am certainly not PC brigade I have sung almost all of the songs I have mentioned at one time or another just saying fact is we don't exactly have a choir boy image.
I really don't disagree with anything you have said either. I would not single out another player for their ethnicity. But it all sounds a bit well our songs are not AS BAD as the ones they sung. It boils down again to justifying our actions. And even as I type that I know I sang the Adebayor song at one point even though now it makes me cringe to think I did.
