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Transfers January 2020 transfer thread

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Reidy said:
The chairman should trust his manager to build the squad. A chairman should have fuck all to do with the playing side.

I think Poch wanted to go big but Levy was holding back. The CL final forced Levy's hand, expectations had been raised and cutting corners wasn't an option.

And yet Jack Clarke...
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Poch had a pretty abhorrent record of identifying talent. He also brought one player through the youth academy is 5 years (Winks). Almost the entire core of Poch’s best team (2015-2018) consisted of players that were at Spurs prior to his first match.

Managers should be part of the conversation, clearly, but they should be more concerned with results than scouting the Continent for talent. They can’t dedicate the time needed and they don’t always have the long term vision needed.
 
BF3 said:
There’s enough stories (and results) to assume that our recruiting policy from 2016-2019 was shambles. Poch being inflexible in his squad demands, Levy being too focused on the stadium to provide ample attention to the squad as well as his unwillingness to yield responsibilities to a DoF. The cavalcade of players that we’ve been legitimately linked to in the past 3 years could probably field a competitive premier league team.

The only reason we seem capable of recruitment currently is Mourinho and his myriad of connections in Europe. If somehow he forces Levy to sign a DoF (Campos) and we learn from the success of Liverpool and their recruitment policy, then it will all be worth it.
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I would not bet on the club learning anything we heard before that lessons had been learnt and yet here we are back to early ENIC days of mid table performances, so I would adjust your expectations accordingly because this is all happening under the owners leadership their vision for the club.
 
skywalker68 said:
I would not bet on the club learning anything we heard before that lessons had been learnt and yet here we are back to early ENIC days of mid table performances, so I would adjust your expectations accordingly because this is all happening under the owners leadership their vision for the club.
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I don’t have expectations, frankly. There’s as much a chance of a Levy digging in his heels as seeing the light. Maybe missing out of the CL will set off some alarm bells. It’s not just bad bounces that separate us from the upper echelon, and it’s not hard to see why some clubs are more successful. Money, yes, but club management as well.

We seem to be lacking key personnel in important positions. Tottenham have the 8th highest turnover yet likely have a back room and administration staff of a mid table club. I would say Levy “not spending on transfers” is less of a problem than our infrastructure. In that sense, hopefully Levy sees it as a the next step. Training facilities, then stadium, now personnel to support it all. That alignment is present in clubs of all sizes, and generally those clubs are the most successful.
 
BF3 said:
Poch had a pretty abhorrent record of identifying talent. He also brought one player through the youth academy is 5 years (Winks). Almost the entire core of Poch’s best team (2015-2018) consisted of players that were at Spurs prior to his first match.

Managers should be part of the conversation, clearly, but they should be more concerned with results than scouting the Continent for talent. They can’t dedicate the time needed and they don’t always have the long term vision needed.
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Thats fair, but you really need what you are doing if you are looking to be the man going between a manager and a chairman who have very different priorities. Only a manager will know what his preferred formation is and the type of player he'll need to make it work.

Perhaps Hitchen isn't what we need either.

Ultimately we bring in a DOF, a manager with a clear plan what he wants and then Levy funds what we need.

Poch lost his way in summer 2017 and we went kinda downwards since, plunging like lemmings since last February. Mourinho is picking his favourites and isn't changing things when it's not working. Forget giving him 12 weeks, certain players get dropped after 1 mistake while offers get picked regardless of form or performance.
 
Reidy said:
The chairman should trust his manager to build the squad. A chairman should have fuck all to do with the playing side.

I think Poch wanted to go big but Levy was holding back. The CL final forced Levy's hand, expectations had been raised and cutting corners wasn't an option.

And yet Jack Clarke...
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Liverpool look like they have recruited te best over the last 5/6 years.

Yet Klopp is not in charge of transfers, they have a Sporting Director/DoF (who incidentally spent about 4 years at Spurs about 7 or 8 years ago).

That person has sole charge over scouting and an alalytice department and delivers the players in and out - to the exent that Klopp who didnt want Salah was given Salah and told to play him. I think Klopp is now rather glad and would admit his DoF got it right.

Ley would like a DoF, its Poch who turned it down and whilst Poch coaching the players has to be admire his ability to judge players (which is a different skill set) is not.

Look at the transfers in over the last 5 years - other than Son, Alderweireld and Dele (forced into Spurs by DAvid Pleat) pretty much nobody else is/should be first team regulars. And Pach's first team was mainly comprised of players who were here before he was. He brought almost nobody in - its telling that we had the youngest first team when he arrived, we now have a first team with average age which is older than at least half the PL.

Just as a last example - Japhet Tanganga. Ignored by Poch until last pre-season, played well in all 4 pre season matches, but then put on ice despite our defensive problems until Mouhino came. Yet Poch could (and should have) used him earlier this season.

So the transfer dealings should NOT be the sole preserve of a manager - we need a professional DoF in.
 
ArcspacE said:
I feel like even if Levy sold Kane to Woolwich for massive profit the likes of Airfixx Airfixx would still defend him on here. He really is Teflon Dan
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There are a lot of folks here who have a deep ideological commitment to the IDEA of what Daniel Levy represents. They view the ENIC project as a diametric opposite of the City/Chelsea way, opposition to which is their deepest moral commitment in football.

I don't share that moral framework, but I also find their notional Levy to be quite some distance from the man himself. Far from being a heroic lone warrior against megabucks modern football, he's one of the leaders and great innovators in that space.
 
Reidy said:
The chairman should trust his manager to build the squad. A chairman should have fuck all to do with the playing side.

I think Poch wanted to go big but Levy was holding back. The CL final forced Levy's hand, expectations had been raised and cutting corners wasn't an option.

And yet Jack Clarke...
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And Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon....

The notion of trusting managers to build sides is a completely unworkable and outdated concept.

Managers can’t scout and analyse players from all over Europe, they have no knowledge of the club’s complex financial situation, and will rarely be at the club longer than the contract of any player they sign.

Chairman sets financial parameters and with DOF sets sporting objectives and model, for playing style, recruitment, coaching and academy coaching.

the DOF then makes sure that head coach, recruitment and academy integration is continually in good sync.

Head coach has input but he’s recruited to match the squad and footballing model/ethos, not the other way round, so that when it all goes pear, and you hire a completely different manager - you don’t have to shift out everyone and start all over again.
 
BF3 said:
I don’t have expectations, frankly. There’s as much a chance of a Levy digging in his heels as seeing the light. Maybe missing out of the CL will set off some alarm bells. It’s not just bad bounces that separate us from the upper echelon, and it’s not hard to see why some clubs are more successful. Money, yes, but club management as well.

We seem to be lacking key personnel in important positions. Tottenham have the 8th highest turnover yet likely have a back room and administration staff of a mid table club. I would say Levy “not spending on transfers” is less of a problem than our infrastructure. In that sense, hopefully Levy sees it as a the next step. Training facilities, then stadium, now personnel to support it all. That alignment is present in clubs of all sizes, and generally those clubs are the most successful.
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Revenue is their driver I can see us breaking the Europe's top four but remaining mid table spenders.
 
BF3 said:
I don’t have expectations, frankly. There’s as much a chance of a Levy digging in his heels as seeing the light. Maybe missing out of the CL will set off some alarm bells. It’s not just bad bounces that separate us from the upper echelon, and it’s not hard to see why some clubs are more successful. Money, yes, but club management as well.

We seem to be lacking key personnel in important positions. Tottenham have the 8th highest turnover yet likely have a back room and administration staff of a mid table club. I would say Levy “not spending on transfers” is less of a problem than our infrastructure. In that sense, hopefully Levy sees it as a the next step. Training facilities, then stadium, now personnel to support it all. That alignment is present in clubs of all sizes, and generally those clubs are the most successful.
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Absolutely!

Sort the scouting out and get a DOF.
 
FightingIllini said:
There are a lot of folks here who have a deep ideological commitment to the IDEA of what Daniel Levy represents. They view the ENIC project as a diametric opposite of the City/Chelsea way, opposition to which is their deepest moral commitment in football.

I don't share that moral framework, but I also find their notional Levy to be quite some distance from the man himself. Far from being a heroic lone warrior against megabucks modern football, he's one of the leaders and great innovators in that space.
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He’s only in it to maximise returns on investment and profit for the shareholders. End of.
 
bus-conductor said:
Exactly the reason why someone like Rebic makes more sense and Piatek makes no sense for us either.
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If we sign him on a loan deal with an option to buy, I shall attempt to carry the burden with all the patience of Job. However, if we sign him on a loan deal with an obligation to buy, I am going on the fucking rampage. As one pundit was heard to remark, "He scores goals. And that's all he does. He is a passenger when you do not have possession." We'll end up trying to sell him to some Turkish outfit for 25 footballs.

His link-up play is not worth a wank. We already have a team full of snails and struggle to create quality chances. Ask Harry Kane if he gets good service in this team.
 
superstaryid said:
Levy offered to spend peanuts but Poch didn't want monkeys is the most likely scenario

In your deluded world you probably think Levy offered Poch the earth but Poch was desperate to see the club make World Record profits much to the annoyance of Levy!

Fuck off Airheadd you absolute bawbag.
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Lol... State of you, frothy twat.

"Peanuts" like the 60m we subsequently spent at CM on Ndombele?
 
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Anfield's steps to domination: Putting the right man in charge

Liverpool have waited 30 years to lift the Premier League and now they are on the brink of finally doing so. Not to mention, three trophies in 2019 including their sixth European Cup by beating Tottenham.
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Signing smart by understanding big data
English football mocked when Henry and Werner talked enthusiastically about how baseball had been transformed by Billy Beane's Moneyball and a new wave of perplexing stats, and how, in 2004, it helped them end the 86 years without a World Series at the Red Sox.

Most saw them as naïve owners about to be fleeced by an idea that made for a great Hollywood movie but wouldn't fit English football. Liverpool hired Ian Graham, a Cambridge University physics PhD, from Spurs and Michael Edwards, also from Tottenham, just as Gordon took over.

Former sporting director Damien Comolli, who had worked with them, said they were the best in what was then a niche activity. Graham writes his own statistical metrics to outperform rivals.

Edwards applies the analysis to a wider canvas. The headline successes are Philippe Coutinho, signed for £8.5million and sold for £142m — enabling the signings of Virgil van Dijk and Allison — and taking a chance on Chelsea reject Mo Salah for £34m in 2017.

But Graham's favourite signing is Andy Robertson for £8m, who was part of the worst defence in the Premier League at Hull City but is now in UEFA's team of the year. Gordon identified Graham and Edwards's talent, empowered them and promoted them. Graham is director of research and Edwards is sporting director.
 
skywalker68 said:
Revenue is their driver I can see us breaking the Europe's top four but remaining mid table spenders.
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Profit/ (Loss) since ENIC took over (£000)

112,953 - 2018
36,185 - 2017
33,037 - 2016
9,396 - 2015
65,261 - 2014
1,528 - 2013
(4,283) - 2012
669 - 2011
(6,647) - 2010
23,164 - 2009
969 - 2008
19,158 - 2007
(1,575) - 2006
4,104 - 2005
(2,692) - 2004
(6,425) - 2003
467 - 2002
(2,495) - 2001
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£282,774,000 2001-2018

6 out of 18 seasons we've made a loss, 3 of those we didn't post profits higher than £1m, a further 3 of those we posted profits that didn't break £10m and a further 2 of those we didn't break the £25m ceiling.

In total 14 out of 18 years under ENIC we never posted anything higher than £25m. Take away last seasons figures, a genuinely huge one compared to anything we've experienced and we are on £169,821,000 retained over a near on two decade spell. Divide that across the 17 seasons accumulated and we post an average profit of £9.98m a season. Last seasons numbers and this seasons forecasted seriously skew the consistent pattern of money under ENIC. Take away the Champions League seasons and the Bale money and the club pretty much retains next to nothing (without the 2018,2017,2016 & 2014 numbers we average a retained profit of £2.52m per season across 14 seasons). 2001-2013 we averaged less than £2m retained for the coffers (£1.995m, hardly mega money really on average across a 13 year spell pre build up to Poch era)

We are forecasted to post record revenue numbers so I assume we'll probably post a further £150m in profit so realistically we are sitting on about £432,774 of profit now but that won't include transfers made after 30 June 2019 which I think most were.

The last time there was a big TV deal paid out across PL teams we hardly spent. We,let others blow their money and sat on ours until the market simmered down. Levy and ENIC have previous doing so and whilst we are a money cautious team, we definitely don't sit on it as much as people believe. 2001-2017 we averaged £10m profit retained, (a Jack Clarke signing each season basically)
 
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