Tottenham vs City - EFL Cup Final - Ref Fucks Up

[Wellsey]

Does this result mean I wont be seeing Spurs at Dover in the Conference?

 

[Mrs Perryman]

Why are people having a go at the ref?
He let Laporte go for the first challenge because he let Reguilon off.

Both Laporte and Reguilon should have gone for 2 bookable offences. The ref didn't make the right decisions but I don't think he was unfair to either side. He tried to manage the game by not giving out yellows early. Granted he shouldn't go that way but we can't complain too much about the decisions.

The bigger picture is to look at how big a difference in terms of footballing ability and courage to play there is between the sides.
Jose has struck the fear of death into these players and they look totally petrified to play and pass.

Son probably had his worst game for us. He's suddenly turned into the safety first player, going back and side instead of forward. Decision making of some of our players was really poor. Hojbjerg trying to play in Reguilon said a lot about the difference between the sides. We have a DM running into the box with a chance to put us into the lead and he wants to pass on the responsibility to Reguilon. The pass itself was so shit, Reguilon would never have got it even running at full pace then Hojbjerg blames Reguilon.

Kane then stopped passing to him after that moment. Hojbjerg made 2 breaks to support Kane and both times Kane held on to it. Just playground football, I'm not passing to you because your shit. The top sides like city and bayern don't make decisions like that, you take the right option even if the player isn't the greatest. Kane is not surrounded by top players but you still have to play the ball on merit.

I just can't fathom we went into a cup final and had 2 shots. Kane didn't even get one off in anger.

I'm not going to lay into Ryan but the decision to bring on Sissoko and take off Lucas was bad bad bad. I've no idea why Poch, Jose, Deschamps and Mason all like Sissoko. He might be a character in the squad but that doesn't mean you play him!!! That decision to take Lucas off and Sissoko on directly influenced the goal we conceded. I noted in the first half, we started with a zonal setup and Lucas was marking Laporte. Lucas attacks the ball in the air which is fine. Sissoko does the opposite. I said to my dad for a set piece just before they scored that Sissoko wasn't marking properly. We should have put him on the halfway line and told him to run after it when it gets kicked up. Mason, Ledley etc haven't learnt anything from previous games such as Leicester at home. Sissoko doesn't jump or attack the ball in the air, you can't give him any defensive responsibility.

On a more positive note I thought Toby and Lloris were excellent. Dier was good, got caught trying to play which nearly cost us but that's the risk Poch would have been happy to take.

Our midfield is shocking. I've been watching a lot of Bissouma recently and I think we need to go for him. A Skipp and Bissouma midfield will be a good partnership to develop next season.

Lastly, Levy struck again with sacking a manager before an important game. He triggered Graham before an FA Cup semi at Old Trafford against Woolwich. We lost that game. Done the same thing now.

I don't actually know what to expect for the last few games. I don't think the players will actually try, they look like they've downed tools since the turn of the year. I'm looking forward to seeing what our squad looks like in August. I just don't want to see the same players that keep costing us, we all know who they are. I'm not even bothered about the incomings.

Agree with Calgary Spur , a superb sum-up of the situation we are in and how most of us are probably thinking.

 

[LLB Part Deux]

We were playing against the best team and coach in world football. It was a cup final they brought their a-game.

Coached to foul and kill off any sort of momentum. I'm only surprised that Mourinho never got our players to do the same

Man City are hands down the dirtiest side in the Prem and have been ever since Pep took charge. They're continually taking advantage of ref's unwillingness to hand out yellows for minor fouls near the halfway line.

It's as anti-football as parking the bus - probably more so.

 

[TeamSpirit™]

The scary thing is not Kane and Son going, the scary thing is Kane and Son deciding they need to leave Tottenham to reach their ambitions and offers commensurate with their ambitions not materializing.

Neither player is the top pick of the clubs who could pay what they're worth. Both situations are Christian Eriksen's waiting to happen.

Definitely more Son than Kane

 

[Go on son]

Man City are hands down the dirtiest side in the Prem and have been ever since Pep took charge. They're continually taking advantage of ref's unwillingness to hand out yellows for minor fouls near the halfway line.

It's as anti-football as parking the bus - probably more so.

Moutinho constantly told them to do it. Our gutless cunts wouldnt

 

[Twoleftfeet]

Agree with most of that but no way Bale should have started. It was obvious we wouldn't see much of the ball for long spells and without the ball, Bale is a lamppost, completely ineffectual, in fact, he detracts from the team. He's also not a counter-attack player anymore, so IMO utterly pointless playing him. Flip the coin for the opposite reflection and just look at what Lucas did, no way Bale would have produced that.

I think he was right to bring him on at the time he did. City's press had dropped, the scoreline suggested we were still in the game. He has shown quality on the ball and this is where you roll the dice with him, also for the time he has on the pitch he should be fit enough to work off the ball with some intensity without cooking himself.

I'm guessing Lucas came off because he was cooked. He was tasked as the upfront player to chase and hustle and try to nick the ball high, then feed to Kane or Son. But feel this tactic has been kinda sussed, if you want to stop Spurs attack then you stop the supply (they also wrapped up both Son and Kane well anyway and I'm not sure if either won the 1v1's).

For the most part, our entire defence was very good, both fullbacks were doubled up on, so struggled especially in the first half but made recovery tackles and it did mean City were reduced to crosses, which CB's and Lloris all dealt with, albeit last ditched blocks etc. But City did mix up their attacks and attacked from all areas of the pitch.

Fair comments about Bale, Guido ... but I would make a couple of points:
We surely cannot easily judge Bale’s current performance and style of play effectively because he has not been given a chance to play and fit in with the team. Mostly he has sat on the bench and when he does get a chance it’s only for a relatively few minutes at the end of a losing game.
As for the final specifically, I would have set Bale up to be the Team Talisman, as he is the one who has been there, done that and got a few teeshirts. His job would have been to rally the troops and give them confidence, a defacto Captain Of The Day.
Ryan should have worked closely with him prior to the game: “how do you win a final like this, Gazza?”
Bale is not an arrogant person, I’m sure if he was treated with respect you would get a lot more out of him and he wouldn’t be the lamppost that he has sometimes been with us.

I could be wrong, ymmv...

 

[Sonofa]

Man City are hands down the dirtiest side in the Prem and have been ever since Pep took charge. They're continually taking advantage of ref's unwillingness to hand out yellows for minor fouls near the halfway line.

It's as anti-football as parking the bus - probably more so.

Cmon - let's get real, peps teams are anti football?

I know what i'd prefer to watch out of our brand of nothingness and their 'anti-football'

 

[Go on son]

Fair comments about Bale, Guido ... but I would make a couple of points:
We surely cannot easily judge Bale’s current performance and style of play effectively because he has not been given a chance to play and fit in with the team. Mostly he has sat on the bench and when he does get a chance it’s only for a relatively few minutes at the end of a losing game.
As for the final specifically, I would have set Bale up to be the Team Talisman, as he is the one who has been there, done that and got a few teeshirts. His job would have been to rally the troops and give them confidence, a defacto Captain Of The Day.
Ryan should have worked closely with him prior to the game: “how do you win a final like this, Gazza?”
Bale is not an arrogant person, I’m sure if he was treated with respect you would get a lot more out of him and he wouldn’t be the lamppost that he has sometimes been with us.

I could be wrong, ymmv...

I dont think bale is the rallying type. Very poor yesterday. Right sub but ruined it by bringing on that donkey at same time. Ended up with no one to feed the ball and bale isnt going to work to find it

 

[edjkane]

Like I said he should never have been appointed, then sacked during 1st lockdown last season.

But since his sacking, the entire mood has lifted at the club, both fans and players breathing a huge sigh of relief. The win against Southampton too would have also given a small injection of positivity and confidence (we outshot a team for what feels like an eternity, there was a change of approach to that game, backed up by what the players have been saying), not enough to bridge the gulf of course as that's going to take some time to fix.

But 100% fans and the players had more of a vested interest in this game than had we gone into it with a dead man walking.

The mood in the club is more darker now. Still no trophies. At least with Mourinho haven't lost only 2 finals out of 14 and beaten Pep a few times, he would have found a way to beat him again. It may not be attractive but its been effective in the past, and would have lifted the club. If the players were so unhappy with Mourinho and glad to see him go, they should have played their hearts out to win and prove a point. That's the bounce we should have seen from the players yesterday!!!

 

[Mick Cooper]

I can see a problem in team selection when you are coaching your pals.

I'm not writing of Mason yet. Just hope he learns how to handle team selection better than against City.

pretty arrogant of you, he's a qualified coach and because he didn't pick the players (that you don't know, or watch train) that you felt he should have played, he's a flawed option.

Get your letter into Levy, I'm sure you'll go on the shortlist straightaway.

 

[Mick Cooper]

Dream on sunshine ,
We will always be 5 years behind City as our owners don't give a toss.
It would take us a decade to sign 5 quality players , we don't do that . We never sign the finished article .
We never deserved anything . Totally outplayed , 1 shot on target , passive set up , poor team selection. It was a complete useless balls up as ever.

in your massively ignorant opinion.

Unless you are a key part of the Tottenham Hotspur PLC set up, and not just yet another self opinionated windbag, who actually knows much less than he thinks he does.

By the way - how many multimillion pound companies of international standing do you run? Must be a few, to hold the opinions that you do - with such certainty.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Fair comments about Bale, Guido ... but I would make a couple of points:
We surely cannot easily judge Bale’s current performance and style of play effectively because he has not been given a chance to play and fit in with the team. Mostly he has sat on the bench and when he does get a chance it’s only for a relatively few minutes at the end of a losing game.
As for the final specifically, I would have set Bale up to be the Team Talisman, as he is the one who has been there, done that and got a few teeshirts. His job would have been to rally the troops and give them confidence, a defacto Captain Of The Day.
Ryan should have worked closely with him prior to the game: “how do you win a final like this, Gazza?”
Bale is not an arrogant person, I’m sure if he was treated with respect you would get a lot more out of him and he wouldn’t be the lamppost that he has sometimes been with us.

I could be wrong, ymmv...

I have to disagree, firstly I think Bale is one of the most arrogant players on the planet, with what he's done previously I've no problem with this, it's not an insult or slur but a compliment.

He's been the difference for teams (us and Real Madrid) but he's no leader, he's just been the best player and the game plan has been how to get him on the ball in the final third.

I think we've seen that in certain moments in a game he still has quality but hasn't seen this against top opposition, in fact went missing (not entirely his fault) when against better oppo. Against better oppo you need to be more than just a cherry on a cake, you need to contribute to the team off the ball.

He's past it mate, he's not a talisman anymore. Or perhaps another way to look at it is, if he's is the talisman of your side then that means you are in deep shit with the quality of players within your squad. What I saying is, he's not at the level to be great at Bayern, Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, he simply doesn't make the squads. So if he's making your (our squad) then we have a quality issue e.g If West Ham signed him, he would be their talisman.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

The mood in the club is more darker now. Still no trophies. At least with Mourinho haven't lost only 2 finals out of 14 and beaten Pep a few times, he would have found a way to beat him again. It may not be attractive but its been effective in the past, and would have lifted the club. If the players were so unhappy with Mourinho and glad to see him go, they should have played their hearts out to win and prove a point. That's the bounce we should have seen from the players yesterday!!!

He got thumped by them 3-0 just 2 months ago.

Fans were doing the conger when he got sacked, I mean that too, outside in my street!!! Fans sang Mason's name in the stadium, they have NEVER done that with the Dino (I know we've been locked out this season but they were booing him before lockdown last year and we've never sung his name.

Over half the players hated his guts.

You can't expect a thing from a team going into a game with the environment he fostered at the club.

 

[LLB Part Deux]

Cmon - let's get real, peps teams are anti football?

I know what i'd prefer to watch out of our brand of nothingness and their 'anti-football'

Attacking wise obviously its great football, but purposely fouling teams to stop them breaking forward... how is that not anti-football?

You can absolutely divorce the excellent attacking area of their game from the rampant shithousery.

 

[Coops40]

Man City are hands down the dirtiest side in the Prem and have been ever since Pep took charge. They're continually taking advantage of ref's unwillingness to hand out yellows for minor fouls near the halfway line.

It's as anti-football as parking the bus - probably more so.

The anti football comes from the refs not giving cards for “professional” fouls consistently enough.

It‘s not City’s responsibility. The solution is in the hands of the officials.

 

[Twoleftfeet]

Fairy snuff, Guido ... re: Bale, I look at the way he is with the Wales national team, he is seen as the senior player and he reacts well to that.
I would not see him as a full time talisman in our team, but I thought with Mason being a rookie and the team generally being overawed by a final, that Bale carries with him the respect of experience and success when it comes to football finals. I just thought that we could have utilised that better yesterday.

Of course, it’s all a moot point, it’s history now, let’s hope for a fresh new start next season ... or maybe a winning run of games into top four this season?
I know, I know...... hope springs eternal in the mind of a Spurs fan!

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

The anti football comes from the refs not giving cards for “professional” fouls consistently enough.

It‘s not City’s responsibility. The solution is in the hands of the officials.

And then they get ripped for not letting the game flow, especially in finals.

He let our players off with yellows too, but no one has mentioned this. If La Porte was "lucky to be on the pitch" then so too was Reggie, no? Fairly sure that Lo Celso got away with a couple also.

 

[AussieYiddo]

Have had time to let it sink in now, I haven't read any of this forum's post since yesterday just cause it was so frustrating to watch at the time.

I don't blame Mason cause he shouldn't have been put in that position but some of his decisions yesterday were mind boggling.

1. Kane was injured. He looked slow, sluggish and you could tell he wasn't up to it.

2. Not starting Bale. He has been our best player over the course of the last 2 months with the exception of the NLD and looked great against Southampton.

3. Not starting Ndombele and even more so not bringing him on. I actually understood the call to start Winks, even if I disagreed. A midfield of GLC/Tanguy/Hoj may have struggled in that flat 4-3-3 set up BUT you could see in the first half we had nobody composed on the ball willing to get the ball off the CB's. This meant we had to overplay it in defence and were too afraid to send it long or play direct at all. Mason should have realised this and brought him on at HT because it was a miracle we weren't down by then.

4. Sitting so deep. With the exception of the start of the second half we pretty much bent over and just asked them to attack us. Can't do that to City and if it wasn't for Hugo/Toby/Eric all having great games we would have got smashed. We also should have been switching it up and going long a bit more just to mix it up and make sure they wouldn't press so high.

5. Sissoko. He should never have come on, awful decision. Made even worse to bring him on for GLC meaning we literally had zero creativity when that change was made. We looked a bit more composed by that point but that double sub killed us. We had 3 very good forwards with nobody to give them the ball. Also the Bergwijn sub was pointless cause if we scored where would we have gone from there in extra time with no RB.

Onto the players now, the mentality is so weak. We looked like we were shitting ourselves. Son with one of his worst games ever, Winks and Lucas just non-existent. Serge I actually thought played well but then a trademark stupid tackle cost us. Sissoko completely unaware of his man and at fault on the set piece. Those 4 guys are the same old culprits but they're allowed to keep making the same mistakes. And worst of all, when we concede - we showed no intensity, no desire, no effort to try and turn it around. We didn't press them and harry them to try and win the ball back and attack. Everyone was just passing the blame to somebody else rather than hunting in groups.

 

[GDG]

Tough day yesterday.

First half was hard for us, but I think it was just an illustration of the quality disparity more than an attempt to be negative. The City press was so aggressive and we really struggled to play through that.

Having come in at 0-0 I felt there was cause for optimism in the 2nd half. Sure enough, the City press dropped in aggressiveness and we began to get a foothold in the game.

Then the subs came.

Last thing I want to do is criticise Mason but they were poor subs. Moura was quite easily our best attacking outfield player, City were uncomfortable when he had the ball. Contrast that with Son, who was utterly pathetic, and I think it was a poor choice from Mason.

Similarly, the GLC Sissoko decision was horrific. I understood his logic, get Sissoko on to protect Bale’s side. But GLC, in spite of not playing great, was the only player capable of beating the press. He did so in the first half when Aurier whipped a good ball in. He did so in the 2nd half to launch the counter that Hojbjerg wasted.

Taking him off and not having Ndombele on there really killed any chance we had to play through MF. The game was over by then.

To lose it on a set piece when we had defended so well was also gutting.

Special shout out to Toby yesterday. Lots of people on here have maintained he’s our best CB all season and he proved us right yesterday. The way he celebrated when he blocked the ball first half was great to see, I still believe he’s one of the 5 best CB’s in the country.

The dark cloud of Jose has been lifted but still lots of work to be done in relation to tactics and strategy.

Get the right manager in and we will get there....

Let’s go all out for 5 wins from 5 to finish the season now.

 

[Yiddy]

Attacking wise obviously its great football, but purposely fouling teams to stop them breaking forward... how is that not anti-football?

You can absolutely divorce the excellent attacking area of their game from the rampant shithousery.

I think it's great in game management. The best teams break up play and stop threatening attacks and take the yellows. Look at that peak Woolwich side. Gilberto Silva did that for them all the time. I see madrid do it countless times. You need intelligence in the middle of the park and we have none.