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Ex-Spurs Player Harry Kane

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Bazali said:
How do you know that he had no say in it?

Were you at the training ground listening?
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There's no reason to believe otherwise. No top tier clubs are run on the basis where a player gets to choose whether he plays or not. I'm simply giving Pochettino and his coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that they weren't told what to do by a player.
 
sammyspurs said:
But you’ve agreed with posts that mock the notion he could be declared fit if he wasn’t,
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Dunno what post you're specifically referring to, but on current form I'm inclined to assume you're twisting/spinning something or another....

sammyspurs said:
and then claimed he wasn’t fit
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No, I referenced YOU claiming that he wasn't fit; so let's get THAT correct.

Beyond that, let me clarify by repeating:

- Injury was declared healed (presumably by medical team)
- Kane vouched for his feeling up to playing
- Poch made the final call and picked him.
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My feelings are that he was cleared by the docs in terms of his injury being healed, but HK gave subsequent input as to whether or not he felt sharp enough to play.

....Which is pretty standard stuff that I'm sure you'd concede to if you weren't it shit-house mode.
 
sammyspurs said:
So naive then. Better than brushing it off I suppose.

It wouldn’t give him any power under a manager like SAF or even Jose, but we had Poch, who is tactically inept
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And weak over playing the nice guy but perhaps that’s being kind as he’d already spoke about resigning after the final and maybe didn’t give a fuck?


But back to today and I hope he’s benched but Nuno won’t have the balls to do it
 
Bazali said:
S

Spirited defence I’ll give you that which hasn’t altered my opinion one iota

What if his ankle had healed and he had picked up another injury, which often happens, and never said anything?

Whatever he clearly wasn’t match fit and was a passenger from the start which is on both him and Poch
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It may have done, but we're in to wild speculation at that point, which doesn't seem like it's going to lead anywhere. Generally when you're cleared to play again you'll get a general check up, including every area there are any concerns over.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
There's no reason to believe otherwise. No top tier clubs are run on the basis where a player gets to choose whether he plays or not. I'm simply giving Pochettino and his coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that they weren't told what to do by a player.
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Check out the way he moved and the runs he made on the night and compare them to a normal game prior to that such as the Everton away fixture where he played rather well because he was fit
 
sammyspurs said:
So naive then. Better than brushing it off I suppose.

It wouldn’t give him any power under a manager like SAF or even Jose, but we had Poch, who is tactically inept
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It's not naive to not wildly speculate that a player bullied a manager in to making a decision, with no evidence of that happening. Pochettino is a fiery, strong willed top level manager. If he's able to substitute Messi and bench Donnarumma, I have no reason to believe he's a weak person.

What does tactical ability have to do with whether or not a manager has the strength of will to drop an important player?
 
Airfixx said:
Dunno what post you're specifically referring to, but on current form I'm inclined to assume you're twisting/spinning something or another....



No, I referenced YOU claiming that he wasn't fit; so let's get THAT correct.

Beyond that, let me clarify by repeating:



My feelings are that he was cleared by the docs in terms of his injury being healed, but HK gave subsequent input as to whether or not he felt sharp enough to play.

....Which is pretty standard stuff that I'm sure you'd concede to if you weren't it shit-house mode.
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Which one is it?

Airfixx said:
Nah, didn't say he was fully fit
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Not fully fit isn’t fit
 
Raumdeuterz said:
It may have done, but we're in to wild speculation at that point, which doesn't seem like it's going to lead anywhere. Generally when you're cleared to play again you'll get a general check up, including every area there are any concerns over.
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So not checking on a subsequent area which Kane was aware but never said anything but you’re right in that’s speculation and let’s just agree that he wasn’t match fit
 
iz futbal said:
Poch failed in both big games for us. He was even saved by Lucas in the semi and then failed again in another final.
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Ok, but Klopp failed in a lot of big games until he didn't.* Seems weird to make such a big declaration on Poch. In no big game were we the favored team or even on par with our opponents. Pretty harsh to make such a sweeping declaration. I mean so harsh as to be irrational.

*I hate having to bring up an example but on this board arguing in the abstract seems to be fruitless. Plus your declaration leaves little to the nuanced.
 
Bazali said:
Check out the way he moved and the runs he made on the night and compare them to a normal game prior to that such as the Everton away fixture where he played rather well because he was fit
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I've seen Kane play plenty of games where he looks off the pace. He's a player who can look seriously plodding when he's not on it. The lack of matches before the final probably didn't help, and he clearly wasn't sharp.

I don't think that means he was carrying an unknown injury. He might have been, but there were no suggestions of it.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
It's not naive to not wildly speculate that a player bullied a manager in to making a decision, with no evidence of that happening. Pochettino is a fiery, strong willed top level manager. If he's able to substitute Messi and bench Donnarumma, I have no reason to believe he's a weak person.

What does tactical ability have to do with whether or not a manager has the strength of will to drop an important player?
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Pochettino took Kane to Preston and used him while 5-0 up

You’re pretending Kane has no influence, it’s a bit weak.

What’s tactics got to do with it?
Well it’s means our one tactic that half of the season (find Kane) needed addressing.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I've seen Kane play plenty of games where he looks off the pace. He's a player who can look seriously plodding when he's not on it. The lack of matches before the final probably didn't help, and he clearly wasn't sharp.

I don't think that means he was carrying an unknown injury. He might have been, but there were no suggestions of it.
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If he clearly wasn’t sharp then he wasn’t match fit but again that’s giving him the benefit of the doubt and he shouldn’t have started
 
iz futbal said:
Sissoko lumping a highball into the box and the ball ending up with lucas is not some great tactics. That was down to the players.
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Sure it is. Going over the press is one of the few ways to defeat it. And considering the shit players and absolutely horrific MF we had it was the only way.

And at some point ALL tactics are down to the players. Your desire to vilify feels more agenda-y than objective analysis.
 
sammyspurs said:
Which one is it?



Not fully fit isn’t fit
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"Which one is" what?

Read the underlined comments again. :roll:



Was he still injured? Presumably not (Doctors pressumably cleared him on that front).
Was he sharp enough to play well..... Didn't seem that way, no.

Who had final say/roll of the dice over the latter?

The manager.
 
sammyspurs said:
Pochettino took Kane to Preston and used him while 5-0 up

You’re pretending Kane has no influence, it’s a bit weak.

What’s tactics got to do with it?
Well it’s means our one tactic that half of the season (find Kane) needed addressing.
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Kane can have influence without much power. He can try and influence Pochettino to start him, but all the power is with Poch, he makes the decision. Nothing Kane could do or say would change that. As a manager it's your job to manage ambitious players who will want to play every game.

Anyway, this has been done to death now. Let's agree to disagree.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Kane can have influence without much power. He can try and influence Pochettino to start him, but all the power is with Poch, he makes the decision. Nothing Kane could do or say would change that. As a manager it's your job to manage ambitious players who will want to play every game.

Anyway, this has been done to death now. Let's agree to disagree.
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Fine, but I remember a few months ago Kane not turning up for training and missing three matches until the window shut.
Seemed like he had no problem picking and choosing when he wanted to work those weeks
 
sammyspurs said:
Apparently Kane had no choice. No player has ever said, “guv, I don’t think I can make 90”

Amazing when you look at Ndombele and all the games he squeaked himself out of
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Well Tanguy probably did try to say that but was so gassed after taking a throw in that he could hardly speak

Still made it first later into the ‘all you can eat ‘ buffet though!
 
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