Again, that's your opinion and of course you're welcome to it. Success is a relative measure. By your measure above, 80+ clubs in the English leagues are unsuccessful and have been unsuccessful for over 50 years, yet their fans still support them. Success for me (and plenty of others it seems) is doing well compared to your relative position / expectation etc.
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Management ENIC
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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The state of the art stadium is the producer of the revenue, not the fruits of it.
And this is why I'm asking whether we've really kicked on at all since 2006.
Alan Sugar fundamentally did not understand the modern football business. He didn't see the revenue potential. Levy did. He knew what Carlos Kickaball represented as an asset.
After fits and starts and a bit of fortune, by 2006 that new acumen was showing.
The argument against Levy's continued presence in the chairmanship is twofold:
1. Everything that's been done since has been on the financial and business side of the club
2. Levy's presence imposes limits and problems on the process of the football side that prevent any further growth on the pitch
The argument isn't that the ENIC project is a failure, it's that we've squeezed all the juice there is to be had from that project, and there's only retrenchment to come.
Forget the project's past. It has no future.
Then the vast, overwhelming majority of football clubs in existence are not successful, never have been and it's increasingly likely they never will be.
Why do fans keep showing up to watch them play?
LOL
You just did it and yet instead of addressing your pathetic response is to ignore it again and try to falsely put it on me.
LOL
Fluked out a PL title????
No it is supposed to show that it isn't all the evil Oil money stopping Spurs from success.
Years??? Not really.
Elite squad?
And those football people that built it were run out of the club by Levy. Once they were gone we saw what Levy did.
No proof that we would be worse off. Everyone above us has European games. Everyone in the bottom 5 of the table has the freedom to focus on PL games.
Thank you for pointing out that Oil money isn't holding us back took you long enough but the key thing is you got there.
We aren't one of those clubs. We're the one with the highest ticket prices in the country. For a club who charge those prices to come and watch this team play, trophies are our barometer of success. If we drop our prices to those of Leamington Spa, we can claim finishing high in the league is successful.
As it is, we're less successful than clubs like Leicester or Woolwich, who actually have FA cups (and a league!) in the bank in recent history.
Who said abject failure?
And it is undeniable that they are holding us back.
In the 21st century? They don't.
So if you judge success purely by trophies, then yes they've been more successful than us. If on the other hand you judge success by average league position (which I do), as well as getting to many semi-finals and finals, then we've been more successful than them. Each person has their own criteria of what constitutes success.
Because their definition of what constitutes success is different to that of a club which claims to be part of the elite and has the ticket prices to match. We want to play with the big boys then ENIC need to deal with big boy expectations from the fans, which = trophies. Not finishing high in the league, silverware. Otherwise the other option is sell up to an Abramovich or someone else who has that ambition for the football club.
I go to non-league games all the time and have a ball, and the fans do as well. They're not trophy expectant because it's a cheap, fun day out. Spurs fans have a right to loftier expectations than that because the club is asking them for a lot more commitment to watch games.
And yet required revenue in order to build, and makes us a more attractive club to both players and managers.
Sure, but without which we would now still be languishing in relegation battles, unable to attract or pay decent players.
To some degree I agree with you. I like to think he's recognized his own shortcomings in that regard at started appointing directors of football etc.
You might well be right, but if we do get bought out by an oligarch who wants to make us a successful toy which wins trophies, you can be damn sure it will be thanks to what ENIC built us into over the past 20 years.
And yours just happens to be charging the highest ticket prices in the country but winning less trophies than Wigan or Swansea. I get it.
How many Spurs fans would swap our 'success' in the last decade for Leicesters FA cup and league title? A majority I imagine. How many Leicester fans would do the reverse?
None. Not a single one would.
Are you aware that typing LOL doesn't constitute an argument, and often indicates that you don't actually have one?
By correcting you and offering counter points you don't like? Okay then.
Yes. They fluked a title through winning 1-0 against half a league that rolled over for them to enjoy their Cinderella story.
Sorry, did you not pay attention that season?
But a fluke aside, it pretty much is.
Yes. Really. Klopp was appointed in 2015. It took until the 2018-19 season for Liverpool to finish above us. Were you not paying attention during that period?
Yes. A squad which challenged for the title in the toughest league in the world, defeated multiple European giants and made it to a CL final.
Do you ever pay any fucking attention to our club's seasons?
Says you.
The fact that we were frequently in relegation battles and were worth 50m quid as an entire club is in fact proof that we were worse off and would have stayed worse off if ENIC had not changed our fortunes.
Did you pay attention to that period, or were you not yet a fan?
Except for Leicester when they won the title.
Yes but they don't have the type of investment that ENIC has pumped into our club over the past 20 years to keep us competitive with the super-rich.
It's almost as if you're not even paying attention to the argument...
Sorry you still dont understand. I recommend paying more attention.
:contebored:
Because it was the only title they've ever won, and they have no reason to expect a repeat ever again. They are a small club who are still living off that one victory and will soon get rid of Rodgers when he can't replicate that fluke.
ENIC built us up to the point where we are getting closer to reaching super club status.
Sure they are. And in terms of competitiveness they've largely delivered. If as you say we need to sell up to some billionaire who can get us over the final hurdle and into silverware you can be sure it will be possible because we've been built into a global brand with a fantastic stadium and impeccable financial structure that's attractive.
You know why Abramovic chose Chelsea instead of us? He flew over the Chelsea Village built by Ken Bates and saw a sound financial investment.
They won the FA cup last season, so they can live off another major trophy for a while longer I guess. Currently that means they're up to two of those (Including the biggest one you can possibly win) vs our zero for the past decade. Fingers crossed for 3 late goals this time, I guess!
They also finished above us last season. And the season before that. Who is living off what again?
I'll keep saying it: ENIC have done a fantastic job building Spurs to a place where we can have great success under management that isn't them.
It doesn't have to be an oligarch. Levy has become the kind of dinosaur he once ran circles around. He's out of ideas. A douchey private equity conglomerate that grasps football in 2022 the way Levy grasped football in 2004 could win everything here.
I'm re-upping the meme I made the other day, because it's very true for where we stand, and for your (not entirely unjustified) stick towards transfer-obsessed chicken little message board polemicists.
Neither City or Newcastle were in a good state when they were picked up by billionaire owners. Nor does inflating the clubs worth by a tremendous amount that nobody is actually ever going to pay make us more likely to be picked up.
Nobody is buying us anytime soon, it would be extortionate. We're stuck with ENIC for the forseeable future.
Nice try troll. Go back to your aftv.Mate, you're the one acting like a gooner melt. Why don't you go join their ranks where you can spray each others faces with spittle and pop a vein every time results don't go your way, whining about how it's not good enough for your sacred club which has a sacred right to win, etc?
Every argument you make is taken straight from their rantings.
They are living off that title win, while we labored under Jose and suffered for it.
Where are they right now?