Manager Antonio Conte

[Matt1882]

Well I disagree. And a bloody good job too. Be a bit boring if we all agreed all the time wouldn't it?

Seriously though. (And I don't know if you were being serious) there wouldn't be much to talk about on here for a start would there?

Poster 1: We're shit and all our players are shit. Our chairman's a bald, tight cunt who doesn't know one end of a football from another. Nice stadium though.

Poster 2: Agreed

Poster 3: Agreed

Poster 4: Agreed.......

Bit boring, isn't it?

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There's 2 ways of looking at it.
Some things are just a simple fact that everyone should agree on. Absolutely everyone.
Being nice to one another. Don't invade countries. Winks is shit. ENIC are tight. These are inescapable facts everyone should all nod and agree with.

The problem is when Russia does invade the Ukraine. We can't agree with that, can we.

But using the first example, if everyone just agreed on things that are facts, we could focus on other things or work on solutions, instead of arguing over who is right.

 

[Rocket]

This group of players isn't very good but think they are. Middlesbrough's know what they are and worked with it, they ran their hearts out, competed for every tackle for second ball, and won through because of that. Ours may have had more ability, but not enough to coast through the game which is what most of them seemed to fancy. We have a group of players who are below mediocre but think they're too good to turn up at the likes of Burnley or Middlesbrough and battle for games.

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I'd agree on all of that. I'm not sure if that's a rebuttal to or an agreement with anything I've said. In fact if you look at my post from earlier in the match thread I lamented the fact that it appears our players have a subconscious superiority complex when it comes to games like last night. And it all too frequently bites them on their collective lazy arse.

 

[BrightonSpurs]

Klopps Liverpool were shit un till he was backed with players like Van dijk, Salah, Mane etc
They came 8th in his first season, probably where we will come in Contes first. We can judge how good he is for us once he's actually given some good players to work with.

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That’s exactly it. Klopp identified they needed a goalie and a centre back. So they spunked loads of cash on VVD and Allison.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Look here.

He's got shit players to work with yes.

But for the love of God show some tactical flexibility.

Poch's biggest weakness was being a stubborn bastard. He learnt this from Bielsa. The same Bielsa who just got sacked for being a stubborn bastard and not changing his plan to be more pragmatic.

One thing I hate the most is people making the same mistakes over and over again and doing fuck all about it.

How many times does Conte need to see the same things happen, before it prompts him to change his approach?

There were plenty of warnings if you go back to the start of this thread warning that he is too reactive with his decisions from his time at Juve, Italy and Inter.

Surely if he's supposedly a top 5 manager he can work out that doing the same things again and again and expecting a different result is utter madness. In fact it's the definition of madness.

Very obvious he just wants to play counterattack football. But the biggest mistakes we made under Jose was to allow teams have the ball and create chances and we found out that eventually they end up scoring.

We played Wilder's Sheffield Utd away under Jose and exactly the same happened against Wilder's Middlesbrough.

These managers have resorted to these tactics because the quality in the players isn't there. But anyone who has watched the u23s play will know they play possession football. So if you want that then throw in Harvey, it literally isn't going to be any worse. Take a fucking risk instead of playing safe.

There literally isn't a club motto that contradicts our actions as a club than us.

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When he switched to 4-2-4 for 20 minutes yesterday we got absolutely battered and they could have scored 2-3 in that 20 minute period before we reverted back

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

I like him. He’s a very good manager. We are shit. Levy is a cunt. All right. But he as to decide if he’s in in or out out.

 

[Deuterz]

I'd agree on all of that. I'm not sure if that's a rebuttal to or an agreement with anything I've said. In fact if you look at my post from earlier in the match thread I lamented the fact that it appears our players have a subconscious superiority complex when it comes to games like last night. And it all too frequently bites them on their collective lazy arse.

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More just a rebuttal to the whole 'our players are better than x team we should be able to beat them' argument. Yeah they're better, but their attitudes aren't good enough and they don't have the consistency to do in week in week out, so we'll end up around about where we deserve, which is 7th or even 8th in the table.

I don't know if any manager can fix this.

 

[Deleted 15229]

That’s exactly it. Klopp identified they needed a goalie and a centre back. So they spunked loads of cash on VVD and Allison.

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Bunga-Bunga Paratici does our signings.

He identified we needed a goalie and a centre back. He signed a dud goalie and a centre back who can't win a header.

Oh and he also signed Emerson Royale

Roll on the summer window...

 

[BrightonSpurs]

Was just looking at the title winning 2017 Chelsea squad under Conte. Likes of Kante, Fabregas, peak Matic in the centre of the park. Will never get anywhere at spurs playing 343 without 3 new cms and wing backs that can create. That’s 5 signings. Then had Cahill, Terry, Zouma, Ake and Luiz to pick from in back 3. Dier no better than 2017 Cahill, Romero nowhere near peak Terry and Sanchez is probably about par with Luiz on brain farts but the latter could pass. We need at least 2 starting defenders better than what we have to be at that level.

So that’s 7 new players to be at that level. Gonna take 2 windows minimum and by that point Kanes gone, Sonny is past it (if not already)



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Chelsea_F.C._season

 

[Airfixx]

That’s exactly it. Klopp identified they needed a goalie and a centre back. So they spunked loads of cash on VVD and Allison.

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They also sold Sterling, Suarez & Coutinho (circa 250m + other sales) in the preceding years to balance the books.

Klopp never had some big cash injection.

 

[Deuterz]

Not solely.... All but to a man they all performed much better than they did last night.



You're going WAY overboard. Squad needs improvement.....

"Most teams" - Meh...... You and i both know that's a gross exaggeration.

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Because it's a big game away and they're all focused and doing pretty simple roles for the most part, all they have to do is apply pressure, keep it simple and get the ball to Kane who was playing like prime De Bruyne and Lewandowski combined. As footballers most of them don't have the basic levels of consistency or ability to do anything more, or even do that every single week.

Squad needs tearing up and starting again.

Doherty, Sess, Winks, Hojbjerg and Davies don't start for most sides in the league. Guys like Bentancur and Kulu start for most but not the rest of the top 6. Even someone like Romero is very good but has fatal flaws and I'm not sure how he'd operate outside of a back 5 with an inability to win headers in this division. Dier is a key player for us but wouldn't get in to the rest of the top 6 sides. Lloris would but his form has been catastrophically bad.

 

[Deuterz]

We have a top manager; he as yet seems to be struggling to draw the same from our lot on a regular basis.

Why isn't our bad-ass (tm) manager chopping this ego problem down to size?


(I'm not trying to exclusively pin our struggles onto any one factor, but it's a fair question.)

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Because they're lost causes. When we hired Conte the Chelsea fans I know were telling me they were actually worried (never heard this when we got Jose) and that he was elite and players would be elevated by him. You probably hear the same from Juve and Inter fans.

If these players can't be improved or motivated by Conte, I don't know who can improve or motivate them. And I'm not interested in giving them another chance under another manager at this point, they've used up their nine lives.

 

[Airfixx]

Because it's a big game away and they're all focused and doing pretty simple roles for the most part, all they have to do is apply pressure, keep it simple and get the ball to Kane who was playing like prime De Bruyne and Lewandowski combined. As footballers most of them don't have the basic levels of consistency or ability to do anything more, or even do that every single week.

Squad needs tearing up and starting again.

Doherty, Sess, Winks, Hojbjerg and Davies don't start for most sides in the league. Guys like Bentancur and Kulu start for most but not the rest of the top 6. Even someone like Romero is very good but has fatal flaws and I'm not sure how he'd operate outside of a back 5 with an inability to win headers in this division. Dier is a key player for us but wouldn't get in to the rest of the top 6 sides. Lloris would but his form has been catastrophically bad.

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Top six is where the debate becomes most pertinent; but outside of that you're grossly over-estimating a lot of crap teams/players. Take a whole load of these oppo players out of their relentlessly drilled roles/systems and they'd fall to fuckin' pieces (Doherty being the pristine example of this very phenomena!).......

On the flipside; a whole bunch of PL teams would bite your arm of for the likes of Lucas, PEH, Reg, Davies etc. etc.



Romero: Well; he's still TBC as per his option to buy.... Perhaps pose the question about not making him permanent in his thread... Don't forget to duck though!

 

[Dixiefish61]

I remember his demeanour during the last few weeks at chavs. Seems remarkably similar already. Hope I’m overreacting but I honestly think he has realised the true scale of the job now and maybe doesn’t fancy it after all

 

[Airfixx]

Because they're lost causes. When we hired Conte the Chelsea fans I know were telling me they were actually worried (never heard this when we got Jose) and that he was elite and players would be elevated by him. You probably hear the same from Juve and Inter fans.

If these players can't be improved or motivated by Conte, I don't know who can improve or motivate them. And I'm not interested in giving them another chance under another manager at this point, they've used up their nine lives.

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My asking that question was not a means to defend the players........

Not sure how much more; but I def expected more from Conte on that front...... Even if I didn't expect us to become a relentless points-winning machine in a matter of months.

 

[Deuterz]

Top six is where the debate becomes most pertinent; but outside of that you're grossly over-estimating a lot of crap teams/players. Take a whole load of these oppo players out of their relentlessly drilled roles/systems and they'd fall to fuckin' pieces (Doherty being the pristine example of this very phenomena!).......

On the flipside; a whole bunch of PL teams would bit your arm of for the likes of Lucas, PEH, Reg, Davies etc. etc.



Romero: Well; he's still TBC as per his option to buy.... Perhaps pose the question about not making him permanent in his thread... Don't forget to duck though!

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Wolves upgraded with Semedo immediately IIRC. He was a player who worked well in that system yes, but they knew he was nothing special and were happy to sell for a pretty reasonable price. Never a player we should have been after.

Meh - they'd take them but none (apart from maybe Lucas) would be game changers for them IMO. All would look pretty much at their level playing for Brighton or Southampton.

Yeah fuck that, I saw what happens to his critics! He's got obvious ability. I like his aggression. But said aggression also leads to him making copious amounts of errors and the lack of aerial ability in this league is a huge flaw. He's a player that does have those building blocks to work with though.

 

[Airfixx]

More just a rebuttal to the whole 'our players are better than x team we should be able to beat them' argument. Yeah they're better, but their attitudes aren't good enough and they don't have the consistency to do in week in week out, so we'll end up around about where we deserve, which is 7th or even 8th in the table.

I don't know if any manager can fix this.

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I don't think anyone actually expects Conte to turn the squad as is into winners.....

Yes; there needs to be money spent in key areas in the summer, but I think some of us would welcome tangible signs of progression in the meantime.

I think he's brought the best out of Dier & Davies (and obv. Kane & Son by and large take care of themselves), but to grant him a pass as a means to throw the towel in on everyone else is a bit weak IMO.

 

[TottsAmazeballs]

Often heard this.
On what basis would life be boring if everyone agreed with each other?
I personally think the world would be a much better place if we all agreed on everything.

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*Disagreed because I do, but mostly because of the lol-factor.

Conflict is the basis for all stories. Without conflict, we would have nothing and would in fact never have evolved in this way.

"I'm going to eat you."
"That's what I was thinking! Go right ahead."

Maybe, now we are evolved we can just agree on everything from now on? Ok, but we need a way of providing perfect proofs of every standpoint. Factoring in objective and subjective aspects is a huge problem. And, sooner or later you're going to run into special relativity and that problem is going nowhere.

 

[Airfixx]

Wolves upgraded with Semedo immediately IIRC. He was a player who worked well in that system yes, but they knew he was nothing special and were happy to sell for a pretty reasonable price. Never a player we should have been after.

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I don't disagree; but to my point (which you're kinda reinforcing here).... There's PLENTY of others like that in teams beneath the top 6.....

Be they Poch or Hodgson, Potter or Dyche; good managers (regardless of level and resources) make players look better than they are.....

For example; I'd be highly wary of buying players from Brighton.

Meh - they'd take them but none (apart from maybe Lucas) would be game changers for them IMO. All would look pretty much at their level playing for Brighton or Southampton.

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Again; I think this is just exhibiting a rather rosey take on these clubs..... Especially once you bear in mind we're talking about players that sit outside of our best XI anyway.

Yeah fuck that, I saw what happens to his critics! He's got obvious ability. I like his aggression. But said aggression also leads to him making copious amounts of errors and the lack of aerial ability in this league is a huge flaw. He's a player that does have those building blocks to work with though.

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LOL...... I'm gonna start a poll.

 

[enfield1985]

Wolves upgraded with Semedo immediately IIRC. He was a player who worked well in that system yes, but they knew he was nothing special and were happy to sell for a pretty reasonable price. Never a player we should have been after.

Meh - they'd take them but none (apart from maybe Lucas) would be game changers for them IMO. All would look pretty much at their level playing for Brighton or Southampton.

Yeah fuck that, I saw what happens to his critics! He's got obvious ability. I like his aggression. But said aggression also leads to him making copious amounts of errors and the lack of aerial ability in this league is a huge flaw. He's a player that does have those building blocks to work with though.

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Agree about Romero but remember he has not played that many games for us yet.

 

[Deuterz]

Agree about Romero but remember he has not played that many games for us yet.

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Sure, and I do think we're a better team when he plays. I like him, he's got a lot of attributes this squad badly needed. It's just currently he's a player who needs work, alongside another couple of top defenders I think he'd be very little problem and would be learning quickly. But we have Dier/Davies alongside him, so we don't really have that luxury. Look at Konate - young, very talented defender with loads of raw ability, but was slowly eased in by Klopp.

He also made mistakes and was criticised by Liverpool fans, but they weren't game costing mistakes and he wasn't expected to be the main man already. That's the luxury of having genuine top players in their prime like VVD and Alisson back there. It makes settling in the younger talent much easier.