Steven Bergwijn

[TheSpurEst]

Heroics at Leicester.
Unlucky to have another super-sub late goal written off a week or so later.
Excellent vs WH in the cup.
Meshes well in his recent 5-10 minute cameos.

I don't think you're being fair to him at all.

Yes, there was Leicester heroics. That is nice.
It was his version of "That night in Amsterdam" by Moura.

But here is the issue - you mention the two games where he was good. And those two games cover 3 goals + 1 assist. In those two games he was on field combined 72 minutes. Total playing time for Spurs has been 811 minutes. With reminder of 739 minutes he has scored 0 and assisted 1. To displace Son even for rotation purposes, you have to create or score goals. Simple as. Across the season Bergwijn has not been enough of a goal threat. Son form can be up-and-down, but his longest spell in EPL without goal or assist has been 4 (!) games. So even if he is in poor form, he still delivers.

Don't get me wrong. I like Bergwijn. I've always had soft spot for Duch players - I was even hoping for Janssen to turn good way longer than I should have. And I would be over the moon if he would carry on this NT scoring form into Spurs shirt. I will be here to praise him and give him credit.

But I feel people are doing this victimising of players about "how they are unfairly treated" etc WAAAAAYYY too much and up to now it feels unreasonable. Cause Bergwijn has also been absent with injury 11 games - hardly mistreatment by manager.

 

[Airfixx]

Yes, there was Leicester heroics. That is nice.
It was his version of "That night in Amsterdam" by Moura.

But here is the issue - you mention the two games where he was good. And those two games cover 3 goals + 1 assist. In those two games he was on field combined 72 minutes. Total playing time for Spurs has been 811 minutes. With reminder of 739 minutes he has scored 0 and assisted 1. To displace Son even for rotation purposes, you have to create or score goals. Simple as. Across the season Bergwijn has not been enough of a goal threat. Son form can be up-and-down, but his longest spell in EPL without goal or assist has been 4 (!) games. So even if he is in poor form, he still delivers.

Don't get me wrong. I like Bergwijn. I've always had soft spot for Duch players - I was even hoping for Janssen to turn good way longer than I should have. And I would be over the moon if he would carry on this NT scoring form into Spurs shirt. I will be here to praise him and give him credit.

But I feel people are doing this victimising of players about "how they are unfairly treated" etc WAAAAAYYY too much and up to now it feels unreasonable. Cause Bergwijn has also been absent with injury 11 games - hardly mistreatment by manager.

A tonne of undue projection here....

Simple fact for me is that his recent performance(s) merits more playing time.

You earn your gametime by making the most of the opportunities that you're given.

......Otherwise, how can you expect any player to kick on if you're just gonna hit them with a bat that says "you were shit a year ago"?

 

[bk_spur]

Had a great intl break. Hes got plenty of talent, but seems to be at this point much more of a runner/finisher than a creator. He needs more gametime to get in a rhythm and have confidence in the spurs XI. Its gonna be difficult with our run in and need for points- Kane, Son and Kulu all starting for the foreseeable future...

 

[TheSpurEst]

A tonne of undue projection here....

Simple fact for me is that his recent performance(s) merits more playing time.

You earn your gametime by making the most of the opportunities that you're given.

......Otherwise, how can you expect any player to kick on if you're just gonna hit them with a bat that says "you were shit a year ago"?

You mean recent performances for Spurs, out of which one was 71 days ago, other 100 days ago?

Since the Leicester game he has been used in most games. Though total number of minutes he has got has been 228, I do not remember anything from those appearences that would prove he should start ahead of Kulu or Son.

National team is national team. Based on NT performances Lo Celso should have been pretty much first name on the teamsheet on midfield. None of that translated to EPL.

Once more - I have nothing against the lad. When he turned loss into a win against Leicester I shouted, ran and even cried a happy-tear. And I would be super happy for him and Spurs if he starts against Newcastle and scores a hat-trick. Just that some feedback feels way too much of overreaction to me.

 

[Airfixx]

You mean recent performances for Spurs, out of which one was 71 days ago, other 100 days ago?

Most recent performances..... I don't know when else he's supposed to prove himself.

Since the Leicester game he has been used in most games. Though total number of minutes he has got has been 228, I do not remember anything from those appearences that would prove he should start ahead of Kulu or Son.

Well you're moving the goalposts..... His cameo's being befitting of more minutes doesn't equate to me calling for him to oust someone as a starter.

Sonny hasn't been playing well however. A case can be made for Berg to have bee afforded a start to see if he can consolidate the good work from his cameos.

National team is national team. Based on NT performances Lo Celso should have been pretty much first name on the teamsheet on midfield. None of that translated to EPL.

I've not mentioned the NT in relations to Spurs.

Just pleased to see him do well for them.

Once more - I have nothing against the lad. When he turned loss into a win against Leicester I shouted, ran and even cried a happy-tear. And I would be super happy for him and Spurs if he starts against Newcastle and scores a hat-trick. Just that some feedback feels way too much of overreaction to me.

Fair enough; but of all the feedback you've chosen to debate my comments. Comments which don't marry against what you're arguing against.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Most recent performances..... I don't know when else he's supposed to prove himself.



Well you're moving the goalposts..... His cameo's being befitting of more minutes doesn't equate to me calling for him to oust someone as a starter.

Sonny hasn't been playing well however. A case can be made for Berg to have bee afforded a start to see if he can consolidate the good work from his cameos.



I've not mentioned the NT in relations to Spurs.

Just pleased to see him do well for them.



Fair enough; but of all the feedback you've chosen to debate my comments. Comments which don't marry against what you're arguing against.

Generally speaking I get your point. In terms of the comments about his treatment, I guess I answered you cause your posts had some more content . Kind of pointless to just answer to oneliner like "Conte hate Bergwijn. Stevie mad!" . So sorry - you have not been most overboard with it, my comments were opposing to general sentiment.

I think question of proving oneself- I'd say "where" is more important then "when". Eg either helping us to win in most competitive league in world or scoring in friendly games that don't decide anything... I'd pick the first.

In terms of more minutes - I am not sure, I mean he has had 20 minute cameos.
I see two scenarios
- if we are chasing equalising/winning goal, I'd argue that despite everything (form, days performance etc) Son is likelier scorer.
- if we are already leading, then the contingent here who demands more playing time to Stevie would still be unhappy and say "ah, he is brought on when everything is already decided" or smth like that .

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I like Bergwijn but I have a feeling he’s going to be out this summer.

 

[Airfixx]

I like Bergwijn but I have a feeling he’s going to be out this summer.

TBH, you'd have to wonder about the ambition of both him and Rodon if they weren't seeking more regular football at this point.

I also suspect that Conte's praise of them is just to keep them sweet until he can tweak the squad as desired in the summer.

 

[Pzabbythethird]

Performs on and off the ball. Have to feel for the lad not getting enough minutes.

 

[Kekerinho]

Happy he’s scored a goal, should give him more confidence coming off a good international spell.

 

[Beech]

Performs on and off the ball. Have to feel for the lad not getting enough minutes.

Who would you drop for him though? We all know he's far better as an impact sub than a starter.

 

[Airfixx]

Who would you drop for him though? We all know he's far better as an impact sub than a starter.

Doesn't need to a be a first team starter to get more/better game-time.

Now we have our shit together (Conte-ball); with a few improvements in the summer we should have a better European run next season and more midweek cause to rotate.... That equates to more game-time and hopefully a better quality B team and more rewarding fixtures to play a part in.

 

[rusty]

Doesn't need to a be a first team starter to get more/better game-time.

Now we have our shit together (Conte-ball); with a few improvements in the summer we should have a better European run next season and more midweek cause to rotate.... That equates to more game-time and hopefully a better quality B team and more rewarding fixtures to play a part in.

agree in what you say, the trouble is we need a second 11 and the last few seasons too many of our second 11 think playing in those games is below them

 

[thinktank]

All we are saaaaaay-ing... is give Steve a chaaance!

 

[JDK]

What a luxury to be able to bring him (and Moura too) off the bench. Could be a huge difference maker during the stretch run. I’ve always liked Stevie, he just came at a bad time and is behind a world class player in Son.

Son is behind only Salah in the league in goals scored and combined goals and assists. Tough to be the understudy to that guy, especially considering our lack of cup football this year.

Would love to keep him this summer especially if we get Europe, but will probably be tough as he’ll rightly want to play more. We’ll get a good fee at least though.

 

[Kane you believe it]

Is it me or is bergwijn looking like he's starting to develop a 'killer instinct' that he wasn't showing a year ago?

Well done to him for doing his job off the bench, deserves praise.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Is it me or is bergwijn looking like he's starting to develop a 'killer instinct' that he wasn't showing a year ago?

Well done to him for doing his job off the bench, deserves praise.

It’s Conte. He’s turned him into a goal scorer and told him the right areas to be positioned in to get the ball. All it needed was proper coaching and management.

 

[FOK]

I want so much to keep him for next season but fully understand he'll want to leave for more game time..

 

[TonySoprano]

I'd keep him but don't blame him if he wants to leave and play regularly somewhere. At least we're likely to get a decent fee for him and won't have to give him away like others.

 

[Zomb]

What a luxury to be able to bring him (and Moura too) off the bench. Could be a huge difference maker during the stretch run. I’ve always liked Stevie, he just came at a bad time and is behind a world class player in Son.

Son is behind only Salah in the league in goals scored and combined goals and assists. Tough to be the understudy to that guy, especially considering our lack of cup football this year.

Would love to keep him this summer especially if we get Europe, but will probably be tough as he’ll rightly want to play more. We’ll get a good fee at least though.

Lucas out first surely. Berg is a much more dangerous player than him