Player Djed Spence

[Deuterz]

"Conte doesn't rate him" etc. is effectively where the crystal-ball-ism/clairvoyance comes into.

I'm mostly keeping an open mind because on the surface we don't know any more than what Conte has said and I similarly have no reason to doubt the players work ethic.



Why is it so tough to have patience with the idea that he'll eventually win Conte over?

Just seems needlessly fatalistic to me.

(Granted, you're not the only one, but I choose not to waste too much time with the more intrenched trauma-hounds if I can help it.)

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Not really. It's just an opinion, same as thinking he'll win Conte over. Why are only positivity based opinions rational & ones which are negative in nature crystal balling? I don't think Conte thinks much of him based on how little he's seen the pitch so far. I might be wrong, who cares?

Because I don't really believe it. I could pretend to if that helps, idk. I think given our mini RWB crisis this season, the fact he hasn't even trusted him to be a sub option is really damning. Of course it may all turn around, but that's not what I think, so..

 

[Airfixx]

You can't transfer the player registration twice in the same season in the same league

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Ah, ok.... I didn't realise that applied to loans too.....

A good loan abroad wouldn't be a bad thing tho' if he's not in the reckoning here.... I suspect it's a valuable experience for most players of his age.

 

[Airfixx]

Not really. It's just an opinion, same as thinking he'll win Conte over. Why are only positivity based opinions rational & ones which are negative in nature crystal balling? I don't think Conte thinks much of him based on how little he's seen the pitch so far. I might be wrong, who cares?

Because I don't really believe it. I could pretend to if that helps, idk. I think given our mini RWB crisis this season, the fact he hasn't even trusted him to be a sub option is really damning. Of course it may all turn around, but that's not what I think, so..

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Question remains:

Why don't you think he can win Conte over?

- Ability?
- Work ethic?
- Politics?

It's a reasonable basis for debate, no?

"Cos he hasn't played much so far" alone; is a pretty circular, fatalistic 'prophecy'.

 

[Airfixx]

Deuterz - If you feel i'm just bustin' your balls then feel free to not reply.

 

[Deuterz]

Question remains:

Why don't you think he can win Conte over?

- Ability?
- Work ethic?
- Politics?

It's a reasonable basis for debate, no?

"Cos he hasn't played much so far" alone; is a pretty circular, fatalistic 'prophecy'.

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Because I don't think Conte wanted him in the first place & he's been almost ludicrously stubborn so far with regards to giving him any opportunities. I think by now we'd have seen signs of rating him (10-15 mins in games etc) but we haven't. At all.

Either a) he's really not as good as we thought or b) Conte didn't want him and is being a bit petty. Honestly a) would be preferable. It's not like he's a kid, he's almost Emerson's age. I find the total dearth of ANY gametime so odd if he's not total rubbish.

& I don't feel you're busting my balls. I just think the lack of time on the pitch goes beyond 'needs to learn Conte's gameplan' and leans more towards 'really just not a player he fancies' territory.

 

[Airfixx]

Because I don't think Conte wanted him in the first place & he's been almost ludicrously stubborn so far with regards to giving him any opportunities. I think by now we'd have seen signs of rating him (10-15 mins in games etc) but we haven't. At all.

Either a) he's really not as good as we thought or b) Conte didn't want him and is being a bit petty. Honestly a) would be preferable. It's not like he's a kid, he's almost Emerson's age. I find the total dearth of ANY gametime so odd if he's not total rubbish.

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Agreed. I don't relish the idea of any of our managers being that pig-headed.

& I don't feel you're busting my balls. I just think the lack of time on the pitch goes beyond 'needs to learn Conte's gameplan' and leans more towards 'really just not a player he fancies' territory.

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If so, then I suspect he's not the player a lot of people here think he is..... It should be relatively do-able to coach a bit of defensive balance into his game if the upside of his attacking game is already as strong as portrayed.

If not, then he has zero future as a FB and a future at WB only in a structurally loose set-up....... In which case maybe a Lucas role is in his future; be that here or somewhere else.


Modern football seems to have a thing for fudging players that would once have been seen as wingers into FB/WB roles. This is not always the most healthy thing for player development.

 

[Yid_1984]

All anybody here ever talks about is Spence's attacking game, but how much (if anything) do the armchair experts know of his defensive game at the highest level

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Without attacking wing backs creating chances , the season is totally going to rely on Kane to magically find goals or Son to find his form where he was carrying the team on his own. How long are we going to rely on individual brilliance. And this tactic isn't going to work against the big clubs as clearly seen.

Matches can't be won without goals and without a KDB , chances to convert will be hard to come by . Conte plays 3 at the back and with bissouma + bentancur providing additional cover to let the attacking wing backs attack... Spence is the best attacking wing back we have apart from perisic and is key to the season! He is going to free up all the players including Perisic to express themselves

 

[Airfixx]

Without attacking wing backs creating chances , the season is totally going to rely on Kane to magically find goals or Son to find his form where he was carrying the team on his own. How long are we going to rely on individual brilliance. And this tactic isn't going to work against the big clubs as clearly seen.

Matches can't be won without goals and without a KDB , chances to convert will be hard to come by . Conte plays 3 at the back and with bissouma + bentancur providing additional cover to let the attacking wing backs attack... Spence is the best attacking wing back we have apart from perisic and is key to the season! He is going to free up all the players including Perisic to express themselves

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1. Thanks for that, but this monologue says nothing of his defensive abilities, which (as much as the sexy side of the game would like to ignore) is still an important aspect of the WB role (and the focus of the post you quoted).

2. How do you account for our impressive goal tally with Emerson/Doherty so far under Conte? ...If indeed 'no Spence = no goals for Tottenham'?

 

[Maureen]

1. Thanks for that, but this monologue says nothing of his defensive abilities, which (as much as the sexy side of the game would like to ignore) is still an important aspect of the WB role.

2. How do you account for our impressive goal tally with Emerson/Doherty so far under Conte? ...If indeed 'no Spence = no goals for Tottenham'?

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10’of those goals were in 2 games v soton and Leicester. Leicester gane royal didn’t start. So I’m the rest of the games we have scored 8 in 6.
This narrative about About certain results with players is BS. It doesn’t mean we can’t play or do better? Ffs even pep says his city team have room for improvement. Too many people seem to be content purely on results so far and not we could do better. There is always room for improvement and we defo need to. Also we may actually play better with certain players. Just cos royal has been in the team and we got a scrappy 1-0 doesn’t meant that if we played say Doh or spence that it couldnt be better.

 

[Airfixx]

10’of those goals were in 2 games v soton and Leicester. Leicester gane royal didn’t start. So I’m the rest of the games we have scored 8 in 6.
This narrative about About certain results with players is BS. It doesn’t mean we can’t play or do better? Ffs even pep says his city team have room for improvement. Too many people seem to be content purely on results so far and not we could do better. There is always room for improvement and we defo need to. Also we may actually play better with certain players. Just cos royal has been in the team and we got a scrappy 1-0 doesn’t meant that if we played say Doh or spence that it couldnt be better.

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Thanks for rambling tenuous verbage at me, but Conte, Doh & Emerson have been here together since last November. We have scored a fuck load in that period.

......Get an actual grasp of my preceding comments and get back to me if you wish.

 

[bk_spur]

I think there's some politics behind him not getting a chance, Conte (I think) chose his words carefully when he described him as a "club signing" (he didn't say this about anyone else did he?)

Having said that, Conte wants to win above all else, so if he thought Spence was gonna produce he'd surely pick him. Seems like he's a player for next season, in which case maybe we should get him a loan move. Then next season, we can have him and Udogie come in and freshen up our wing-back options.

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Players older than 18 with sufficient skill ABSOLUTELY MUST be playing first team football in as competitive a league as possible so that they can maximize their potential. If Spence doesn't get any games by the winter window, he ABSOLUTELY MUST be loaned so he can continue his development. Otherwise its a massive piss-take by Conte and a huge waste of cash and time by Levy.

 

[bk_spur]

Conte doesn't have an issue playing young players, Kulusevski, Skipp, Sessegnon, they are all young. If Spence can earn Conte's trust then he is going to play. If he can't then he won't.

Conte is a very demanding man and the PL is an elite league, it will take time for Spence to adjust to this level. Just because he had two good cup matches against top PL teams last season, that doesn't mean anything. Ndombele played two good matches against City with Lyon and 3 years on he still can't hack it in the PL. We need to be patient with him.

His transfer fee and performances in the Championship don't mean anything now. If Conte looks at him in training and thinks "he's not doing what I want" then he will continue to be overlooked.

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I respect your opinion, but have to say, what can we really know about Spence until we see him get a full game with us?

Emerson and Doherty we know aren't that great because- we'll, we've seen them prove it in a lot of games.

I'd just like to see Conte start him once so we can get a look at what kind of player he really is. Persisting with mediocrity is a really bad look.

 

[bk_spur]

Presumably Doh was fit.... We already know a fit Doherty is Conte's #1 so it's no suprise to see him get the nod.



It's quite apparent that Spence & Biss have taken longer to prove themselves to Conte than the other new lads. I don't understand the need for so much projection and prediction in all this when it's s simple..... Conte doesn't deem him 'ready', but it's a long season.

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Conte isn't infallible, and thinking such is as much projection as what you charge here.

 

[bk_spur]

Question remains:

Why don't you think he can win Conte over?

- Ability?
- Work ethic?
- Politics?

It's a reasonable basis for debate, no?

"Cos he hasn't played much so far" alone; is a pretty circular, fatalistic 'prophecy'.

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I'll answer this- because Conte strikes me as a judgmental, OCD perfectionist. And for those types, if they don't get the things they want precisely, they are not only seen as of no help to them, but an unnecessary hindrance to their plans.

Look if Conte doesn't rate him, that is fine. But Levy surely fucked up if that is the case, and, it's unfair of us to hold back Spence's development just because he's now caught in Levy's web of being an investment. I hope we move him on asap if Conte won't give him a game. There's just no way he can be offensively worse than Emerson or Doherty. I have a hard time believing he'd be worse defensively either.

What happened to the last 5 years of youth development at this club, with not loaning out players at key times in their development, and now our total lack of quality club-trained depth, is shamefully bad. Spending 20m to sit a very promising kid on the bench when he needs to be playing is just stupid.

 

[bk_spur]

Without attacking wing backs creating chances , the season is totally going to rely on Kane to magically find goals or Son to find his form where he was carrying the team on his own. How long are we going to rely on individual brilliance. And this tactic isn't going to work against the big clubs as clearly seen.

Matches can't be won without goals and without a KDB , chances to convert will be hard to come by . Conte plays 3 at the back and with bissouma + bentancur providing additional cover to let the attacking wing backs attack... Spence is the best attacking wing back we have apart from perisic and is key to the season! He is going to free up all the players including Perisic to express themselves

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Great post. Also, big ups for the DB Cooper avatar.

 

[Zomb]

Without attacking wing backs creating chances , the season is totally going to rely on Kane to magically find goals or Son to find his form where he was carrying the team on his own. How long are we going to rely on individual brilliance. And this tactic isn't going to work against the big clubs as clearly seen.

Matches can't be won without goals and without a KDB , chances to convert will be hard to come by . Conte plays 3 at the back and with bissouma + bentancur providing additional cover to let the attacking wing backs attack... Spence is the best attacking wing back we have apart from perisic and is key to the season! He is going to free up all the players including Perisic to express themselves

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Agree but we’ve only got about 7 PL games before the window opens, we should have someone lined up signed and ready on 1st Jan

 

[Starks]

I imagine his first start for us will probably come against Forest in the cup.

Let's hope he takes it.

 

[Yid_1984]

Agree but we’ve only got about 7 PL games before the window opens, we should have someone lined up signed and ready on 1st Jan

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You think Levy is going to sanction another WB signing given that Conte is not even playing Spence .

Even Doherty who he has benched in favour of Royal has shown he is so much better than Royal in just one appearance, makes the theory even stronger that Spence is just being benched out of spite because Levy didn't buy him the toy he wanted.

 

[Maureen]

Was it a levy or pat signing? We were after him all summer, must have been pat.
As for this bollocks about seeing him in training what is that about.is any really suggesting that Kane, dier. Etc are flying in training? Kane just about jogs in most ganes. I think that is a red herring for basically conte. He just doesn’t want to play him it’s clear. He must have the sane training sessions as all the others. Also if royal does in training what he does matches surely he’d never be pickers
We can’t afford to buy another bloody rwb in jan we need a creative player. What is the point of relying solely on WBs for creativity? Never any teams in history who play WBs as their main source of creativity. When you think of creative players WBs don’t automatically spring to mind.
One further point everyone keeps on going about conte being a miracle worker in converting Moses to WB? Then fucking work on spence if he needs it. Whilst his at it work on the other two as well they prbly need it more especially royal.

 

[Shadydan]

You think Levy is going to sanction another WB signing given that Conte is not even playing Spence .

Even Doherty who he has benched in favour of Royal has shown he is so much better than Royal in just one appearance, makes the theory even stronger that Spence is just being benched out of spite because Levy didn't buy him the toy he wanted.

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These narratives are wild, if you knew Conte he has a history of not playing players until they are ready.