Match Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool | 6 Nov 2022 | KO 16:30 | Second Half Match Thread

[Deuterz]

You think we got played off the pitch yesterday?



These kind of sub-narratives become meaningless come the end of the season.....

In 16/17 we ended a loooong winning streak for Chelsea (and City).... They still won the league ahead of us.



Concern? Always...... Never in my 40+ years has winning big games at home been a given though.

...........At home we dropped 3 to Utd, 3 to Chavs and 2 to Pool last season.

.......Away 2 to Utd. 3 to Chavs and 2 to Pool too.

Would you prefer us to be losing to teams like Brighton, Brentford, Leeds, Forest etc? (See Chavs, Utd. Dippers)



Wait.... We lose every game now?

EPL: 8 wins / 2 draws.
CL: 3 wins / 1 draw.

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No, I think we get played off the pitch away from home in the big games. That was the point of that post.

Except that was the excuse when United and Woolwich battered us. Big away games are hard. Nobody wins them. Then we’ve lost two of them but it’s not a concern. Sorry, what?

We’ve lost 3 of the last 4. The football is dire. The results are catching up with performances, as I predicted a while ago. I do hate to keep proving the happy clappers wrong, but it keeps happening doesn’t it?

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Ajax who aren’t even top of the Eredivisie and are a shadow of the side they were a few years ago?

They lost to Leeds at Anfield more recently. And have already lost to Woolwich and United at home. And were 10th when we played them.

Oh and so many of our performances this season have been fucking dreadful, not sure what games you’ve been watching.

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I don't give a fuck about Ajax if they are good or shit, the fact is they played away and beat them just about a week ago. You said they haven't won away from home. Facts mate.

They also beat City TWICE this season so City must be fucking shit???

Stylistically we've not been a good watch (I've literally written that in my post so do you actually bother to read what people post?) but we've deserved every single point we've taken this season. We've not been fortunate or lucky.

 

[Deuterz]

I don't give a fuck about Ajax if they are good or shit, the fact is they played away and beat them just about a week ago. You said they haven't won away from home. Facts mate.

They also beat City so City must be fucking shit???

Stylistically we've not been a good watch (I've literally written that in my post so do you actually bother to read what people post?) but we've deserved every single point we've taken this season. We've not been fortunate or lucky.

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I was referring to the league.

They got a plucky win vs City by raising their game & mostly sitting in. And City have actually won some of their big games so a one off isn’t a concern.

I bother. It’s just rubbish. I guess Woolwich are still meh too, huh? The blinkers are on and they’re not coming off, I can see that.

Oh and we deserved to lose vs Marseille if we’re including CL, they had the better of us by every statistical metric.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

Stylistically we've not been a good watch (I've literally written that in my post so do you actually bother to read what people post?) but we've deserved every single point we've taken this season. We've not been fortunate or lucky.

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Not sure i agree there. Chelsea away we were extremely fortunate to get a point. Others like West Ham away, and Wolves at home debateable. Outside the opening day against Southampton i dont feel we"ve controlled a single game for longer than 30 mins.

 

[Herclueless]

Genuinely wonder if people are watching us. I've been to half a dozen games this season and seen all the others on the box. We are miles off the way we ended last season. I don't know what's happened but there are real systemic things wrong. Its clear as day. The position can only obscure so much.

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The position will only last so long as well.

Rewind to before the NLD, we weren't playing great at all but had been picking up points by the odd goal.

There are only ever two ways that things will go from there, either performances improve and tally up with the wins you're getting, or the wins by the odd goal give way to draws and defeats and you end up taking home the points that your performances deserve.

People like to point to "winning when you play badly" as some great trait that is evidence of being a top team, it isn't, top teams play well more often than not and on the occasion that they don't reach those levels they still manage to get the points regardless.

People need to get real and accept that playing badly consistently is a bad thing, it's nothing to shout about, and it isn't sustainable if you want to be at the top end of the table. This is pretty fucking basic and shouldn't even need saying.

Lord knows what has gone wrong over the summer, regardless of how you would have rated the signings, it certainly didn't feel to me as though we had weakened at all, even relative to the rest of the league. Yet somehow everything that was good about us in the run in last year has disappeared. Hopefully the WC "break" sees us sort this out, as even setting aside any desire to see us qualify for CL again or win a cup, I can't bear to watch this turgid garbage for an entire season, surely it has to improve???

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I was referring to the league.

They got a plucky win vs City by raising their game & mostly sitting in. And City have actually won some of their big games so a one off isn’t a concern.

I bother. It’s just rubbish. I guess Woolwich are still meh too, huh? The blinkers are on and they’re not coming off, I can see that.

Oh and we deserved to lose vs Marseille if we’re including CL, they had the better of us by every statistical metric.

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What does it matter if it's a league game or a CL game? It's a game of football, a recent one and they won it away from home, contrary to your claim.

They've beaten City TWICE this season. It wasn't plucky, it was a bloody good enthralling game.

I'm begging to see the problem here, this is about Woolwich, am I right? I'll leave you all alone to fester on that. Because I fail to see what they fuck they have to do with the performance on Sunday.

We completely deserved to beat Marseille. Like I said in my post, if you don't like us stylistically then fine, it's not for everyone (I don't like it) but we know what we are doing as we've repeated the same performance for a year now and Conte win % of 57%(???) is the highest of any serving Tottenham manager (who's not some interim).

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Not sure i agree there. Chelsea away we were extremely fortunate to get a point. Others like West Ham away, and Wolves at home debateable. Outside the opening day against Southampton i dont feel we"ve controlled a single game for longer than 30 mins.

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We 100% deserved a point against Chavs. They had all the play, all the ball and did very little with it. We created twice as many "big chances" as them (4). Do I think we could have taken the game to them, yes I do. We "control" most games, we do this without the ball. Seems there's confusion over our style vs results.

 

[Airfixx]

No, I think we get played off the pitch away from home in the big games. That was the point of that post.

Except that was the excuse when United and Woolwich battered us. Big away games are hard. Nobody wins them. Then we’ve lost two of them but it’s not a concern. Sorry, what?

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Only from a handful of people.... Seriously, you're getting way too bogged down in these little sub-narratives.

Quote and call out orignal proponents if you must (relatively speaking, that takes balls), but pls avoid painting us all with the same very broad brush and banging us over the head with the fringe thoughts of a few.

Utd. - We were shit.
Arse - A game of moments including a dodgy red card.

Then again, big away games aren't hard? ....What exactly are you preaching here?

We’ve lost 3 of the last 4. The football is dire.

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So we were shit yesterday then? .......Make up your mind?
Shit against Newcastle or a game fucked up by a couple of howlers?

The results are catching up with performances, as I predicted a while ago. I do hate to keep proving the happy clappers wrong, but it keeps happening doesn’t it?

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You were once above this and good for a BS-free discussion; but since the end of last season, you're seemingly more driven to shower our rivals with praise and benefit of the doubt.

Just wondering; are you still "frightened" of all the the players that that you prematurely assumed would be through the door at Chelsea? Why isn't Sterling elevating their entire front-line? Why aren't their shiny new 140 quids worth of CBs elevating them like you insisted they would? Why isn't their vastly superior squad out-performing us?

....That is if you and your Hoddle-esque faux-objectivity ARE constantly proving "happy clappers" wrong?

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

We 100% deserved a point against Chavs. They had all the play, all the ball and did very little with it. We created twice as many "big chances" as them (4). Do I think we could have taken the game to them, yes I do. We "control" most games, we do this without the ball. Seems there's confusion over our style vs results.

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Wow. Game of opinions and all that but dont agree at all. We were terrible against Chelsea. We had control in games under Conte last season which clearly we dont this season. We were tight defensively and werent giving up 10 to 20 shots a game which has been a regular occurence this season. Its chalk and cheese. Think its deluded to think this is what he wants and it would concern me even more if it was.

 

[bus-conductor]

They beat Ajax 3-0 away from home just over a week ago, let's keep to facts yeah.

There is nothing to be concerned about when you put in a decent performance and lose. There's plenty to be concerned about if you are playing shit and losing. Good job we aren't nor have we been since Conte took charge.

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The problem is, we didn't play well for the first 45 minutes in any of our last few games and as a consequence found ourselves 2 goals behind 4 times and a goal behind once.

It's very hard to call what happens in the second half a good performance because, as we all know, what happens is that a) we've got fuck all to lose then so have no choice but to take risks and b) the opponent when two goals up is far more likely to be more passive/reactive and play deeper.

What's really, really worrying is how little control we have of any of these games, how passive and lethargic we are until we have nothing to lose.

This is almost the opposite of how Conte's periodisation plan should be working, it should be us taking leads, then shelling and countering - but even when we have taken a lead, we've just completely shelled after one goal.

And even being pragmatic wouldn't be an issue if we were aggressive and did it with some intensity, tried actually winning the ball a little sooner than our own penalty spot, making it harder to counter. But we are so fucking passive and lethargic and so deep, it's just fucking awful.

 

[Airfixx]

Wow. Game of opinions and all that but dont agree at all. We were terrible against Chelsea. We had control in games under Conte last season which clearly we dont this season. We were tight defensively and werent giving up 10 to 20 shots a game which has been a regular occurence this season. Its chalk and cheese. Think its deluded to think this is what he wants and it would concern me even more if it was.

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I don't think the plan has changed since last season......

Dier & Hugo were playing at a much higher level and at the other end; Kulu, Rich, Son & Lucas's form and fitness has killed what felt like a formidable set of attacking options at the start of the season.

The ups and downs at WB are much the same and if anything the MFs are player better than ever.

 

[skywalker68]

I can’t believe what I’m reading tbh. We’re a shade better at home than a Liverpool side who are in a total mess, and it’s not a concern that we lost? At all?

FFS the whole justification for the United loss was how big away games are super hard and nobody loses them. Now we lose them and its ‘oh but we were better than Newcastle and Liverpool!’.

United are fucking mediocre and they kicked the shit out of us. THAT was an impressive home performance vs another top 6 contender. Not losing and probably deserving a bit more.

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Our record against these sides is abysmal and getting worse

 

[Deuterz]

Only from a handful of people.... Seriously, you're getting way too bogged down in these little sub-narratives.

Quote and call out orignal proponents if you must (relatively speaking, that takes balls), but pls avoid painting us all with the same very broad brush and banging us over the head with the fringe thoughts of a few.

Utd. - We were shit.
Arse - A game of moments including a dodgy red card.

Then again, big away games aren't hard? ....What exactly are you preaching here?



So we were shit yesterday then? .......Make up your mind?
Shit against Newcastle or a game fucked up by a couple of howlers?



You were once above this and good for a BS-free discussion; but since the end of last season, you're seemingly more driven to shower our rivals with praise and benefit of the doubt.

Just wondering; are you still "frightened" of all the the players that that you prematurely assumed would be through the door at Chelsea? Why isn't Sterling elevating their entire front-line? Why aren't their shiny new 140 quids worth of CBs elevating them like you insisted they would? Why isn't their vastly superior squad out-performing us?

....That is if you and your Hoddle-esque faux-objectivity ARE constantly proving "happy clappers" wrong?

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They will finish above us.

And it is. Hence all the prediction league points from predicting our mediocre asses losing every big game we play.

 

[Deuterz]

We completely deserved to beat Marseille. Like I said in my post, if you don't like us stylistically then fine, it's not for everyone (I don't like it) but we know what we are doing as we've repeated the same performance for a year now and Conte win % of 57%(???) is the highest of any serving Tottenham manager (who's not some interim).

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1.70 xG to our 0.68. 18 shots to our 7. 4 shots on target to our 2. 64% of the ball.

The fact you think we 'completely deserved' to beat them tells me a lot about your objectivity. It was a great win but by no metric that exists a 'deserved' one. We weathered storms for most of the game and were clinical.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

Genuinely wonder if people are watching us. I've been to half a dozen games this season and seen all the others on the box. We are miles off the way we ended last season. I don't know what's happened but there are real systemic things wrong. Its clear as day. The position can only obscure so much.

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This. The stuff i'm seeing, its the media, the refs, top 4 conspiracy or here's a chart to prove we're a really good team. Just watch the games, its all you need. It doesnt make you anti Conte to question this season so far and i think instead of saying how its all been fine it would be better just fronting up and saying things need to improve post world cup and he needs backing in January.

 

[Airfixx]

They will finish above us.

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We'll see.......

And it is. Hence all the prediction league points from predicting our mediocre asses losing every big game we play.

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You're doing well in a prediction league; ergo all the smoke you blew up the Chavs arse in the summer is vindicated? LOL top banter.


Sterling / Havertz / +1 = "Frightening"

 

[iz futbal]

Dier has made just 7 mistakes across 9 seasons that have led to a goal.

The rest of your post I agree with.

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That is a silly stat. It doesnt take into account the mistake when bad marking, or falling asleep leads to goals. So dont just read a stat and start believing things.

Still if you think that stat is something to pay attention to. That is the 5th highest number of mistake thats a defender has had in the history of the premier league. Only 4 other defenders have made more mistakes.

In comparison, Davinson Sanchez has a only 2 'mistakes' in his whole career. Aurier made only 1 'mistake' in his whole PL career.

 

[Deuterz]

We'll see.......



You're doing well in a prediction league; ergo all the smoke you blew up the Chavs arse in the summer is vindicated? LOL top banter.


Sterling / Havertz / +1 = "Frightening"

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That wasn't the point at all. The point is we're predictably shit, as much as you and others don't want to admit it.

Chelsea have a new coach and new ownership, what's our excuse having had such a world class summer and Conte having been settled at the club?

 

[Atomic knob]

Liverpool would have got a penalty for that push. absolutely no doubt about that.

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And, they would have got it even if it happened 2 minutes after us not getting it.

 

[bonaspur23]

We'll see.......



You're doing well in a prediction league; ergo all the smoke you blew up the Chavs arse in the summer is vindicated? LOL top banter.


Sterling / Havertz / +1 = "Frightening"

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I do like a lot of Rams opinions but I think Sterling is mediocre and he defends him as if his life depended on it.

He’s over there arguing that we didn’t deserve to win at Marseille due to the xG in their favor (fair) but then ignoring that Chelsea’s xG is absolutely horrendous. In the league, they have an xG of -4! And their expected points is 15. We are plus 7 and xPoints of 24.

But Chelsea are better and will be above us. Ok Ram :contethumb: